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No I wouldn't, but it would have to be proved heretical according to what is actually written in the Bible.
And this I have found to often be the problem. Many have gone by man/theologians/ scholars and ended up with beliefs that contradict the plainest of scripture
I can say with utter sincerity if any belief of mine could be shown to contradict plain scripture(and not be endorsed by scripture) I would change that belief, I hope I would not have such a wrong belief in the first place as I simply go by what is written in the Bible.
In fact from what I read I would say that most Christians put the wisdom of man before the plain words of the Bible
And this I have found to often be the problem. Many have gone by man/theologians/ scholars and ended up with beliefs that contradict the plainest of scripture
I can say with utter sincerity if any belief of mine could be shown to contradict plain scripture(and not be endorsed by scripture) I would change that belief, I hope I would not have such a wrong belief in the first place as I simply go by what is written in the Bible.
In fact from what I read I would say that most Christians put the wisdom of man before the plain words of the Bible
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Certain beliefs have tremendous appeal to the natural man and the natural mind. They are easy to believe, and seem to have great benefit. Most of these beliefs are false. Not that there is not benefit in knowing Jesus Christ and through Him the Father, because there is. But the costs is the complete remaking of our life into a life after His life. Either this remaking is accomplished here in this world through actual grace, through drawing near to God through Jesus, or it will be accomplished at His judgment seat. If there, we will suffer great loss, being saved as if by fire.
Most of the things we want to believe are things which are easy. They make salvation seem easy, without cost or obligation. Or, if there is obligation, it is to the organization which presented the belief in the first place. But deep down, we know that we are under obligation, to Jesus Christ. And this obligation is that we are no longer our own, we were bought with a price.
Jesus saves us for one reason, just one. He saves us in order to reconcile us back to God. He had this ministry of reconciliation when He was on the earth, and we have this ministry from Him.
All this to say, that when one has been reconciled to God through Jesus Christ, they are saved, and I do not believe that they can be lost, for no one and no thing can take them out of His hand.
You and VW can judge or pronounce judgment against the church, any of its practices or those that God has raised up to preach and teach but I will not, whether you consider them Pharisaical or not. If you want to judge sin in a believer's life, go right ahead but I will not. Christ is the head of His church and the one who was judged and paid for all their sin, it is His job to judge not mine (1Cor 4:5).
Paul didn't even judge himself (1Cor 4:3) but you wouldn't know anything about that. You want to judge whether a sinner is saved or not because of what they practice, go right ahead, but I thought we should be giving sinners the gospel and that includes grace. Only self-righteous people judge the sins and shortcomings of others. The world's greatest past time is judging others, slandering others, being critical of others even constructively, and that is part of the mystery of iniquity that leads to the spirit of antichrist that is anti-mercy and anti-grace. According to (Jm 4:11) judging your brother is evil. The world and carnally minded Christians do not practice mercy that rejoices against judgment (Jm 2:13). They like to judge others and because they do they will be judged in the same measure (Mt 7:1,2).
When a brother is overtaken in a fault, we don't judge him, we go to him alone to restore our fallen brother through mercy and grace and our love thinks no evil nor practices any ill thinking toward him (Gal 6:1, 1Cor 13:6, Rom 13:10) because love covers a multitude of sins (Jm 5:20, 1Pt 4:8). LBG, go right ahead and make all the judgments you want, heap them high if that is what you desire, but know this that in the measure and way you judge it shall be measured back to you again.
PS - You know why the elder brother of (Lk 15) didn't get the fatted calf to celebrate with his friends because he always judged his brother's sin and it came out when his younger brother came back to be restored. He wouldn't celebrate with the others, he told his father off and just what he thought of his younger brother. This elder brother worked hard in the fields but did not understand anything about mercy and grace and how to restore those who have fallen. He couldn't enter into the joy of seeing his own brother, who was dead but is alive again, being fully restored by his father, the robe, the ring, the shoes and the fatted calf and those of his father's house rejoice with him. The father's heart was filled with mercy and anticipation for his son's return but the elder brother couldn't care less if his younger brother came back or not.
I have seen and been a part of this kind of restoration many times in the local assembly and what great joy there is in the midst of God's people because of the Father's heart that is full of mercy (Ps 86:15, Jm 3:17).
