once saved always saved?
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ESV
20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”
NASB
20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. 22It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”
Hard Sayings of the Bible
When we read this verse in context, we recognize that the people being discussed are the false teachers whom Peter opposes. They were once orthodox Christians who were "cleansed from [their] past sins" (2 Peter 1:9), or "washed" (2 Peter 2:22). They had come to know Jesus Christ, and this was a personal knowledge that released them from "the corruption of the world," or, in Pauline language, the power of sin over them had been broken. And they had come to know "the way of righteousness" (meaning a righteous lifestyle; 2 Peter 2:21). It is not that in some way they had been taught poorly or had not experienced the power of God freeing them from the world and its desires. They had experienced all of this. They were in every way righteous and orthodox.But now they have done exactly what they are enticing others to do (2 Peter 2:18-19). They have claimed freedom, but their freedom is a freedom to live according to their desires. These desires have mastered them. They have rejected "the way of righteousness" or "the sacred command" (perhaps the teaching of Jesus or even the Old Testament standard of righteousness). They are back doing what they did before they were converted, but now they are claiming Christian justification for it.
Peter says that such people are worse off than before they were converted. He takes his words from the story in Matthew 12:45 and Luke 11:26 about the person cleansed from a demon who 730ends up in a worse state because the demon returns with seven others. The implication is that the person is in more bondage than before. Yet although verbally 2 Peter is closer to the statement about the demonized person, we are reminded even more of Luke 12:47-48, in which Jesus says that the person who does not know his master's will is beaten with few blows, while the one knowing it and still disobeying is beaten with many blows. Applied to the people in 2 Peter this indicates that the knowingly disobedient people he refers to will get a worse punishment than they would have received had they never been converted. They had been introduced to Jesus and experienced the power and freedom of his lordship, but now they have turned their backs on his teaching and are walking in willful disobedience.
20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”
NASB
20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. 22It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”
Hard Sayings of the Bible
When we read this verse in context, we recognize that the people being discussed are the false teachers whom Peter opposes. They were once orthodox Christians who were "cleansed from [their] past sins" (2 Peter 1:9), or "washed" (2 Peter 2:22). They had come to know Jesus Christ, and this was a personal knowledge that released them from "the corruption of the world," or, in Pauline language, the power of sin over them had been broken. And they had come to know "the way of righteousness" (meaning a righteous lifestyle; 2 Peter 2:21). It is not that in some way they had been taught poorly or had not experienced the power of God freeing them from the world and its desires. They had experienced all of this. They were in every way righteous and orthodox.But now they have done exactly what they are enticing others to do (2 Peter 2:18-19). They have claimed freedom, but their freedom is a freedom to live according to their desires. These desires have mastered them. They have rejected "the way of righteousness" or "the sacred command" (perhaps the teaching of Jesus or even the Old Testament standard of righteousness). They are back doing what they did before they were converted, but now they are claiming Christian justification for it.
Peter says that such people are worse off than before they were converted. He takes his words from the story in Matthew 12:45 and Luke 11:26 about the person cleansed from a demon who 730ends up in a worse state because the demon returns with seven others. The implication is that the person is in more bondage than before. Yet although verbally 2 Peter is closer to the statement about the demonized person, we are reminded even more of Luke 12:47-48, in which Jesus says that the person who does not know his master's will is beaten with few blows, while the one knowing it and still disobeying is beaten with many blows. Applied to the people in 2 Peter this indicates that the knowingly disobedient people he refers to will get a worse punishment than they would have received had they never been converted. They had been introduced to Jesus and experienced the power and freedom of his lordship, but now they have turned their backs on his teaching and are walking in willful disobedience.
D
Just popping in to say Hi to Monnkai as I'll not be able to post until late tomorrow 
Hope you're alright. Take good care, gently does it. God bless
Hope you're alright. Take good care, gently does it. God bless
But, yeah, I came back to say I was praying and properly worrying today too. lol
E
I never said god did my trusting. So try again, can you read anything wihout trying to put your little twist on it? ypu did not even respond to the scripture i posted, can you once go back and tell me what i was trying to say with sincerity and try to get it right? Or is that asking to much?
lol again, when you understand what i meant in the first part, you will understand the second, continue to missaply and understand what i said first, and you will never understand the second.
