Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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L
Here are dc's words from his post 60908.
It is scripture and if you are too dense to understand that deeds and works of the law are one and the same then leave and quit bloviating your drivel
Stating actually for the second time that what he wrote was scripture when it was not scripture. I'm not seeking any division here, simply the truth.
It is scripture and if you are too dense to understand that deeds and works of the law are one and the same then leave and quit bloviating your drivel
Stating actually for the second time that what he wrote was scripture when it was not scripture. I'm not seeking any division here, simply the truth.
L
He may be a very good man. I don't know yet. I am simply seeking the truth here of what has happened so we can move forward in truth. Him calling another man a deceiver is a very serious charge to be making. It should not be tossed around lightly just because there is a disagreement about something.
N
well rest assured
as you already know
what he said was truth.... if thats what youre seeking
we are not justified by deeds/works
you are truely grasping at straws if you think what he did was wrong
again if tell you right now
we are saved by grace through faith and NOT of works
then you say
"oh thats not exactly scripture word for word"
i still stated a biblical truth
and thats exactly what dcon did
you are using semantics to say he claimed he was posting scripture
when in truth he posted a biblical truth
and added one synonym (same meaning) next to a "/" sign
to the verse
(a verse that uses either word depending on translation and is a direct synonym in strongs)
(.... also in a stand alone statement he doesnt claim to be posting an actual verse)
he is now a liar?
nah
youre looking to attack one member of the body of Christ
and thats not right
as you already know
what he said was truth.... if thats what youre seeking
we are not justified by deeds/works
you are truely grasping at straws if you think what he did was wrong
again if tell you right now
we are saved by grace through faith and NOT of works
then you say
"oh thats not exactly scripture word for word"
i still stated a biblical truth
and thats exactly what dcon did
you are using semantics to say he claimed he was posting scripture
when in truth he posted a biblical truth
and added one synonym (same meaning) next to a "/" sign
to the verse
(a verse that uses either word depending on translation and is a direct synonym in strongs)
(.... also in a stand alone statement he doesnt claim to be posting an actual verse)
he is now a liar?
nah
youre looking to attack one member of the body of Christ
and thats not right
N
everyone
guilty of even 1 sin
is going to hell
this is just
but God is not only just
He is loving
and has an abundance of mercy
when Jesus died on the cross
this was a sacrifice in which
He payed for every sin of the WHOLE world....
so that those who believe on Him can be seen as sinless as He is
those who are born again
are adopted children
every single sin is covered by the blood of Jesus
(all glory goes to Him)
and we who have sinned but been born again
will have the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ
our Lord and savior
we are justified by His righteousness
Romans 5:19
“For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”
praise God
Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
The will of the Father
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
These men believe in their "wonderful works" to save them... not Jesus
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
these are boasting of works because they have not submitted to His righteousness they will still have the sins they commit to answer for
He never knew them... this isnt they had and lost
__________
will of the Father?
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day
i hope this isnt too long winded my friend
romans 9
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Romans 10
10 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth
_______________
one last bump
i need to go
guilty of even 1 sin
is going to hell
this is just
but God is not only just
He is loving
and has an abundance of mercy
when Jesus died on the cross
this was a sacrifice in which
He payed for every sin of the WHOLE world....
so that those who believe on Him can be seen as sinless as He is
those who are born again
are adopted children
every single sin is covered by the blood of Jesus
(all glory goes to Him)
and we who have sinned but been born again
will have the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ
our Lord and savior
we are justified by His righteousness
Romans 5:19
“For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”
praise God
Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
The will of the Father
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
These men believe in their "wonderful works" to save them... not Jesus
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
these are boasting of works because they have not submitted to His righteousness they will still have the sins they commit to answer for
He never knew them... this isnt they had and lost
__________
will of the Father?
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day
i hope this isnt too long winded my friend
romans 9
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Romans 10
10 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth
_______________
one last bump
i need to go
L
He was wrong twice.
First he was wrong to change scripture and then say it was scripture.
Then he was way more wrong to call someone a "deceiver" who is not any deceiver.
Now, I don't know if he had a bad day or was frustrated by talking with someone else on this thread or what the problem really was. But I do know for a fact that he should not have called me any deceiver. I try extremely hard to keep to what the Bible says and not to ever deceive anyone. So, naturally I do not appreciate being called such a name. I was on another lengthy thread recently and called a bunch of names for posting exact scripture in the Bible. It seems a lot of people here are tossing name calling around and holding a lot of anger instead of discussing something in a more civil manner. Not a good thing at all.
First he was wrong to change scripture and then say it was scripture.
Then he was way more wrong to call someone a "deceiver" who is not any deceiver.
Now, I don't know if he had a bad day or was frustrated by talking with someone else on this thread or what the problem really was. But I do know for a fact that he should not have called me any deceiver. I try extremely hard to keep to what the Bible says and not to ever deceive anyone. So, naturally I do not appreciate being called such a name. I was on another lengthy thread recently and called a bunch of names for posting exact scripture in the Bible. It seems a lot of people here are tossing name calling around and holding a lot of anger instead of discussing something in a more civil manner. Not a good thing at all.
L
First he wrote words on a page. No reference to it being anything other than his own words. No verse tagging or anything, just words on a page.
Then I told him those were "his words".
Then he became upset, calling it scripture and calling me a deceiver.
Turns out I was correct that it was his words because he had changed the scripture.
Then he goes on to toss out names such as "lawyer" and "pharisee" while referring to me.
He doesn't even know what I believe regarding salvation and the Christian life afterward, because we haven't even covered that very much as of yet. But according to him, I am already a lawyer, a pharisee and a deceiver. All of which are a bunch of garbage and totally false accusations.
