Should Singles and Married People Always be Segregated, Except on Sunday Morning? (Part 2.)

[seoulsearch]

Hey Everyone,

I'm sorry if the titles don't seem to "flow" together, but this is really part 2 of a train of thoughts I couldn't fit into just one introductory thread.

The inspiration for this thread is a comment I read elsewhere on the forum that it is unwise for married people to have friends who are single. I've seen and heard this belief many, many times, and can certainly understand why it seems to be the best way to handle fellowship between married and single people.

* But does this mean that married people should ALWAYS be separated from single people, except at Sunday morning service and church potlucks? After all, we all want to put on a convincing guise that we're all part of one united body of Christ for all those Instagram-worthy shots! And then then event ends... and all the singles are expected to go off in one direction, and all the marrieds go off in another.

* Once the praise, worship, lesson, or public get-together is done, should singles and marrieds all go about their own separate lives, never speaking again until the hope of another chance public event in which they might (gulp) have to interact with each other?

* Should singles and marrieds stick to their "own" groups (singles with singles, married with marrieds) throughout their entire lives?

Again, I am NOT advocating that singles form close bonds with married people (most especially) of the opposite gender at all, but what I'm hoping is that maybe others have also noticed the huge problem this seems to set up within the church community (which will be discussed in the third thread.)

* If the solution to married/single "fellowship" leaves no other choice but for singles and marrieds to be in constant, cautious segregation, how can we build a united body with two completely different groups of social dynamics that are taught to steer clear of each other?

I'm not trying to say that there are any clear or definite answers--I'm just wondering what all of you have observed, what your concerns are, and how or if things could be handled in a better way.

 

[cinder]

They need a thought provoking reaction.

 

[Dino246]

They need a thought provoking reaction.

I'm wondering at this... how it might be punctuated for different effect:

They need a thought, provoking reaction. (I like this one... because it appeals to my sense of snark).

They need a thought-provoking reaction. (Agreed, but a bit boring in light of the other version).

Anyway, my thoughts on the thread: Small groups, intentionally mixed. All openly recognize the need to be cautious, but otherwise relax and enjoy the fellowship. When gender-sensitive topics arise, the group makes a mutual decision whether to segregate temporarily.

Without wise, prayerful leadership, these groups can and do go sideways, because we're broken and hurting people trying to support other broken and hurting people.

Otherwise, unless it's an intentional gender-specific group, events should be open.

 

[Hamarr]

Hmmm.... I was thinking in my area, I'm not sure if this sort of thing is really possible. Not without shunning single people away in general. There's only one church in the area that has a singles group. I don't think many churches around here that I have been to even have Sunday school anymore. I guess they are meeting in small groups?

I guess in terms of bible study and that sort of thing, it is helpful for me to hear what married life is like. Married guys can also offer advice if I ever get around to dating. It might also be helpful for married folks to hear what it is like as a single person. I guess I am thinking of gender segregated stuff. The kids of topics I am thinking being discussed may not necessarily be appropriate for mixed company.

It is weird to think if you do get married, you "graduate" into the social circle with all of the married people? If you get divorced, you get booted out of all of your old social circles and have to slum around with the singles again? The Mormon church was very much like that. When my parents got divorced, my mom became a social pariah with all of married people. They would really only interact to do their "awww... maybe one day you'll get remarried" type comments. One of my aunts is on husband 5 or 6, depending on how you could being married to the same guy twice. When she was divorced, she would hang out with my mom a lot. As soon as she got married, she may as well have cut contact except for those patronizing remarks. She would then hang out more with my other aunt who has been married forever.

 

[Oncefallen]

The inspiration for this thread is a comment I read elsewhere on the forum that it is unwise for married people to have friends who are single. I've seen and heard this belief many, many times, and can certainly understand why it seems to be the best way to handle fellowship between married and single people.

Honestly I can't figure out why anyone would think that marrieds should never have single friends although I would agree that friendships between singles and marrieds of opposite gender should be within very strict boundaries just the same as marrieds of the opposite gender.

The church I attend is highly conservative and the only "separation" is that we have a highly active singles group (that of course does not include marrieds). Our small groups are highly integrated intentionally including younger and older, marrieds and singles in each group.

How does the wisdom of experience get passed on without integration?

 

[cinder]

Well at the risk of letting my cynicism show: Doesn't that require there be singles in the church in the first place?

On a slightly more practical note, I can see the need for gender segregated discussions, but even then I wonder if there might be some way to get more honest localized feedback. Because right now it seems that it's too easy to hear national statistics but think our little corner of super holiness is somehow immune to some issues and we end up with only generalizations and stereotypes of what we think the opposite sex is like because often we don't find any way to talk with each other about those things (or maybe married couples do a lot of talking about it and I'm just never apart of such discussions because there are plenty of things it's not right to ask people you'll see regularly but don't know very well). Of course then my imagination runs away with this idea and I can just see the church doing some sort of survey and then reporting back the three most common struggles for our men are blah blah and blah and then all the wives badgering their husbands about well did you say that? is this our problem? tell me what you said. So this idea needs to go back to the drawing board, apparently.

