New violence of the Holy Spirit?

[Baruch]

I thank the Lord, RoaringKitten, that He has sent you here to warn out of love for those going astray. Some may hear, give pause, and start praying for discernment while others may not hear and just follow the crowd.

From the practical standpoint: if healings are being done by punching... then why are there bruises? Would it not include the bruises?

So let us consider more scriptures to help discern if there be any applicable as to why God would not choose this route.

Titus 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

A bishop cannot particpate if this be of the Lord. Again.... the office is declared:

1 Timothy 3:1This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

What about everyday believers?

2 Corinthians 11:19For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise.
20For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face.

If believers are so instructed plainly by His Word against such actions, how then can God take this route?

Answer: He would not. Then neither should we.

Believers may accept that God is known to be violent, but they forget the promise in His invitation in coming to Jesus.

Matthew 11:28Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

If this invitation in coming to the Holy Spirit results in a beating or being slained, then maybe we should reconsider the specificty in how we approach God the Father.. and that is through the Son to avoid false prophets and false spirits.

John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber....

7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. 11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

Does any believer really think that God would have Himself represented by having a beating for all those that come to Him? It goes against the promise in the invitation Jesus gave towards Himself, but this beating is not towards Himself, but towards the "Spirit". Red flag anyone? How can this not be seen as climbing up another way? How can anyone say that by placing the Holy Spirit inbetween us and Jesus doesn't define Him as the thief?

The Holy Spirit is in us so as to avoid that description of the thief. He is also in us to avoid being felt outside in the worship place where other spirits dwell, because it is by Him dwelling in us is how we get to know Him.... and that is all we shall know of Him for He will not speak of Himself, but to testify of Jesus Christ and thereby glorify the Son.

And since the Holy Spirit is in us pointing us towards the Son, and the scriptures are testifying of the Son, then so should we if we are led by the Spirit of God to keep our eyes on the Good Shepherd in following Jesus: our first love.. the Bridegroom.

Take your eyes off of Jesus... and yeah... you are liable to get a beating... in more ways than one.

 

[Piano_hero]

Except there's never been any documented healings from Hinn.

have there ever been any documented healing from anyone ?

Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS '?"If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),why do you say that I'm dishonoring God because I said, 'I'm the Son of God'? God set me apart for this holy purpose and has sent me into the world.

"Thus saith Jehovah to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him, and I will loose the loins of kings; to open the doors before him, and the gates shall not be shut:"
hebrew word translated as "anointed"
to his anointed
mashiyach (maw-shee'-akh)
anointed; usually a consecrated person (as a king, priest, or saint); specifically, the Messiah -- anointed, Messiah.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Except there's never been any documented healings from Hinn

.

A few reasons:

if someone is healed, they generally are so happy don't want to bother paying money to go to get documented or verified or whatever.

I've been in the crusades and seen people healed and I've been healed myself.

That's enough documentation for me.

 

[Baruch]

.

A few reasons:

if someone is healed, they generally are so happy don't want to bother paying money to go to get documented or verified or whatever.

I've been in the crusades and seen people healed and I've been healed myself.

That's enough documentation for me.

I've been to crusades and saw "healings" also, but appearances can be deceiving.

Ernest Angeley was the one I had gone to back in high school. I went to his healing crusade for two nights as my folks brought me and my brother, Matt, to it.

He would point out in the audience and prophesy someone being healed of something and then point to another.. like that. Some would go up for the whooing of the coming of the Holy Spirit for this healing to occur. I did on my last night there. He stick his fingers in my ears and whooed them, but nothing happened the first time. Rising disappointment as he tried again... next time, I could feel vibration in my deaf ear, but that was it, but apparantly, that was enough for the congregation to applaud. I was led back to my seat. On the way home I still felt that tickling in my ear as I prayed for the Lord to heal me fully.

The next day after school, I was unusually tired all of a sudden and so I took a nap. When I awaoke, I could not move. There was an electrical humming in the air as I found myself weighted down. I began praying to Jesus for help. Then I was able to flick my right wrist. Then the other. Then I was able to lift my right hand, and then the other. Then i was able to lift the right forearm off the bed but plopped down from the heaviness and then I did the other arm. And by the time I lifted my right shoulder off of the bed, the heaviness left me as I was able to voice my groaning from the effort.

Now I know why Jesus said this.....

Matthew 24:23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before. 26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

One just doesn't know what spirit will be following you home.