Then I told him those were "his words".
Then he became upset, calling it scripture and calling me a deceiver.
Turns out I was correct that it was his words because he had changed the scripture.
Then he goes on to toss out names such as "lawyer" and "pharisee" while referring to me.
He doesn't even know what I believe regarding salvation and the Christian life afterward, because we haven't even covered that very much as of yet. But according to him, I am already a lawyer, a pharisee and a deceiver. All of which are a bunch of garbage and totally false accusations.
N
here is another bump
matthew 19
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
_________
Jesus asked was telling this man how to be perfect
this man believed his works regarding the commandments were perfect (including loving his neighbor as himself)
Jesus is saying ohhhhh is that so?
then give up all your things and follow me
(to expose where this mans heart really was.... it is not evil to have possessions)
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
____________
again same principal
Luke 10
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
(again a man looking to be justified by works)
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
(this man believes he actually does this fully)
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
(Jesus says knowing this man is self righteous yaaa thats all you need then if you are correct)
29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
(as if he truely does this knowing Jesus does not believe him asks ohhh who is my neighbor maybe i am wrong mockingly)
30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
____________
that amount of money
as well as offering for excess was .... a lot of money at that time....
this exposes that man who believed he was doing these things is actually wrong......
he does not love his enemy as himself as he ought to in order to be perfect
let alone his literal neighbor....
people try to take and mix up
reproof
instruction for righteousness
the law
and works
and try to say a man needs more than grace and faith to be saved (which isnt true)
matthew 19
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
_________
Jesus asked was telling this man how to be perfect
this man believed his works regarding the commandments were perfect (including loving his neighbor as himself)
Jesus is saying ohhhhh is that so?
then give up all your things and follow me
(to expose where this mans heart really was.... it is not evil to have possessions)
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
____________
again same principal
Luke 10
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
(again a man looking to be justified by works)
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
(this man believes he actually does this fully)
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
(Jesus says knowing this man is self righteous yaaa thats all you need then if you are correct)
29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
(as if he truely does this knowing Jesus does not believe him asks ohhh who is my neighbor maybe i am wrong mockingly)
30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
____________
that amount of money
as well as offering for excess was .... a lot of money at that time....
this exposes that man who believed he was doing these things is actually wrong......
he does not love his enemy as himself as he ought to in order to be perfect
let alone his literal neighbor....
people try to take and mix up
reproof
instruction for righteousness
the law
and works
and try to say a man needs more than grace and faith to be saved (which isnt true)
Last edited by a moderator:
Yes, by the power of the Holy Spirit that we allow to work through us. The works themselves do not save but rather a manifestation of one's faith in their salvation on the shed blood of Jesus dying on the cross for their sins. Faith without works is dead. That's in James somewhere I think. I believe it to be true.
L
JAS 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
JAS 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
JAS 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
JAS 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Very few people here ever truly listen to what God has to say. I feel Him telling me to depart from here and let people proceed in the ways of their own mind.
JAS 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
JAS 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
JAS 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Very few people here ever truly listen to what God has to say. I feel Him telling me to depart from here and let people proceed in the ways of their own mind.
l...,
Neither with me....but, we are the target.
Truth be known...most of the new age religion types and interpreters are ...left wingers. Anyone who disagrees with their slanted/radical/new age religion view..... is treated as out of order and attacked. Never mind the message..they want the head/blood of the messenger.
I grew up in the 60's and saw the resentment of perceived personal restrictions that going to church and following Christ put on them. Young folks stopped going to church but, wearing a cross and professing christian status was the norm.
Proceeding thereafter we saw the re-interpretation of scriptures unfold which allowed greater latitudes of personal behavior...."tickle my ears and tell me what I want to hear"....including the same approach by church leaders ensued. Fear of G-d and the lack of interest/belief/need for righteous living and eternal salvation became of secondary interest by the majority. This included such items as;
OSAS (once saved always saved)
Repented is saved
no baptism required
baptism was automatic in mom's womb from the amniotic fluid
no need to request forgiveness of future sin...Christ already did it for me,
no need to repent....just believe
free to live the life desired without penalty,
etc.
All of which are great deceptions and when followed will cost their eternal salvation. In my way of moral thinking is a...regressive....group.
Resulting from that revolt from Christianity are many, who we have today....they call themselves ...the progressive left.
Neither with me....but, we are the target.
Truth be known...most of the new age religion types and interpreters are ...left wingers. Anyone who disagrees with their slanted/radical/new age religion view..... is treated as out of order and attacked. Never mind the message..they want the head/blood of the messenger.
I grew up in the 60's and saw the resentment of perceived personal restrictions that going to church and following Christ put on them. Young folks stopped going to church but, wearing a cross and professing christian status was the norm.
Proceeding thereafter we saw the re-interpretation of scriptures unfold which allowed greater latitudes of personal behavior...."tickle my ears and tell me what I want to hear"....including the same approach by church leaders ensued. Fear of G-d and the lack of interest/belief/need for righteous living and eternal salvation became of secondary interest by the majority. This included such items as;
OSAS (once saved always saved)
Repented is saved
no baptism required
baptism was automatic in mom's womb from the amniotic fluid
no need to request forgiveness of future sin...Christ already did it for me,
no need to repent....just believe
free to live the life desired without penalty,
etc.
All of which are great deceptions and when followed will cost their eternal salvation. In my way of moral thinking is a...regressive....group.
Resulting from that revolt from Christianity are many, who we have today....they call themselves ...the progressive left.