Paul didn't even judge himself (1Cor 4:3) but you wouldn't know anything about that. You want to judge whether a sinner is saved or not because of what they practice, go right ahead, but I thought we should be giving sinners the gospel and that includes grace. Only self-righteous people judge the sins and shortcomings of others. The world's greatest past time is judging others, slandering others, being critical of others even constructively, and that is part of the mystery of iniquity that leads to the spirit of antichrist that is anti-mercy and anti-grace. According to (Jm 4:11) judging your brother is evil. The world and carnally minded Christians do not practice mercy that rejoices against judgment (Jm 2:13). They like to judge others and because they do they will be judged in the same measure (Mt 7:1,2).
When a brother is overtaken in a fault, we don't judge him, we go to him alone to restore our fallen brother through mercy and grace and our love thinks no evil nor practices any ill thinking toward him (Gal 6:1, 1Cor 13:6, Rom 13:10) because love covers a multitude of sins (Jm 5:20, 1Pt 4:8). LBG, go right ahead and make all the judgments you want, heap them high if that is what you desire, but know this that in the measure and way you judge it shall be measured back to you again.
PS - You know why the elder brother of (Lk 15) didn't get the fatted calf to celebrate with his friends because he always judged his brother's sin and it came out when his younger brother came back to be restored. He wouldn't celebrate with the others, he told his father off and just what he thought of his younger brother. This elder brother worked hard in the fields but did not understand anything about mercy and grace and how to restore those who have fallen. He couldn't enter into the joy of seeing his own brother, who was dead but is alive again, being fully restored by his father, the robe, the ring, the shoes and the fatted calf and those of his father's house rejoice with him. The father's heart was filled with mercy and anticipation for his son's return but the elder brother couldn't care less if his younger brother came back or not.
I have seen and been a part of this kind of restoration many times in the local assembly and what great joy there is in the midst of God's people because of the Father's heart that is full of mercy (Ps 86:15, Jm 3:17).
I wonder how many people on this website would believe that someone could be in a saved state if ten years after conversion and throughout those ten years since conversion the person had continuously got drunk, continuously had affairs, continuously beat their wife and never read the Bible
You seem to me to have a 'head theology' that does not stand up to much plain scripture
Someone commented that you had an 'easy believism'
The strange thing is you tell me I have the spirit of antichrist, therefore I cannot be saved, but anyone who acts as I have described can indeed be saved
Wisdom is always proved right by her inconsistencies
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E
Amen. I think so many people like to use 2 Thess 2: 15 to prove to themselves or others doctrines they believe which are not "proven" by scripture.
Any doctrine not proven by scripture is a doctrine of men. And should not be seen as coming from Gods. I think if God wanted us to know a truth, He would have made sure it was placed in his inspired word given to us.
Any doctrine not proven by scripture is a doctrine of men. And should not be seen as coming from Gods. I think if God wanted us to know a truth, He would have made sure it was placed in his inspired word given to us.
E
Nice post. I would just add that He saved us for another reason also. To do the "works he created us to do" God did not save us to sit on our chairs and do nothing. Or continue to live as we did before, as sorta "get out of jail free" card many want to teach. He made us his children. and as you correctly said, will never kick us out of his family. But at the same time he drafted us into the spiritual battle, and expects us to be a part of his army to enter the gates of hell, and rescue other people and bring them to his family. To help our brothers and sisters. To be a light into the world. The awsome thing is. Scripture states clearly that although not every one will be "superchristian" and many will struggle. Everyone who is saved will through their saving faith do works. Not to be saved, But as their gratefull hearts to what God has done for them.
E
James speaks of this.
22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was.
4 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? (Notice James says this person confesses to have faith, he did not admit he really had it)
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. (dead = no life. A faith that has no life is no faith at all)
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
Here James brings it all together. He is saying, lets compare our faith. I will show you mine with works. You show me your without works. And then he tells them the truth. You said you had faith. you believe in God. Well thats good, but demons believe and tremble. But if you say you have faith. but have no works, your faith is dead. And he calls them a "foolish man"
Notice. Paul tells the jewish christians and those following them that if they add works to try to "perfect faith" they are fools. (Pharisee-ism)
James said if they said they had faith. but have no works, they are fools. (licentiousness)
thus we see that the authors are speaking to two different audiences. And thus their appearant contradictions are shown to not contradict at all.
22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was.