Incidentally, my brother, Matt, began hearing voices sometime after that. I cannot say it is connected, but my horrendous event is for I have seen in the latter 90's of people being pinned down by the "Holy Ghost" on television.. some would be struck mute in mid-sentence as the assembly applauded in awe of that.... and it was then that I made the connection of what had transpired upon me back then.

Just because you see "healing", doesn't mean it is really happening.

Some testified of these "healings" as temporary.. others.. fake.. others.. they were healed but they got something else in its place.....

Try to remember those that got healed and look them up. You may find some shocking trend when you research this. Somebody else has done it, and has a web site... but then again, those involved in it such as yourself, should research the results themselves since most people will disbelieve a web site based on what they believe they know... or they think they know.

Do consider this... if you agree that there are some movements of the "Spirit" that are not of the Lord, then ask yourself how come their method of calling for the Holy Spirit is the same as everybody else's method and everybody is getting different results?

Matthew 7: 15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

So while you are asking the Lord Jesus for wisdom on this, consider this as well as the solution for avoiding those false prophets.. aka false spirits.

Matthew 7: 13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Again... this is for those that are already believers....

Luke 13:24Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Ernest Angeley his finger in the ear thing doesn't sound right, sounds off to me.

Benny Hinn doesn't do anything like that as far as I'm aware. All Hinn does is a big crowd of people seeking and worshipping God by faith.

The next day after school, I was unusually tired all of a sudden and so I took a nap. When I awaoke, I could not move. There was an electrical humming in the air as I found myself weighted down. I began praying to Jesus for help. Then I was able to flick my right wrist. Then the other. Then I was able to lift my right hand, and then the other. Then i was able to lift the right forearm off the bed but plopped down from the heaviness and then I did the other arm. And by the time I lifted my right shoulder off of the bed, the heaviness left me as I was able to voice my groaning from the effort.

With being pinned down, it may not be the Spirit but it also could be one of God's angels pinning someone down as a kind of restraint. That's usually not a good thing though. Or as you say it could be a wrong spirit doing that.

But given that it occurred upon awakening , it sounds like a type of "lucid dream" to me, or it has a proper name I think I forget, a psychological phenomena. It sometimes occurs to me after intense prayer time on going to sleep, or possibly upon awakening after intense prayer time. I think it can be induced by strong emotion particularly if we are desperately and fervently seeking God in prayer. Sometimes it can lead to a feeling of coming out of your body or even an actual out of body experience
and it can be scary I agree.

People into new age and occult things like TM and astral projection purposefully try and get themselves into these states by altering their brain state.

But that's not to say that a Christian who spends a lot of time seeking God in prayer may not also achieve such a state.
Trances are biblical, usually occuring durnig prayer time, eg Acts 22:17, and Acts11:5, while he was praying, he fell into this kind of ecstatic state. God can use these times to speak more clearly to us. Unfortunately so can the devil. For some reason it is easier for God to speak to us during dreams or trances etc than if our mind is active focussed on other things. Or we may become more aware of the spiritual world around us either angels or demons, depending.

 

[MahogonySnail]

I remember now whawt it's called, it's called "Sleep paralyses". It's a known phenomena. Here's more info about it:

http://www.stanford.edu/~dement/paralysis.html

And I know that noises in the ear, or seeing images or visions, or even hearing voices ( i used to hear voices with it sometimes) is also common with it.

 

[leendert]

Jesus healed many poeple of illness. But that is missing the point ,He did not come to heal us of phisycal illnesses but to save us from sin and to pay the price of sin for us.If you go to church just to be healed you are sadly missing the whole plot

 

[MahogonySnail]

And in many cases sin and sickness are related, c.f. "your sins are forgiven you" when Jesus healed people.

 

[Aliciaforjesus]

The word says signs and wonders follow those that believe!

You should be asking yourself, why are there not signs and wonders following me?

It has nothing to do with you, with our goodness, it has to do with who you believe, Jesus!

Jesus is the same yesturday, today and forever!

If we share Jesus, the Holy Spirit moves, Jesus get the glory!

The disciples came to Jesus one time and told him that others were useing His name to cast out demons,
he said leave them alone.

Right before Jesus went to heaven he asked Peter three times if he Loved Him and then told him of his future.

Then Peter seeing the disciple that Jesus loved asked Jesus what about him,

Jesus said, what is it to you?

