If the Serial Fornicator is More Forgiven and Accepted than the Divorced Person, Why Bother Risking Marriage?

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seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,940
4,581
113
#1
Hey Everyone,

This is a topic I've been churning around for a couple of weeks, but I'm going to first make a disclaimer: I am in NO way, shape, or form condoning, excusing, or encouraging sex outside of marriage AT ALL. But, I would like to present a few things for our CC singles community to consider and hopefully discuss in a respectful Christian manner with special consideration to the young teens who also visit this forum.

This is the kind of discussion I wish my church elders would have had with me when I was a young adult.

We singles know that being alone sucks. But we also know all too well that if we long for an intimate relationship that includes both body and spirit, the only option we have is to get married. And how many times have all of us heard, "It's better to marry than to burn with passion!" (1 Corinthians 7:9.)

Here's the part I wish people would be more specific about: a Christian single gets ONE, and only ONE chance at this. With virtually every other sin, you can be forgiven and start over, but NOT. WITH. MARRIAGE. Sure, they say there are a few exceptions (when an unbeliever leaves, or if your spouse cheats on you), but even then, many Christians will tell you that you can NEVER marry again because that would be adultery.

Please understand. I'm NOT trying to argue with the Bible, and the point of this thread is NOT meant to be an argument about remarriage -- I will always encourage following God's commands and personal convictions.

However, if you find yourself in a marriage that doesn't stay together, for whatever reason that is not defined as a Biblical reason, whether your spouse is having online affairs (because some will say you still can't leave unless it's actual physical sex), whether the marriage is abusive, whether your spouse refuses to have sex with you or wants sex in a way you don't want, whether your believing spouse leaves you - you have literally just kissed your ONE Biblical chance for romantic love and intimacy goodbye, never to be seen again, because there are NO more chances.

In fact, as I said in another thread (with EXTREME, purposeful sarcasm), the "best" thing you can hope for is that your spouse actually "does" physically cheat on you so that you can at least have a Biblical divorce, and even then, people will assume you are a sinful screw-up who couldn't even hold a marriage together (that's what I was told, at least.) Should I feel "blessed" that "at least" my unbelieving ex not only left but married someone else so that I supposedly had an official Biblical divorce?

And here is why I'm frustrated. As part of the divorced Christian community for 20 years, I have seen this over and over again: a single mom/dad who has 4 children by 4 different moms/dads who is now trying to live a repentant Christian life is seen as perfectly eligible for marriage, and possibly even a church leadership position, which is wonderful.

The person who's slept with 20 people but never married any of them and repents is welcomed with open arms and a pep talk about how we have a God of forgiveness and new beginnings, praise the Lord!

But the person who was married, and maybe that was the only partner they ever had, is ostracized from all of this. They can't marry. They can't hold a church position, lest they influence anyone else with their terrible evil of not being able to uphold the sanctity of marriage, even when it was their spouse who chose to leave them.

* Why is there this huge distinction between people who have repeatedly fornicated but never married, and those who actually did choose to marry?

* And, if this is how it is, what would be the reason to choose to marry in the first place? Because if the person who slept with all these people had married even one of them, they would then be in the same boat as the divorced person - but as long as they don't marry anyone, they can repent and have every door opened for them.

Again, I am NOT trying to encourage going against God's commands AT ALL. I am NOT trying to promote any kind of sexual activity outside of marriage, period. I am also NOT trying to condemn anyone who may have had multiple sexual relationships with or without marriage, because we all need Christ's redemption.

BUT, this is something I personally ask God all the time: People are going to sin, even when they try their hardest not to, so is it worse to risk the sins someone might commit as a single, repent, and start over, or would You rather have us risk getting married instead? Because if we fail at that or someone fails us, we are forever quarantined because of it.


I know the obvious answer to this question is that we should obey God no matter what the risks might be, but what I'm really asking for here are for your own thoughts, experiences, and observations.

I know this will probably be a hot-button topic so I'm hoping at the very least, it will remain respectful.

We're all in this together... Many thanks for your respectful participation in advance!
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,243
16,252
113
69
Tennessee
#3
My rule is, and based on scripture is that if God did not in fact join the couple together than there was never a marriage in the first place in the eyes of God. What God has joined together may no one put asunder. The thing is, not everyone who is married was joined together by God. As there was no spiritual marriage in the eyes of God then this person is free to marry regardless of the reason for the divorce.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,821
8,596
113
#4
I don't know if it's your Church, or where, but those thoughts don't seem right to me. God's Grace is sufficient.

Are YOU judging yourself, or are others judging you, or are you just perceiving that others are judging you?