Anyway as to the question of whether singles and marrieds should be segregated, most churches don't have the people power or staff to intentionally segregate out singles. Instead they usually offer groups focused around different topics which tend to draw a mostly homogenous crowd and these groups are almost all geared towards marriage, family, or gender (even the Bible studies usually use a prefab curriculum that tends to focus on one of those areas). And even then, if connection is facilitated by common daily life experiences then single is far too broad a category. My own experiences include in my first job after college I was in my first professional job and part of a small group that was mostly single and could probably be classified as college and career, except that like literally everyone else was in college and / or non-career type of jobs (Fast food, on campus jobs, etc. ) I didn't find that much in common with people in that group. More recently I went to one of the last churches to still have adult sunday school classes and they had one for "women who attend church alone" that they were all sure that I would be a perfect fit in. And in some ways it might have been a good social connection point, but all of the other women in that group were 15-20 years older than me and married to unbelieving husbands or had lost a spouse, again not exactly anyone who seemed like they were going to relate much to my situation.

So we singles congregate here and probably do a whole lot more complaining than problem solving, but that may be just because we finally find someone to listen and who actually gets the whole challenge and struggle.

 

[Didymous]

When I was in Ronnie Floyd's church, the singles had a lot of activities that kept them from, I would guess, feeling too left out. That was a mega church, though. maybe smaller churches could join their singles together with those of other churches to make activities for them all?

 

[Lynx]

I have nothing to contribute here, as the people in my church go out of our way to include people. But I do understand the problem. And I am taking notes (mentally) as I never know if I will someday need to move to a different place and find a local church.

 

[ChandlerFan]

I guess I have two separate trains of thought as far as this whole discussion goes.

One train of thought is that there is truth to the statement that it is unwise for married people to have single friends. There are caveats to that statement, though. As with any relationship, there has to be boundaries. It is unwise for a married person to have opposite-sex single friends who are not also friends with their spouse, and one-on-one communication with anyone of the opposite sex who is not their spouse should be minimal. This is basic wisdom. While the statement that married people should have single friends requires some qualifications, it seems extreme to automatically jump to the idea of segregation between singles and marrieds and ask the question based on that framework. No healthy community would ever segregate in that way, so it doesn't seem like a realistic scenario to really discuss in the first place.

My second train of thought goes more along the lines of: why is it such a problem to not be super close friends with married people of the opposite sex? There is still the possibility of being good friends with single people of either gender as well as the possibility to be good friends with married people of the same gender, not to mention that you can still be friends on a basic level with married people of the opposite sex. The opportunity for close, healthy, edifying relationships abound if we are willing to take steps to pursue them. And where wise and healthy boundaries might prevent close friendship with married people of the opposite sex, we should be able to acknowledge that close friendship with them is not worth the heartache that comes from crossing boundaries of health and wisdom. To me, if there is any desire to have a close relationship with a married person of the opposite sex, it is most likely coming from that human nature-driven desire of wanting what we can't have rather than from a place of health and wisdom.

 

[seoulsearch]

After reading the replies (and thank you all very much for taking the time to answer--please continue to do so!), I'm starting to realize how limited my perspectives really might be.

I didn't even think to take into account that I've been a part of small town churches all my life, and since it's all I've ever known, these are the types of things I've encountered.

I appreciate your posts because it's helping me to see that the experiences I've had might not even be that much of an issue in larger churches with a greater number of options for people at different stages in life.

I have to wonder how much different it would be in a large church, though I have to admit I have a bit of a phobia when it comes to mega churches. I think the biggest church I ever attended with was family, and I could only take a few weeks there (with something like 5,000 members, I definitely felt lost in an ocean of other fish), and am not sure I'd ever really find a place in a huge church. Either God built me for small churches, or maybe my own window of perspective is just too narrow and needs expansion.

This opens up an entirely new set of dynamics for me -- I'm now left wondering if many of the issues that have troubled me so much throughout my entire church history are really just the result of being in relatively small churches with limited resources.

 

[Pipp]

I'm a small church person myself. We have about 35-50 people currently.

 

[Didymous]

I prefer small churches, as well, but when I was with my double ex we went to Pinnacle Hills, a very large church.

 

[Hamarr]

After reading the replies (and thank you all very much for taking the time to answer--please continue to do so!), I'm starting to realize how limited my perspectives really might be.

I didn't even think to take into account that I've been a part of small town churches all my life, and since it's all I've ever known, these are the types of things I've encountered.

I appreciate your posts because it's helping me to see that the experiences I've had might not even be that much of an issue in larger churches with a greater number of options for people at different stages in life.

I have to wonder how much different it would be in a large church, though I have to admit I have a bit of a phobia when it comes to mega churches. I think the biggest church I ever attended with was family, and I could only take a few weeks there (with something like 5,000 members, I definitely felt lost in an ocean of other fish), and am not sure I'd ever really find a place in a huge church. Either God built me for small churches, or maybe my own window of perspective is just too narrow and needs expansion.

This opens up an entirely new set of dynamics for me -- I'm now left wondering if many of the issues that have troubled me so much throughout my entire church history are really just the result of being in relatively small churches with limited resources.

I'm joining a larger church, but it does feel to some degree like being lost in the crowd. I am going to make an effort to get involved in small groups, though. When I first became Christian, I used to visit some smaller churches that had like 100 or so members on Sunday. I was there during my high school years and then drifted away after. They didn't have anything for people my age and youth group was replaced with helping kids in AWANA.

I do like being able to plug in with people more easily in smaller churches, but there was also tons of drama. Especially if you were introducing dating into things. The large churches don't really have singles stuff, except for the one of the Calvary Chapel's, but in smaller churches it felt like there wasn't even an age appropriate class once you left youth group.

 

[ChandlerFan]

There are all sorts of churches in between too. I attend a church with around 175-200 people and it is the best experience I have ever had in a church. I attended one around the same size during college as well and it was a fantastic church.