Is God A Moral Monster?

[Locoponydirtman]

I find it interesting that when God spoke to Moses he said that he is I am.
If you think about the implications of this in a relationship to existence this becomes an interesting statement. I am emphasis on am as in self existing requiring no other source of being, and therefore the source of all existence. So I am is the substance of all existence.
This statement also excludes things that are not, things that don't exist, ie any other supposed self existing being, false gods as a were.

 

[Dino246]

Oh, but they were.
The golden calf the Israelite's made was based on the Egyptian goddess legend as pertained to Hathor who gave birth to a golden calf. That legend predated the Israelite's fashioning the idol. The golden calf is native to ancient Mesopotamia, the region of northern Syria, as well as Egypt south of the Sinai.
And their act was forbidden by God, see the Book of Exodus chapter 20 and verses 22 through 23.

Aaron said of the golden calf, "This is your god, O Israel, who brought you up from the land of Egypt." The Israelites broke the second commandment, not the first, as it is stated in verse 23. Their sin was idolatry, not polytheism (which would be a violation of the first commandment).

 

[Whispered]

Aaron said of the golden calf, "This is your god, O Israel, who brought you up from the land of Egypt." The Israelites broke the second commandment, not the first, as it is stated in verse 23. Their sin was idolatry, not polytheism (which would be a violation of the first commandment).

Your quote misapplies the actual language and context of Exodus 32 and verse 8. ESV version
7 And the Lord said to Moses, “Go down, for your people, whom you brought up out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves. 8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way that I commanded them. They have made for themselves a golden calf and have worshiped it and sacrificed to it and said, ‘These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!’”

Complete Jewish Bible version
7 Adonai said to Moshe, “Go down! Hurry! Your people, whom you brought up from the land of Egypt, have become corrupt! 8 So quickly they have turned aside from the way I ordered them to follow! They have cast a metal statue of a calf, worshipped it, sacrificed to it and said, ‘Isra’el! Here is your god, who brought you up from the land of Egypt!’”

 

[Dino246]

Your quote misapplies the actual language and context of Exodus 32 and verse 8. ESV version
7 And the Lord said to Moses, “Go down, for your people, whom you brought up out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves. 8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way that I commanded them. They have made for themselves a golden calf and have worshiped it and sacrificed to it and said, ‘These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!’”

Complete Jewish Bible version
7 Adonai said to Moshe, “Go down! Hurry! Your people, whom you brought up from the land of Egypt, have become corrupt! 8 So quickly they have turned aside from the way I ordered them to follow! They have cast a metal statue of a calf, worshipped it, sacrificed to it and said, ‘Isra’el! Here is your god, who brought you up from the land of Egypt!’”

Your snide comments are quite unnecessary. The NASB has "This is your god". Your point is valid, but it doesn't disprove mine, which is that idolatry and polytheism are not synonyms.

 

[Whispered]

Your snide comments are quite unnecessary.

I quite agree, that is why I never resort to that kind of language. Please do not misrepresent my posts when the evidence you are wrong is in print in my post(s). Thank you in advance.

The NASB has "This is your god". Your point is valid, but it doesn't disprove mine, which is that idolatry and polytheism are not synonyms.

Your point actually does not pertain to the topic that was being discussed.

 

[Dino246]

Your point actually does not pertain to the topic that was being discussed.

Um... huh? What do you consider the topic of discussion?

 

[Whispered]

Um... huh? What do you consider the topic of discussion?

The topic under discussion between myself and you was that of the early Israelite's polytheism. And also , idolatry.

 

[Dino246]

The topic under discussion between myself and you was that of the early Israelite's polytheism. And also , idolatry.

How does "polytheism and idolatry are not synonyms" not pertain to that topic?

Anyway. There's not much point in bickering over such things.

 

[PS]

And God punished them many times also. Many died and was exiled for long periods of time. Just read the book of Daniel. The whole nation fell by a pagan nation. Then they would turn back and God would save them.

That is how the Mitzvot laws came to be written on the basis that if they lived good lives, they would not be taken into captivity again.

 

[Dibby53]

The topic under discussion between myself and you was that of the early Israelite's polytheism. And also , idolatry.

I think the archaeology shows that the early Israelites were Henotheistic. That is they believed in many gods, but worshipped only one main God above them all. Hence why Yahweh is said to be " God amonst gods" , that you shall "have no ther gods but me" and that he is "a jealous God". Why would he be jealous of non existent gods? In fact the research shows that Yahweh had a wife/consort called Asherah. Figurines have been found of her in archaeological digs in the region. There is more evidence in Genesis when the proper translation is plural of " let US make man in our own image".

Polytheism is simply the belief in many gods. Early Israel was henotheistic and came to worship one leader god amongst many.....then they did away with the rest of the gods.

Idolatry is mistaking an image for the actual.

I hope this is of some good.