Your'e ok sister. Feel perfectly free to find someone. Fall in love. Get married. Serve the Lord in any capacity He leads you to.

Do not be help captive to either yourself, or others any longer. Be Blessed.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,940
4,581
113
#5
The other reason this topic weighs on my mind is because in the 10 years I've been on CC, and the even longer time I've been on Christian sites, I have had quite a few Christian males tell me that as a divorced woman, I have no business posting in the Singles Forum, and would cause any man who might be interested in talking to me to commit adultery.

I am then flooded with a barrage of passages as to why I am to remain single and alone forever. (Believe me, I'm only about half a step away from being convinced, but I still get these silly glimmers of hope now and then.)

I understand. Many of these men have also only been Christians for a few years and are looking for ways to exert their spiritual leadership.

Do Christian men find Christian women telling them the same things?

And the most ironic part to me is that when you talk to some of these people (I'm going to say "people", because I know it happens with both men and women), they've had their own experiences. One person I talked to a long time ago couldn't even remember how many sexual partner they'd had. They had guessed "somewhere around 26" - and that was 20 years ago, so I'm sure the numbers are much higher now. You see, they had decided, "When I marry, I don't want to have any regrets or feel like I left any stone unturned. I'm going to experience it all while I can before I get married." And that is exactly what they did, even traveling to big cities to seek out things that couldn't be found elsewhere. When I knew this person, they were moving on to another large city, in hopes of finding something new among the night life.

This person knew the Bible ten times better than me.

And in this person's eyes, and perhaps even in the eyes of God... They are the one who is eligible to marry, not me.

Even if someone isn't having "real" sex with "real" people, what about those who are having virtual sex with limitless partners and limitless opportunities on a regular basis, whether online, through movies and media, or virtual reality? But yet, that person can ask for forgiveness at any time, and, if God chooses, even marry the next day.

But not me (according to them, at least), and not any of the many others I know who are in similar situations.



May God have mercy on us all.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
13,320
113
#6
Well said, SS! You hit the nail on the head. It stinks being divorced in the church. I've seen it firsthand... allegedly-repentant serial adulterers being welcomed with open arms while divorce victims are quietly ignored, sidelined, and shunned. I suspect that most people who haven't been through a divorce (or near one) simply don't know how to process the situation so much of the silence is from discomfort rather than outright rejection. Because of that, divorce victims feel like they have a contagious disease... at best.

I think the problem people have is that while they may view divorce as forgiveable, the decision to remarry is viewed (from a distance) as a conscious choice to commit a serious sin (adultery) and so people avoid the topic (and the person) instead of chewing the meat of the issue for themselves. As with most things biblical, a few proof texts are all that is needed to affirm their preconcieved views. Sound exegesis is something for pastors and scholars.

The church I attend has several divorced folks and several remarrieds. I look at it this way: I don't know their situations, so it's not my place to judge them. Similarly, I have told very few people my story so either word gets around quietly or people don't know and don't care.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,243
16,252
113
69
Tennessee
#7
I don't know if it's your Church, or where, but those thoughts don't seem right to me. God's Grace is sufficient.

Are YOU judging yourself, or are others judging you, or are you just perceiving that others are judging you?

Your'e ok sister. Feel perfectly free to find someone. Fall in love. Get married. Serve the Lord in any capacity He leads you to.

Do not be help captive to either yourself, or others any longer. Be Blessed.
I fully concur. She is a sweetheart and deserves a loving and faithful husband if that is what she desires. There would be absolutely no sin involved but rather the love of God in the formation of such a relationship. Yes, God's grace is always sufficient.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,940
4,581
113
#8
My rule is, and based on scripture is that if God did not in fact join the couple together than there was never a marriage in the first place in the eyes of God. What God has joined together may no one put asunder. The thing is, not everyone who is married was joined together by God. As there was no spiritual marriage in the eyes of God then this person is free to marry regardless of the reason for the divorce.

I have always wondered this as well, Tourist.

We are all told multiple times that God hates divorce - I would imagine He also hates it when people marry outside His approval as well.

This is NOT meant to advocate for divorce. I personally believe that God would say, "Ok, with or without my blessing, this is what you chose, so stick with it," but that's just me.

I appreciate you sharing this!


I don't know if it's your Church, or where, but those thoughts don't seem right to me. God's Grace is sufficient.

Are YOU judging yourself, or are others judging you, or are you just perceiving that others are judging you?

Your'e ok sister. Feel perfectly free to find someone. Fall in love. Get married. Serve the Lord in any capacity He leads you to.

Do not be help captive to either yourself, or others any longer. Be Blessed.

