Not By Works

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fredoheaven

fredoheaven

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Nov 17, 2015
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#112,081
Pisteuo said:
Christ is formed in our hearts by Faith, that's pisteuo when applied.
That's according to the NT writers.

I said daily surrender, hourly if need be. Some days are harder than others.
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Would you mind to back up with scriptures, please?

Thank you.
 
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Pisteuo

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BillG said:
Actually it's not only to maintain salvation but to earn it in order to maintain it.



Point 1 leads into point 2.

Surrender our lives daily, hourly if necessary, then believe God HAS accepted tested and so on and complete the surredered life.

Now if we surrender our lives how on earth can we believe that God has accepted us based on that surrendered life?

If we can and he does accept how can God complete the surrendered life?
If our surrendered life is enough to be accepted nothing is left to completed?

Even if it's completed by us and accepted how can God complete it further?
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Pisteuo, or saving Faith is an act, based upon a Belief, sustained by confidence. Point 1,2,3.
BillG said:
Actually it's not only to maintain salvation but to earn it in order to maintain it.



Point 1 leads into point 2.

Surrender our lives daily, hourly if necessary, then believe God HAS accepted tested and so on and complete the surredered life.

Now if we surrender our lives how on earth can we believe that God has accepted us based on that surrendered life?

If we can and he does accept how can God complete the surrendered life?
If our surrendered life is enough to be accepted nothing is left to completed?

Even if it's completed by us and accepted how can God complete it further?
Click to expand...
We believe it by making daily decisions that support such surrendered life. The third point, sustained by confidence.
 
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Pisteuo

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BillG said:
If grace is a completed work and is given as a gift then the five points above are what we have to do to the receive the gift then actually it's not a gift at all.

However if we know it's a gift and we accept that gift then points 1,3,4&5 I agree with.

Point 2 I will always disagree with because you say that we be accepted based on what we do when it's tested and approved by God.

We are accepted as a result of genuine faith in Jesus which leads points 1,3,4 and 5 because we have been given the Holy Spirit who came to convict us off the sin on unbelief in Jesus which we repent off.

PS do you only surrender hourly?
If so then it's not complete surrender.
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We as saints are "being" perfected. What is being perfected? Our Faith, our surrendered life! It doesn't begin perfect, it just must be genuine. Our Faith life or surrendered life is like pealing an Onion, a different layer every day. It won't be completed until we graduate from here.
 
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Pisteuo

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fredoheaven said:
Would you mind to back up with scriptures, please?

Thank you.
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Not until you show a good grasp on what NT saving Faith, pisteuo is.
We are just discussing what the Greek writers are communicating with the use of the word pisteuo. Then restart an application,but your not able to accept the true definition.

You still think pisteuo means believe.
 
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Pisteuo

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Lightskin said:
Jesus paid for our sins in full. We don’t have to work for salvation or to maintain it.
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You got Grace and Faith mixed in together, they are separate. Grace is what Jesus did by Faith with the Father. Faithing is what we do to receive that Grace from Christ, being in Him.

Do you really think that your understanding is not doing anything?
Believing is doing something, right? In your understanding you "must" believe! That's something your doing, right! Should I the be accusing you and the others of works based salvation?

Where am I wrong my lightskinned brother.
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
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Oct 14, 2013
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#112,087
Lightskin said:
Jesus paid for our sins in full. We don’t have to work for salvation or to maintain it.
Click to expand...

Romans 5:18-19 (NCV)
18 So as one sin of Adam brought the punishment of death to all people, one good act that Christ did makes all people right with God. And that brings true life for all.
19 One man disobeyed God, and many became sinners. In the same way, one man obeyed God, and many will be made right.


Ecclesiastes 7:20 (NKJV)
20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good And does not sin.


Romans 3:23-24 (HCSB)
23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
24 They are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.


Romans 3:28 (HCSB)
28 For we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.


Romans 5:9 (ESV)
9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

Romans 5:10 (ESV)
10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
 
limmuwd

limmuwd

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Oct 12, 2019
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#112,088
gb9 said:
I agree. man's opinion means little to me.
that is why I pay 0 attention to what you write.. it is all your opinion.
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Unfortunately, you and most others in this group also believe that what Jesus and the Apostles taught is only their opinion or suggestions. Whereas you take the fluffy, ear-tickling "preachers" of today - who declare their own carnal opinions - and receive what they say... as it makes your type feel good about remaining in your sins, and believing that you still get heaven when you die.
And of course "heaven" isn't the goal. There is no 'rapture.' And not a single "sinner-saved-by-grace" will inherit the promises of God to those who "overcome" in Rev 2 & 3.

