What do you believe and why do you believe it?
- Thread starter Spectrox
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You are obscuring the point. I understand your need to do this. The code is digital and packed with more info than the library of Congress.
WHERE DID THE INFORMATION COME FROM? And the point that DNA mutates or degrades doesn't change that it is digital. MUTATIONS almost universally result in degradation not improvement. In fact, the mutation VERIFIES Scripture, in that it validates the fall of man and by extension the Creation.
WHERE DID THE INFORMATION COME FROM? And the point that DNA mutates or degrades doesn't change that it is digital. MUTATIONS almost universally result in degradation not improvement. In fact, the mutation VERIFIES Scripture, in that it validates the fall of man and by extension the Creation.
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Here is Post 311:
I have related this story before, but it may be worth telling again.
As long as I can remember I have believed Jesus is God and that He rose from the dead. Whether at this particular point I was "born again" I do not know. But it is irrelevant from the Lord's viewpoint, as He is outside of time.
It was during my heavy party days as a late teen/early 20s. I was in full, feed my flesh mode. We use to have a brown Ice tea container, that my mom periodically cleaned by letting clorox bleach sit in for a while to disinfect. I'm sure it was diluted, but I found out afterward that it was still a very strong, likely fatal mixture. You couldn't tell what color the liquid was because it all looked brown.
Anyway, after a long night of drinking, I woke up with a terrible thirst. I went into the kitchen and saw the Ice tea container on the counter. Without even thinking, I guzzled a pretty big amount, right out of the container, (I know, what a slob!) before it hit my brain that it wasn't ice tea!
All in a second, I thought, "this is it! I'm going to die". The wind knocked out of my lungs and a couple seconds later I took a huge gasp of breath. After that, it was as if I had never swallowed anything evil. Didn't even throw up, and felt fine.
Does that qualify?
I don't believe Christians should go around putting the Lord to the test by purposefully drinking poison, or handling snakes etc... But if those things DO happen, HE will protect us. The snake bit Paul. He wasn't trying to find a snake to bite him to show everyone that he could get bit by a poisonous snake and survive.
Will you now please believe?
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Slavery is not a bad thing? Seriously. Just read Exodus 21 to see how badly slaves could be treated, and fully supported by the God of the Bible. It is possible to have fairly good secular humanist societies like the ones in Scandinavia. Fairly low crime and social ills. Benign government who are servants of the people who try their best to prevent and sort out problems so that citizens can thrive and flourish. Atheists aren't all like Pol Pot and Stalin.
The problem of residing in ones own doubt.
The universe is 100% hostile. The only slightly neutral place is our planet.
Our planet has some very odd coincidences. These are so odd and so specific without which life could not exist,
you have to say 99% they allowed life to exist. At what point do these have to exist before one admits this is
a created world, a construction and not just interaction between forces?
Imagine equally God exists but we hate Him. Why would we want to acknowledge anything about creation?
On the other hand if God was like our hearts, just on hearing His name and principles would our hearts warm
to Him? And that for me is the true nature of existence.
Existence is not about acknowledging the truth, but about discovering the creator because we want to.
I found at a young age, after much thought, I wanted something else as an alternative to Jesus, who seemed
singularly restrictive and boring. The difficulty I had, there appears nothing else, literally. And then I discovered
my very heart which I trusted as being ok, would quite happily betray me and send me off on any track as long
as everything stayed safe and as was, so truth and reality were quite happy to be sacrificed on the altar of stability.
As I have grown in Christ, each step has been the same. Another step on, while in the past it seemed so vast
and impossible, yet over time, my life time, each step has been one step further on into glory.
Why should I imagine that which seems so solid, matter but is 99% nothing is more reliable than God and His
word that speaks to every area of my existence and brings me life? I cannot so I bow in praise and worship
to my King, Amen.
The universe is 100% hostile. The only slightly neutral place is our planet.
Our planet has some very odd coincidences. These are so odd and so specific without which life could not exist,
you have to say 99% they allowed life to exist. At what point do these have to exist before one admits this is
a created world, a construction and not just interaction between forces?