If I wanted him to live until I return!

Do not worry about things that are wrong with others!

Be concerned about You!

Make sure that you believe in the right thing!

And then Love others the way the word says.

Focus on Jesus!

The word will come alive if the focus is right.

We don't have to work at it.

 

[KingdomGeneration]

Jesus healed many poeple of illness. But that is missing the point ,He did not come to heal us of phisycal illnesses but to save us from sin and to pay the price of sin for us.If you go to church just to be healed you are sadly missing the whole plot

We don't go seeking signs however, Alicia is correct, Jesus Himself says signs and wonders shall follow those who believe.

The problem is that there are basically two types of christians today. Those who just believe in God, whom I like to refer to as "casual christians". And there are those who actually dare to believe God in every aspect of there lives, I like to call them "committed christians".

The difference between the two is simple. The casual christian goes to church on Sunday and Wednesday. They may even volunteer or actually head up various activities or ministries around the church. They are good people and there hearts may be sincere however, their problem is that God is just a part of their life.

The committed christian is a completely different person altogether. These people don't necessarily have to go to church (although they are ussually there bright and early) to find God because they understand that they themselves are the tabernacle of the Lord. God is more than just part of their their life, God is the focal point of their life. God is the first thing they consider in every thought that is entertained, every word spoken, and in every action taken. These people are far from perfect however, they possess a deep burning for God that overwhealms all other desires in their lives. That desire is called faith, the kind of faith that God Himself gives full consideration as righteousness. These are the christians who here the voice of God. These are the christians who God honors their prayers.

We all need to be completely honest and ask ourselves, what kind of christian am I?

 

[KingdomGeneration]

We don't go seeking signs however, Alicia is correct, Jesus Himself says signs and wonders shall follow those who believe.

The problem is that there are basically two types of christians today. Those who just believe in God, whom I like to refer to as "casual christians". And there are those who actually dare to believe God in every aspect of there lives, I like to call them "committed christians".

The difference between the two is simple. The casual christian goes to church on Sunday and Wednesday. They may even volunteer or actually head up various activities or ministries around the church. They are good people and there hearts may be sincere however, their problem is that God is just a part of their life.

The committed christian is a completely different person altogether. These people don't necessarily have to go to church (although they are ussually there bright and early) to find God because they understand that they themselves are the tabernacle of the Lord. God is more than just part of their their life, God is the focal point of their life. God is the first thing they consider in every thought that is entertained, every word spoken, and in every action taken. These people are far from perfect however, they possess a deep burning for God that overwhealms all other desires in their lives. That desire is called faith, the kind of faith that God Himself gives full consideration as righteousness. These are the christians who here the voice of God. These are the christians who God honors their prayers.

We all need to be completely honest and ask ourselves, what kind of christian am I?

"By His stripes we are healed"

I have heard testimony ,by those who walk closely with the Lord to a point where God actually honors their prayers, of situations where healing was used to bring people to Christ especially in Muslim countries. In other words "If my God can heal you and set you free from your affirmities, will you live your life for Him?"

The gospel of Christ is a gospel of unconditional love. Would not that love include healing?

 

[Christian0788]

What is the argument of this article? That Pentecostalism is a false church?

 

[leendert]

And in many cases sin and sickness are related, c.f. "your sins are forgiven you" when Jesus healed people.

For God nothing is impossible,so yes He can and im sure He does heal people.The problem today is that we have a man centred and not a God centered religion.We go to church because we want this and that and the other thing.I go to church to worship God .He is my creator and my saviour. He owes me nothing.

 

[watchmen]

I find it strange that most heresy hunter hold to many many heresies themselves. This definitely stands true in this case.

 

[watchmen]

GENTLEMEN...

I'm not someone who goes around 'rebuking' others... but I will say this '
Be really... REALLY careful' about what you say.. especially regarding how you think the Holy Spirit should move and shouldn't.

This bible teaching warning is about the danger of the unforgiveable sin of blaspheming the Spirit by saying a miracle is of the devil:

I agree with both of these statement and even though Roaringkitten way off track and out of line. To blaspheme the Holy Spirit it must be intentional. I believe Roaringkitten is simply misguided, not intentionally calling the work of the Holy Spirit satanic.

 

[KingdomGeneration]

I agree with both of these statement and even though Roaringkitten way off track and out of line. To blaspheme the Holy Spirit it must be intentional. I believe Roaringkitten is simply misguided, not intentionally calling the work of the Holy Spirit satanic.