 

[calibob]

I think the archaeology shows that the early Israelites were Henotheistic. That is they believed in many gods, but worshipped only one main God above them all. Hence why Yahweh is said to be " God amonst gods" , that you shall "have no ther gods but me" and that he is "a jealous God". Why would he be jealous of non existent gods? In fact the research shows that Yahweh had a wife/consort called Asherah. Figurines have been found of her in archaeological digs in the region. There is more evidence in Genesis when the proper translation is plural of " let US make man in our own image".

Polytheism is simply the belief in many gods. Early Israel was henotheistic and came to worship one leader god amongst many.....then they did away with the rest of the gods.

Idolatry is mistaking an image for the actual.

I hope this is of some good.

Incorrect
Colossians 3:5 5Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.
New International Version

 

[Dibby53]

https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology...ews-invented-god-and-made-him-great-1.5392677

Here is an article on what the archaeology is indicating.

 

[PS]

Incorrect
Colossians 3:5 5Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.
New International Version

They were still sacrificing their children to the gods in the valley of Hinmon (spelling) while Jesus was giving the sermon on the mount. They were very sincere people but their sense of right and wrong must have given them pause for thought? Then Jesus came to rescue them from all this. In a way what they were doing is understandable, simply because they knew no better and it was the normal thing to do, but still they persisted and the verse you quote came when the people should have been more enlightened but still they persisted, and sorry to say, many still reject Jesus which is why I am so concerned.

 

[Mii]

I think the archaeology shows that the early Israelites were Henotheistic. That is they believed in many gods, but worshipped only one main God above them all. Hence why Yahweh is said to be " God amonst gods" , that you shall "have no ther gods but me" and that he is "a jealous God". Why would he be jealous of non existent gods? In fact the research shows that Yahweh had a wife/consort called Asherah. Figurines have been found of her in archaeological digs in the region. There is more evidence in Genesis when the proper translation is plural of " let US make man in our own image".

Polytheism is simply the belief in many gods. Early Israel was henotheistic and came to worship one leader god amongst many.....then they did away with the rest of the gods.

Idolatry is mistaking an image for the actual.

I hope this is of some good.

This post troubles me. The Lord was very against Asherah worship...how can you attempt to reconcile this?

 

[Dibby53]

This post troubles me. The Lord was very against Asherah worship...how can you attempt to reconcile this?

Have a read of the earlier article I linked to and see what you think. It gives a good account of what probably happened. To me what we are seeing is the evolution of the understanding of God. By the way before someone says, this does not invalidate the bible. It makes it far more interesting than we can imagine. People are grasping their way to understanding the divine. It goes from tribal, storm god to "God is love" and " God is light. In him is no darkness at all"

 

[Melach]

Free speech my friend. Just as we have the free speech to correct and call out false teachers. And I am usually very cautious with others beliefs but if they get too far away from the core Christian message then I am forced to revert to all the scriptures that speak on how to handle false teachers.

Wow this thread got the blasphemous all uproarious, and emboldened.
Did you start this thread to ferret out these rapscallions?

sorry guys i still believe PS is preaching massive false doctrine by saying god of the o.t. is different from the nt. insinuating its basically devil

but it was friday i was a bit tipsy so whatever i said doesnt count.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

sorry guys i still believe PS is preaching massive false doctrine by saying god of the o.t. is different from the nt. insinuating its basically devil

but it was friday i was a bit tipsy so whatever i said doesnt count.

PS is a blasphemer.

 

[Dibby53]

This video is interesting. Professor of the Hebrew Bible at the College de France talks about the hebrew bible. In it he mentions that the violent stories of conquest are a counter story to the Assyrian stories of their conquests under their gods. Interesing. I shall have to research further.

 

[Melach]

This video is interesting. Professor of the Hebrew Bible at the College de France talks about the hebrew bible. In it he mentions that the violent stories of conquest are a counter story to the Assyrian stories of their conquests under their gods. Interesing. I shall have to research further.

many of these professors are just atheist deceivers with christian titles. i hope he stops sowing doubt in people.
but to your tickling ears its great, a way to dismiss large portions of bible and choose what parts are politically correct and good enough for your wittle feewings. christianity is already laughed at and people like this professor arent making it any better. islam has more integrity than professing christians and that is why they are taken more seriously, they are still manly and dont bend to society's every need but stick to their doctrine.

praise Jesus many christians also stick to what they believe and i thank God for those people and pastors, but on this side its more common to start bending to the world i dont know why. i need to ask God about that.


you clearly dont watn to believe the totality of the bible so just stop faking to be a christian. stop making excuses and explaining away what the o.t. says. it says what it says if you dont believe it then stop being a fake christian and ruining the reputation even further
i think something like humanism where you hold hands in a circle would fit you more, but you are not a christian thats proof already. no christian rejects large parts of o.t.

 

[PS]

PS is a blasphemer.

Thank you. You have made my day. They accused Jesus of blasphemy and He was a good guy. His accusers were not. Don't worry about it.