Imagine equally God exists but we hate Him. Why would we want to acknowledge anything about creation?
On the other hand if God was like our hearts, just on hearing His name and principles would our hearts warm
to Him? And that for me is the true nature of existence.
Existence is not about acknowledging the truth, but about discovering the creator because we want to.
I found at a young age, after much thought, I wanted something else as an alternative to Jesus, who seemed
singularly restrictive and boring. The difficulty I had, there appears nothing else, literally. And then I discovered
my very heart which I trusted as being ok, would quite happily betray me and send me off on any track as long
as everything stayed safe and as was, so truth and reality were quite happy to be sacrificed on the altar of stability.
As I have grown in Christ, each step has been the same. Another step on, while in the past it seemed so vast
and impossible, yet over time, my life time, each step has been one step further on into glory.
Why should I imagine that which seems so solid, matter but is 99% nothing is more reliable than God and His
word that speaks to every area of my existence and brings me life? I cannot so I bow in praise and worship
to my King, Amen.
Everything has problems. What you are talking about in terms of Mosaic law is late bronze age early iron age
society where worshiping idols, had temple prostitutes and child sacrifice were common.
Comparing this to our modern, technological, educated, sophisticated societies of today, fed and supported
by oil, gas and coal energy consumption is not a fair comparison. To get here we have taken the moral framework
of Christian faith and applied it to an ideal, almost heavenly human existence.
The problems of disease have been conquered so we can all potentially live to 70+.
Theologically there are real questions as to why this situation took so long to develop, except God introduced
the idea He sows the seeds, we reap the harvest and consequences. Revelations suggests a final conflict between
rebellion against love with a desire for sin and self indulgence and Gods people who walk in His ways.
Maybe how this is fulfilled or actually which model is reality still has to be worked out.
Does love conquer all? Is spiritual blindness as religious as we make it appear?
society where worshiping idols, had temple prostitutes and child sacrifice were common.
Comparing this to our modern, technological, educated, sophisticated societies of today, fed and supported
by oil, gas and coal energy consumption is not a fair comparison. To get here we have taken the moral framework
of Christian faith and applied it to an ideal, almost heavenly human existence.
The problems of disease have been conquered so we can all potentially live to 70+.
Theologically there are real questions as to why this situation took so long to develop, except God introduced
the idea He sows the seeds, we reap the harvest and consequences. Revelations suggests a final conflict between
rebellion against love with a desire for sin and self indulgence and Gods people who walk in His ways.
Maybe how this is fulfilled or actually which model is reality still has to be worked out.
Does love conquer all? Is spiritual blindness as religious as we make it appear?
I don't know. I'm not a molecular biologist. Neither are you, I suspect.
I agree that there are lots of improbabilities in life, e.g. DNA coding, the chirality of proteins, the fact that water has it's highest density at 4 degrees centigrade, the Goldie Locks distance of the Earth from the Sun. But then again, this Universe could be the end result of a trillion, trillion Universal attempts that preceded the Big Bang. How can we know? Also, there are 10 to the power 22 stars in the observable Universe. That's a pretty big number. But even if it is proved to be vanishingly unlikley that natural forces could have created life as we know it, this gets you no closer to proving that your particular God is true. The Bible has zero explanatory power in this regard.
If you accept science "knowledge" like DNA sequencing, do you accept that science is in conflict with the creation account in the Book of Genesis. Do you agree that science does not accept that miracles occur?
It does nothing of the sort as explained above. Why doesn't God heal amputees? That would be a good demonstration of his power.
I agree that there are lots of improbabilities in life, e.g. DNA coding, the chirality of proteins, the fact that water has it's highest density at 4 degrees centigrade, the Goldie Locks distance of the Earth from the Sun. But then again, this Universe could be the end result of a trillion, trillion Universal attempts that preceded the Big Bang. How can we know? Also, there are 10 to the power 22 stars in the observable Universe. That's a pretty big number. But even if it is proved to be vanishingly unlikley that natural forces could have created life as we know it, this gets you no closer to proving that your particular God is true. The Bible has zero explanatory power in this regard.