If you'd like a little more to bash concerning the Truth I teach, you can find more of it here - Where Do I Belong?

As always... "you will know them by their fruit." :)


awaiting more childish retorts... ;)
 
CherieR

CherieR

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May 6, 2017
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#112,089
limmuwd said:
Unfortunately, you and most others in this group also believe that what Jesus and the Apostles taught is only their opinion or suggestions. Whereas you take the fluffy, ear-tickling "preachers" of today - who declare their own carnal opinions - and receive what they say... as it makes your type feel good about remaining in your sins, and believing that you still get heaven when you die.
And of course "heaven" isn't the goal. There is no 'rapture.' And not a single "sinner-saved-by-grace" will inherit the promises of God to those who "overcome" in Rev 2 & 3.

If you'd like a little more to bash concerning the Truth I teach, you can find more of it here - Where Do I Belong?

As always... "you will know them by their fruit.":)


awaiting more childish retorts... ;)
Click to expand...
Do you believe in salvation by doing good works? Do you believe salvation is something to be earned verses a gift of God?
 
U

UnderGrace

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CherieR said:
Do you believe in salvation by doing good works? Do you believe salvation is something to be earned verses a gift of God?
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Here is what he believes ........that grace/the work of Jesus, is insufficient to save

Understanding that “salvation” (here the free gift) is an opportunity, not an end, has unveiled so much of the Truth of the Scripture, and given me a True hope that the ‘forgiveness & belief alone’ type preaching does not.
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Link (Extreme Caution)
 
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UnderGrace

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CherieR said:
Do you believe in salvation by doing good works? Do you believe salvation is something to be earned verses a gift of God?
Click to expand...
Oh and more...

They are not the same; not “co-equal”. For one thing, Jesus is something that God is not: flesh & bone. And we know the Bible states that God “made Jesus Lord and Christ” because of His obedience, and that His Name is “above every other name”; yet Jesus is and will always be “subject to God.”
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Link (Doubly Extreme Caution)
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Dec 12, 2013
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UnderGrace said:
Here is what he believes ........that grace/the work of Jesus, is insufficient to save



Link (Extreme Caution)
Click to expand...
I was reading some of propaganda he was peddling....
was about to stroke out due to high blood pressure because of his total devaluation of Jesus, his faith, power and promises while lifting himself above God and declaring God to be weak and inept....

When one must help Jesus to either save them or keep themselves saved....their doctrine states clearly that what Jesus has done and does on our behalf is not sufficient....it is sickening!
 
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UnderGrace

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dcontroversal said:
I was reading some of propaganda he was peddling....
was about to stroke out due to high blood pressure because of his total devaluation of Jesus, his faith, power and promises while lifting himself above God and declaring God to be weak and inept....

When one mus help Jesus to either save them or keep themselves saved....their doctrine states clearly that what Jesus has done and does on our behalf is not sufficient....it is sickening!
Click to expand...
Sickening that he has a following too!!
He pretty much admits Jesus was not God in the flesh!
Oh yes, and of course he has come to this "revelation" all on his own.
Everyone else has been wrong all this time....but he has been chosen to reveal the truth ...smh
 
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Pisteuo

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UnderGrace said:
Here is what he believes ........that grace/the work of Jesus, is insufficient to save



Link (Extreme Caution)
Click to expand...

You got Grace and Faith mixed in together, they are separate. Grace is what Jesus did by Faith with the Father. Faithing is what we do to receive that Grace from Christ, being in Him.

Do you really think that your understanding is not doing anything?
Believing is doing something, right? In your understanding you "must" believe! That's something your doing, right! Should I the be accusing you and the others of works based salvation?
 
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Pisteuo

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UnderGrace said:
A lot of what he writes sounds very JW to me, of course he will probably not admit it.
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Why must you believe UG? Is Christ's work on the cross insufficient?
Why do you feel you need to add anything to His work?
 
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