Let me try this, did your parents earn your faith by THEIR work, or by YOUR work? What would it take for you to lose faith in them? Their failutre correct? Wouod you lose faith in your parents if they never failed you? Of course not.
lol again, when you understand what i meant in the first part, you will understand the second, continue to missaply and understand what i said first, and you will never understand the second.
Let me try this, did your parents earn your faith by THEIR work, or by YOUR work? What would it take for you to lose faith in them? Their failutre correct? Wouod you lose faith in your parents if they never failed you? Of course not.
R
The argument is that a person stays saved by continuing to believe and trust in Christ, not stay saved by working to maintain it.
So how does the Galatians verse you posted show Paul saying continuing to believe to continue to be saved is you beginning in the Spirit, but then you trying to be perfected in the flesh?
"Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?"-Galatians 3:3
The perfecting of the flesh he is speaking of is trying to be perfected by doing works of the law after believing, not by continuing to trust and believe in Christ after you believe.
So how does the Galatians verse you posted show Paul saying continuing to believe to continue to be saved is you beginning in the Spirit, but then you trying to be perfected in the flesh?
"Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?"-Galatians 3:3
The perfecting of the flesh he is speaking of is trying to be perfected by doing works of the law after believing, not by continuing to trust and believe in Christ after you believe.
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E
if you have to work to conti ue to believe, you have to work to maintain it, you see it as different, reality says otherwise.
are you so foolish, having begun (the process if salvation or justification) in the spirit, are you now trying to perfect it (make complete) it in the flesh (by works)
its not rocket science.
no he is talking about completed that which they started in the spirit, they were not in the process of tryi g to be perfect, far from it, 5ey were trying to add works to the gospel of christ. the context is the gospel, the context is justification. It is not being sinless.
are you so foolish, having begun (the process if salvation or justification) in the spirit, are you now trying to perfect it (make complete) it in the flesh (by works)
its not rocket science.
no he is talking about completed that which they started in the spirit, they were not in the process of tryi g to be perfect, far from it, 5ey were trying to add works to the gospel of christ. the context is the gospel, the context is justification. It is not being sinless.
N
brother
you have shown you become broken over your own failures and weakness
you seek Him for truth and not the world
you come here knowing you arent perfect and can misunderstand things...
but you want the truth
not some garbage from man
well the absolute truth no believer can deny
is that we are saved by grace
through faith
and not of works
you no longer live as you used to but now seek Gods will in your life instead of just a constant self serving desire to feed the lusts of the flesh
you dont seek to use His grace for your pleasure
you seek to further your walk with Him
but like EVERYONE HERE
you arent perfect
i do not know everything
and my ability to see your heart is limited
but it sounds to me like you have been made new
all these brothers,sisters,neighbors and wolves here can choose to argue until their dying breath
but at the end of the day
i believe you are a born again child of God
your fruits show it
and this transformation happens in all of His children
do you believe you can stop having faith in Christ?
if you believe you can
then maybe pray for a genuine faith in Him
if you know you cannot walk away from the faith because your quickened spirit will testify of the truth
you are already sealed
and kept by the power of God
1 peter 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
you have shown you become broken over your own failures and weakness
you seek Him for truth and not the world
you come here knowing you arent perfect and can misunderstand things...
but you want the truth
not some garbage from man
well the absolute truth no believer can deny
is that we are saved by grace
through faith
and not of works
you no longer live as you used to but now seek Gods will in your life instead of just a constant self serving desire to feed the lusts of the flesh
you dont seek to use His grace for your pleasure
you seek to further your walk with Him
but like EVERYONE HERE
you arent perfect
i do not know everything
and my ability to see your heart is limited
but it sounds to me like you have been made new
all these brothers,sisters,neighbors and wolves here can choose to argue until their dying breath
but at the end of the day
i believe you are a born again child of God
your fruits show it
and this transformation happens in all of His children
do you believe you can stop having faith in Christ?
if you believe you can
then maybe pray for a genuine faith in Him
if you know you cannot walk away from the faith because your quickened spirit will testify of the truth
you are already sealed
and kept by the power of God
1 peter 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
R
Paul said the Galatians were turning back to works of the law to be justified. He did not say they were continuing to believe and trust in Christ and were therefor accursed for that reason. Believing and trusting in Christ does not constitute works of the law that can not justify. What scripture are you referencing that says continuing to believe in Christ is the equivalent of trying to be justified by works of the law? Where is faith in Christ included in the works of the law? Show us.