Thank you for always showing wisdom and a willingness to hear people out, Ed. (I hope the post I just wrote answers your questions - thank you very much for asking.)

We appreciate your encouragement here in Singles. :)
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,940
4,581
113
#9
I fully concur. She is a sweetheart and deserves a loving and faithful husband if that is what she desires. There would be absolutely no sin involved but rather the love of God in the formation of such a relationship. Yes, God's grace is always sufficient.
I appreciate yours and Ed's kind, considerate comments, Tourist. It's so awesome to see married people here who can lead an encourage us.

I was devastated by my divorce and, since we didn't have children, the only thing that kept me going was the hope that maybe, just maybe, I'd get another chance someday.

I can't claim to know God's plan for me, but admittedly, the years have worn me down (I realize though that sometimes this is exactly where God wants us!)

With so much time passing and "nothing" happening, I sometimes wonder if maybe that IS God's answer for me, and maybe I'm not meant to marry - not because I Biblically couldn't, but because God has a different plan for my life. Either way, I pray He gives me the grace to walk through it.

Thank you again for being here (along with Ed and all our married friends.) You give us all hope. :)
 

Didymous

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
5,047
2,099
113
#10
Hey Everyone,

This is a topic I've been churning around for a couple of weeks, but I'm going to first make a disclaimer: I am in NO way, shape, or form condoning, excusing, or encouraging sex outside of marriage AT ALL. But, I would like to present a few things for our CC singles community to consider and hopefully discuss in a respectful Christian manner with special consideration to the young teens who also visit this forum.

This is the kind of discussion I wish my church elders would have had with me when I was a young adult.

We singles know that being alone sucks. But we also know all too well that if we long for an intimate relationship that includes both body and spirit, the only option we have is to get married. And how many times have all of us heard, "It's better to marry than to burn with passion!" (1 Corinthians 7:9.)

Here's the part I wish people would be more specific about: a Christian single gets ONE, and only ONE chance at this. With virtually every other sin, you can be forgiven and start over, but NOT. WITH. MARRIAGE. Sure, they say there are a few exceptions (when an unbeliever leaves, or if your spouse cheats on you), but even then, many Christians will tell you that you can NEVER marry again because that would be adultery.

Please understand. I'm NOT trying to argue with the Bible, and the point of this thread is NOT meant to be an argument about remarriage -- I will always encourage following God's commands and personal convictions.

However, if you find yourself in a marriage that doesn't stay together, for whatever reason that is not defined as a Biblical reason, whether your spouse is having online affairs (because some will say you still can't leave unless it's actual physical sex), whether the marriage is abusive, whether your spouse refuses to have sex with you or wants sex in a way you don't want, whether your believing spouse leaves you - you have literally just kissed your ONE Biblical chance for romantic love and intimacy goodbye, never to be seen again, because there are NO more chances.

In fact, as I said in another thread (with EXTREME, purposeful sarcasm), the "best" thing you can hope for is that your spouse actually "does" physically cheat on you so that you can at least have a Biblical divorce, and even then, people will assume you are a sinful screw-up who couldn't even hold a marriage together (that's what I was told, at least.) Should I feel "blessed" that "at least" my unbelieving ex not only left but married someone else so that I supposedly had an official Biblical divorce?

And here is why I'm frustrated. As part of the divorced Christian community for 20 years, I have seen this over and over again: a single mom/dad who has 4 children by 4 different moms/dads who is now trying to live a repentant Christian life is seen as perfectly eligible for marriage, and possibly even a church leadership position, which is wonderful.

The person who's slept with 20 people but never married any of them and repents is welcomed with open arms and a pep talk about how we have a God of forgiveness and new beginnings, praise the Lord!

But the person who was married, and maybe that was the only partner they ever had, is ostracized from all of this. They can't marry. They can't hold a church position, lest they influence anyone else with their terrible evil of not being able to uphold the sanctity of marriage, even when it was their spouse who chose to leave them.

* Why is there this huge distinction between people who have repeatedly fornicated but never married, and those who actually did choose to marry?

* And, if this is how it is, what would be the reason to choose to marry in the first place? Because if the person who slept with all these people had married even one of them, they would then be in the same boat as the divorced person - but as long as they don't marry anyone, they can repent and have every door opened for them.

Again, I am NOT trying to encourage going against God's commands AT ALL. I am NOT trying to promote any kind of sexual activity outside of marriage, period. I am also NOT trying to condemn anyone who may have had multiple sexual relationships with or without marriage, because we all need Christ's redemption.