If you accept science "knowledge" like DNA sequencing, do you accept that science is in conflict with the creation account in the Book of Genesis. Do you agree that science does not accept that miracles occur?
It does nothing of the sort as explained above. Why doesn't God heal amputees? That would be a good demonstration of his power.
I'm glad you survived. It's sounds like a horrible experience. But what does it really prove? It was LIKELY fatal but not confirmed to be so. How do you know that your God was protecting you throughout this and not something else? How do you know that it really was a fatal mixture? Was it tested in any way? Anecdotal evidence is quite bad at getting to the truth.
I understand that your intention is good and that you are trying to help me spiritually. But your presupposition will inevitably cloud your perception of events. Then there's confirmation bias to consider. This idea of faith just seems to be a really ineffective and arbitrary soul filter.
Also, I believe that recently a Christian did allow a poisonous snake to bite him in a ritual and he died as a result. I will try to find the report on it.
I understand that your intention is good and that you are trying to help me spiritually. But your presupposition will inevitably cloud your perception of events. Then there's confirmation bias to consider. This idea of faith just seems to be a really ineffective and arbitrary soul filter.
Also, I believe that recently a Christian did allow a poisonous snake to bite him in a ritual and he died as a result. I will try to find the report on it.
Summary - I might have drunk bleach, a lot of bleach or just water, and survived, its a miracle.
Now to any critical thinker, cause and effect. You drank something, it had no effect, it was not what you
thought it was. So many times people do one thing, then another and forget the other.
So put bleach in leave it. Go back to rinse it out, fill with water, pour away, fill with water, get distracted
and forget it is not emptied of water. Son comes in swallows the lot, believes is going to die.
No a miracle, they are alive. Now please, change your whole world view and come to faith because I
drunk a flask full of water.
To even seriously put this forward as a reason for faith, is just nuts, literally nuts.
I feel ashamed. But then some believe in angel feathers, gold dust, wealth God invented out of thin air.
If I followed Christ because of these testimonies I would soon be an atheist, it is so much more honest.
Christ stands because of changed hearts not miracles, miracles speak to authority nothing more.
Now to any critical thinker, cause and effect. You drank something, it had no effect, it was not what you
thought it was. So many times people do one thing, then another and forget the other.
So put bleach in leave it. Go back to rinse it out, fill with water, pour away, fill with water, get distracted
and forget it is not emptied of water. Son comes in swallows the lot, believes is going to die.
No a miracle, they are alive. Now please, change your whole world view and come to faith because I
drunk a flask full of water.
To even seriously put this forward as a reason for faith, is just nuts, literally nuts.
I feel ashamed. But then some believe in angel feathers, gold dust, wealth God invented out of thin air.
If I followed Christ because of these testimonies I would soon be an atheist, it is so much more honest.
Christ stands because of changed hearts not miracles, miracles speak to authority nothing more.
God doesn't need to demonstrate His Power. Look above at what you wrote. The answer is literally staring you in the face.
YOU KNOW THERE IS A GOD! If you fail to accept Him you can be certain to see the words you wrote again, as He says " You saw the impossibility of everything coming from nothing, you knew from nature everything HAD to be designed, and yet you still rejected the Truth".
WE..... Are NOT uncertain! Stop looking for reasons to NOT believe.
It's like the movie you watch and certain people KNOW the truth, yet others don't believe they KNOW the truth, and you scream at the set, "Why can't you see the truth!".
YOU KNOW THERE IS A GOD! If you fail to accept Him you can be certain to see the words you wrote again, as He says " You saw the impossibility of everything coming from nothing, you knew from nature everything HAD to be designed, and yet you still rejected the Truth".
WE..... Are NOT uncertain! Stop looking for reasons to NOT believe.