Good point Watchmen. Recently Mahogany exposed the fact that a lot of the info being posted by those who hold to an anti-charismatic position, is indeed second hand information that they had gotten from some book or website. It is obvious that the information posted did not come from personal revelation that they themselves had received from the Holy Spirit through prayer, fasting or mediation on God's word.

This is why it is absolutely critical that we study God's word for ourselves and ask God for guidance and discernment concerning all matters. Jesus Himself proclaims in scripture that His sheep know His voice. We all must ask ourselves, just who is it are we listening to? God and His holy agenda or man and his fallen agenda?

 

[leendert]

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked One be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the breath of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deception of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be condemned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
ev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exercises all the power of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and them who dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he does great wonders, so that he makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceives them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that t
hey should make an image to the beast, that had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
According to this there will be many false wonders and false prophets in the last days.And the whole world will be decieved maybe even Gods elect.(I think the bible might be right)But of course that must exlude everybody here, no way we could be decieved by something so stupid !!

 

[watchmen]

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked One be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the breath of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deception of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be condemned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
ev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exercises all the power of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and them who dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he does great wonders, so that he makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceives them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that t
hey should make an image to the beast, that had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
According to this there will be many false wonders and false prophets in the last days.And the whole world will be decieved maybe even Gods elect.(I think the bible might be right)But of course that must exlude everybody here, no way we could be decieved by something so stupid !!

The Bible also says this....
2nd Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

Jude:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

Do not think you can conform God into your little box, neither discount something because you do not understand it.

 

[Aliciaforjesus]

Unfortunatley christianity has became a needs based man centred afair.The church with the better music ,bigger miricles and big shows are the fullest.Poeple go to church to get rich, be healed and other shelfish reasons. We seem to have lost the plot. We should go to church to worship God.As for mr hinn ill let him speak for himself

Christians are little messiahs. Christians are little gods. (Benny Hinn, Praise-a-thon (TBN), recorded November 1990)
"Though we are not Almighty God Himself, nevertheless, we are now divine" (Benny Hinn, 12/1/90, TBN)
"Christians are "Little Messiah's and "little gods" on the earth. Thus [Encouraging the audience]...say "I am a God-man....This spirit-man within me is a God-man..." say "I'm born of heaven-a God-man. I'm a God man. I am a sample of Jesus. I'm a super being. Say it! Say it! Who's a super being? "I walk in the realm of the supernatural." Say it!...You want to prosper? Money will be falling on you from left, right and centre. God will begin to prosper you, for money always follows righteousness....Say after me, "everything I ever want is in me already." (Benny Hinn, TBN,1990)
"I am a 'little messiah' walking the earth" (Benny Hinn, Praise-a-Thon" on TBN, November 6, 1990).
"Are you ready for some real revelation knowledge....you are god" (Benny Hinn, "Our Position In Christ", tape #AO31190-1) "Don't tell me you have Jesus. You ARE everything He was, and everything He is and shall be." (Benny Hinn,TBN)
​

"You see, frankly, that's the way I think about it. I'm sorry, I'm not exactly the normal kind of guy, you know, I'm from Israel. Sometimes I wish God would give me a Holy Ghost machine gun, I'd blow your head off." (Benny Hinn talking about "heresy hunters, TBN)

God has 9 parts (tri-theistic). (Benny Hinn, Benny Hinn broadcast, recorded 10/13/90) Poverty comes from Hell. Prosperity comes from Heaven. Adam had complete dominion over the earth and all it contains. A. Adam could fly like a bird. B. Adam could swim underwater and breathe like a fish. Adam went to the moon. Adam walked on water. Adam was a super being, He was the first superman that lived. Adam had dominion over the sun, moon & stars.Christians do not have Christ in their hearts. Sow a big seed, when you confess it, you are activating the supernatural forces of God. (Benny Hinn, Praise-a-thon (TBN), recorded November 1990)
​

​

Did you know, you can not even make a prayer request on Benny Hinns web site unless you give him money first?

Go check it out!

 

[Aliciaforjesus]

For God nothing is impossible,so yes He can and im sure He does heal people.The problem today is that we have a man centred and not a God centered religion.We go to church because we want this and that and the other thing.I go to church to worship God .He is my creator and my saviour. He owes me nothing.

I think you hit it right on the nose.

It's the book of Gal.