BUT, this is something I personally ask God all the time: People are going to sin, even when they try their hardest not to, so is it worse to risk the sins someone might commit as a single, repent, and start over, or would You rather have us risk getting married instead? Because if we fail at that or someone fails us, we are forever quarantined because of it.

I know the obvious answer to this question is that we should obey God no matter what the risks might be, but what I'm really asking for here are for your own thoughts, experiences, and observations.

I know this will probably be a hot-button topic so I'm hoping at the very least, it will remain respectful.

We're all in this together... Many thanks for your respectful participation in advance!
Having done all of the above, I've learned that God forgives fornication and divorce. I'm pretty sure he's ok with remarriage too. If you're in a church that does all you say-then maybe it's time for a new church? I guess if you blasphemed the Holy Spirit or did whatever the unpardonable sin is while divorcing, then you'd have a problem. I'm guessing it didn't go down like that, however, so remarry and be happy! On a side note, your threads get more and more interesting!
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,940
4,581
113
#11
On a side note, your threads get more and more interesting!
You probably have my old Lutheran school restrictions to thank for that. :)

There are many subjects I wish I could post about, and I've always been known to be a bit controversial, but I also have to think about how the discussions can be kept G-rated for the sake of the youngsters who come here.

I have always been the type of person who runs straight into the most turbulent part of the emotional storm.

The latest "series" I've been wanting to post about is how Christians can or should prepare themselves for marriage when they have an abusive past, and/or are marrying someone who has been abused.

I know there is a lot of thought within the Christian community that people just don't try hard enough to make marriages work, but I have always liked talking to people about real life vs. the mask we put on for others, and there are so many other factors going on behind the scenes.

People often talk to me about the sexual abuse they've gone through. The good Christian advice would be to talk over everything before you get married, but many people don't , or have, and found that it didn't help, or maybe don't even know what might go wrong until after they get married. I once talked to a young person who was thankful for their loving, Christian spouse, but found that a part of them had been conditioned from their childhood abuse, and it was greatly affecting their marriage. They really had no way of knowing this until after they married.

These are the kinds of topics I think people are dying to talk about (and are emotionally dying from), but on a family-friendly forum on which all ages have all access at all times, as much as I want to bring these discussions to the floor, I'd have to think of a way to do so in a manner that a parent would feel comfortable letting their child read.
 

Didymous

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
5,047
2,099
113
#12
I've told you before that you're a strong woman-which I still believe. Hopefully you'll find a way to do that. :cool:
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,940
4,581
113
#13
I've told you before that you're a strong woman-which I still believe. Hopefully you'll find a way to do that. :cool:
Well, every strong woman needs stronger friends. :)

These threads actually drain the life out of me (not because of all the wonderful people who contribute, but because of all the time and energy I spend trying to outline, word, and re-word everything) so that's why I'm so sporadic at it... I have to capture that little lightning bolt of mental energy while it's there.

Many times, I wish I had someone to dictate my thoughts to, or have a discussion with friends who would take turns writing them all out, because it exhausts me the way a runner feels after a marathon.

But I have always felt that these kinds of topics are important to talk about, and hopefully, help others to know they aren't alone in their struggles.

Although I'm sure most people had good intentions, I was patted on the head and given a handy set of memorized, all-occasions passages so many times, I continuously prayed to God, "Please. When You get me through this, please make me into something different, even if it's something that some people might not like."

Of course, I applaud those who know the Bible well.

It's just that I always wanted to combine that with the assurance that it's ok to talk about our real lives.... as we're going through them.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#14
The other reason this topic weighs on my mind is because in the 10 years I've been on CC, and the even longer time I've been on Christian sites, I have had quite a few Christian males tell me that as a divorced woman, I have no business posting in the Singles Forum, and would cause any man who might be interested in talking to me to commit adultery.

I am then flooded with a barrage of passages as to why I am to remain single and alone forever. (Believe me, I'm only about half a step away from being convinced, but I still get these silly glimmers of hope now and then.)

I understand. Many of these men have also only been Christians for a few years and are looking for ways to exert their spiritual leadership.

Do Christian men find Christian women telling them the same things?

And the most ironic part to me is that when you talk to some of these people (I'm going to say "people", because I know it happens with both men and women), they've had their own experiences. One person I talked to a long time ago couldn't even remember how many sexual partner they'd had. They had guessed "somewhere around 26" - and that was 20 years ago, so I'm sure the numbers are much higher now. You see, they had decided, "When I marry, I don't want to have any regrets or feel like I left any stone unturned. I'm going to experience it all while I can before I get married." And that is exactly what they did, even traveling to big cities to seek out things that couldn't be found elsewhere. When I knew this person, they were moving on to another large city, in hopes of finding something new among the night life.