It's like the movie you watch and certain people KNOW the truth, yet others don't believe they KNOW the truth, and you scream at the set, "Why can't you see the truth!".
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Hi Spectrox,
It annoys me tremendously is christians arguing they are not religious, when what they mean is they
have a relationship reality with God which people who just follow ceremonies do not.
What they do not understand is faith and belief are not that simple to separate and if you go to any
church and change anything, the level of opposition suggests relationship is not so clear cut in these
faith groups and they are literally a religious group after all, claiming just another reason to be
superior to that group down the road. lol.
I do laugh because working with our limitations and loving all is part of our walk and part of knowing
the truth, God bless you
It annoys me tremendously is christians arguing they are not religious, when what they mean is they
have a relationship reality with God which people who just follow ceremonies do not.
What they do not understand is faith and belief are not that simple to separate and if you go to any
church and change anything, the level of opposition suggests relationship is not so clear cut in these
faith groups and they are literally a religious group after all, claiming just another reason to be
superior to that group down the road. lol.
I do laugh because working with our limitations and loving all is part of our walk and part of knowing
the truth, God bless you
Again. You keep moving the goalposts. You asked if I did any of the things talked about in Mark. I told you I did. You STILL don't believe.
Maybe if someone came back from the dead you would believe.... Oh Wait! ... Someone did! And over 500 people saw Him. But something tells me that's still not good enough for you.
Maybe if someone came back from the dead you would believe.... Oh Wait! ... Someone did! And over 500 people saw Him. But something tells me that's still not good enough for you.
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Interesting. You are right to a degree. The scientific method is to propose a law or rule, which can be
tested in a repeatable experiment with outcomes which will confirm or deny the proposition.
For it to be scientific it must be capable of disproving the proposition.
God declared about blessing or judgement linked to behaviour. Predictions are made in social behaviour
which results in love or anger and violence. Certain groups are told they will hate you, and others they will
love you. Certain trials and difficulties will occur but stay strong and the end will be reached.
Now these are repeatable experiments and the results predictable.
So predictable are the moral outcomes, humanists have adopted them and removed the elements of faith.
So I have to support the idea, the bible is 100% predictive, especially about my life and how it will go.
God bless you
tested in a repeatable experiment with outcomes which will confirm or deny the proposition.
For it to be scientific it must be capable of disproving the proposition.
God declared about blessing or judgement linked to behaviour. Predictions are made in social behaviour
which results in love or anger and violence. Certain groups are told they will hate you, and others they will
love you. Certain trials and difficulties will occur but stay strong and the end will be reached.
Now these are repeatable experiments and the results predictable.
So predictable are the moral outcomes, humanists have adopted them and removed the elements of faith.
So I have to support the idea, the bible is 100% predictive, especially about my life and how it will go.
God bless you
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Scripture speaks of one faith. The faith of Christ. The work of the faith of God .
The faith that comes from hearing God as it is written is the correct one. Adding to it or taking from it destroys the integrity of sola scriptura. (All things written in the law and the prophets ).God's two witnesses
The faith that comes from hearing God as it is written is the correct one. Adding to it or taking from it destroys the integrity of sola scriptura. (All things written in the law and the prophets ).God's two witnesses
The parable involving the use of poison from serpents (metaphor) as to its hidden understanding must be searched out. The literal understanding is for those who know not Christ. Poison represents false doctrine. Believers that walk by faith the unseen eternal understanding will not be deceived by false doctrine.
There simply is no outward sign we could perform . No such thing as a "sign gift" to confirm something. We have the witness of the Holy Spirit in us he does all the confirming . Learn what it means to walk by faith not after the imaginations of one heart like those who drink poison and die.
Keep studying and asking questions to show one self approved unto God. You are getting closer...
There simply is no outward sign we could perform . No such thing as a "sign gift" to confirm something. We have the witness of the Holy Spirit in us he does all the confirming . Learn what it means to walk by faith not after the imaginations of one heart like those who drink poison and die.
Keep studying and asking questions to show one self approved unto God. You are getting closer...