This person knew the Bible ten times better than me.

And in this person's eyes, and perhaps even in the eyes of God... They are the one who is eligible to marry, not me.

Even if someone isn't having "real" sex with "real" people, what about those who are having virtual sex with limitless partners and limitless opportunities on a regular basis, whether online, through movies and media, or virtual reality? But yet, that person can ask for forgiveness at any time, and, if God chooses, even marry the next day.

But not me (according to them, at least), and not any of the many others I know who are in similar situations.


May God have mercy on us all.
An Assembly Of God affiliated church where I was a member asked me to leave when my bipolar ex-wife divorced me. They had the part down pat about getting divorced or marrying a divorced person is adultery and we were not welcome there. They skipped the part about any man who looks upon another woman already committed adultery his heart, and the critics walked away speechless. They were hypocrites, that were trying to trick Jesus that is, but the object lesson went right over my former pastors head.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,940
4,581
113
#15
An Assembly Of God affiliated church where I was a member asked me to leave when my bipolar ex-wife divorced me. They had the part down pat about getting divorced or marrying a divorced person is adultery and we were not welcome there. They skipped the part about any man who looks upon another woman already committed adultery his heart, and the critics walked away speechless. They were hypocrites, that were trying to trick Jesus that is, but the object lesson went right over my former pastors head.
I'm very sorry you were treated this way, Calibob.

I've been so happy to read that you've found a very special lady here. :love:

I have always wondered about this passage too, because I believe what Jesus was trying to say is that no one is exempt from some kind of sexual sin, and the Pharisees thought they had kept God's laws (and didn't need a Savior) because they hadn't physically murdered or committed adultery.

Jesus was telling them, "Yes, you have."

Which would leave one wondering, who actually WOULD qualify for marriage... (Though I have heard the argument many times that only a married person can commit adultery, and fornication is defined as something other than unmarried sex, so I have heard of people arguing that whatever sexual sins an unmarried person commits isn't actually sin.) :rolleyes:

I went to a Lutheran high school.

No one tries to argue their way around "NO SEX OUTSIDE OF MARRIANGE" than a group of hormone-laden, Scripturally-spoon fed teenagers.
 
R

RodB65

Guest
#16
But these same folk in Church leadership gladly take the tithe of them divorced folk. They don't turn it away...
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
13,320
113
#17
...
People often talk to me about the sexual abuse they've gone through. The good Christian advice would be to talk over everything before you get married, but many people don't , or have, and found that it didn't help, or maybe don't even know what might go wrong until after they get married. I once talked to a young person who was thankful for their loving, Christian spouse, but found that a part of them had been conditioned from their childhood abuse, and it was greatly affecting their marriage. They really had no way of knowing this until after they married.
I lived that nightmare. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
13,320
113
#18
An Assembly Of God affiliated church where I was a member asked me to leave when my bipolar ex-wife divorced me. They had the part down pat about getting divorced or marrying a divorced person is adultery and we were not welcome there. They skipped the part about any man who looks upon another woman already committed adultery his heart, and the critics walked away speechless. They were hypocrites, that were trying to trick Jesus that is, but the object lesson went right over my former pastors head.
Just... wow. I hope you shook the dust off your feet--publicly--as you left.
 
R

RodB65

Guest
#19
I was raised AoG, and I love them... But if you are divorced, you need to proclaim "Unclean... Unclean" as you walk through the congregation.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,940
4,581
113
#20
I also wanted to stress that this thread is NOT to try to argue that all divorced people should be free to remarry, because if God doesn't want some of us to remarry, we can't argue with that.

But I also personally believe that it is often a case-by-case basis that's between anyone involved, wise spiritual elders/pastors, and the Lord.

In my own situation, when my husband left, I didn't know he had a girlfriend. Although he was an unbeliever, I didn't find out until after he left and the divorce was finalized (a friend called me in the middle of the night and told me, because she had seen them together, and they had announced their relationship publicly.)

I have always felt sorry for believing Christians whose believing spouses leave them and then they are told they don't have a Biblical reason for divorce, because they could be in the exact same situation I was. Their spouse might very well be cheating on them, it's just that no one had been able to catch them. And if anyone who looks at another person with lust is committing adultery, pretty much everyone, in some way, has committed this sin.

I believe that above all else, God's Word and commands should be upheld.

However, this thread is like a page ripped out of the personal emotional journal to God about some of my own observations regarding how the divorced are treated in the church, vs. those who sleep with whomever they want (or view anything they choose), and are accepted as marital or leadership candidates as long as they repent.