4 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? (Notice James says this person confesses to have faith, he did not admit he really had it)
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. (dead = no life. A faith that has no life is no faith at all)
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
Here James brings it all together. He is saying, lets compare our faith. I will show you mine with works. You show me your without works. And then he tells them the truth. You said you had faith. you believe in God. Well thats good, but demons believe and tremble. But if you say you have faith. but have no works, your faith is dead. And he calls them a "foolish man"
Notice. Paul tells the jewish christians and those following them that if they add works to try to "perfect faith" they are fools. (Pharisee-ism)
James said if they said they had faith. but have no works, they are fools. (licentiousness)
thus we see that the authors are speaking to two different audiences. And thus their appearant contradictions are shown to not contradict at all.
OK I will
If I am honest I see myself as not someone who could be a preacher/teacher of the word having let God down so badly, and also in my life now I know I have not given God everything he requires of me.
Therefore I do not believe I can be a teacher/preacher of the word at this time. I guess from what you wrote the same must apply to you also
But this does not stop me from coming onto a Christian chat site and giving my opinions of scripture. If itr did I guess only perfect specimens could partake on such sites
If I am honest I see myself as not someone who could be a preacher/teacher of the word having let God down so badly, and also in my life now I know I have not given God everything he requires of me.
Therefore I do not believe I can be a teacher/preacher of the word at this time. I guess from what you wrote the same must apply to you also
But this does not stop me from coming onto a Christian chat site and giving my opinions of scripture. If itr did I guess only perfect specimens could partake on such sites
The Lord Jesus Christ said this in (Jn 6:29) ...'This is the work of God, that you believe on Him whom God has sent'. When we believe and call upon the name of the Lord (God's Son) we are saved and justified by faith (Rom 10:13,14, Gal 2:16) without the works of the law or the works of any righteousness that is outside the righteousness of faith (Eph 2:8,9, Rom 3:22, 4:13, 9:30, 10:6).
What was the work Abraham did to bring forth the promise of Isaac? He believed and staggered not at the promise (Rom 4:20). He even sinned with Hagar (the handmaid) through the request of Sara his wife but that did not stop the promise.
When Abraham took Isaac up the mount and was ready to offer his promised son Isaac, God was testing his faith through the promised son He had given him (Heb 11:17). This offering was a work of faith because God had already imputed righteousness to Abraham when he believed the promise (Rom 4:19-25) and the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith (Rom 1:17). Abraham never took the life of his son but was willing to offer him up knowing that God could raise him up (Heb 11:19) who was faithful who had promised (Heb 11:11). The demons believe because they know there is one God and have seen Him and been with Him in heaven but they do not abide in His promises or trust in the living God. This is what James is speaking to when he speaks of being justified by works also.
It like this; God gives a promise, we believe the promise, God imputes righteousness (that we believed) to our account, God performs and brings to past what He has promised and He tests the faith of those who the promise was given. Faith without works is dead only when there is no promise to believe, no righteousness to impute and no fruit unto perfection. God performs it all and the work that we do is to believe.
What was the work Abraham did to bring forth the promise of Isaac? He believed and staggered not at the promise (Rom 4:20). He even sinned with Hagar (the handmaid) through the request of Sara his wife but that did not stop the promise.
When Abraham took Isaac up the mount and was ready to offer his promised son Isaac, God was testing his faith through the promised son He had given him (Heb 11:17). This offering was a work of faith because God had already imputed righteousness to Abraham when he believed the promise (Rom 4:19-25) and the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith (Rom 1:17). Abraham never took the life of his son but was willing to offer him up knowing that God could raise him up (Heb 11:19) who was faithful who had promised (Heb 11:11). The demons believe because they know there is one God and have seen Him and been with Him in heaven but they do not abide in His promises or trust in the living God. This is what James is speaking to when he speaks of being justified by works also.
It like this; God gives a promise, we believe the promise, God imputes righteousness (that we believed) to our account, God performs and brings to past what He has promised and He tests the faith of those who the promise was given. Faith without works is dead only when there is no promise to believe, no righteousness to impute and no fruit unto perfection. God performs it all and the work that we do is to believe.
You have your answer and the following must apply to all. I also think that VW would discern that the following passage falls under the new commandment.
Phil 2:3-5
3 Do nothing from factional motives [through contentiousness, strife, selfishness, or for unworthy ends] or prompted by conceit and empty arrogance. Instead, in the true spirit of humility (lowliness of mind) let each regard the others as better than and superior to himself [thinking more highly of one another than you do of yourselves].
4 Let each of you esteem and look upon and be concerned for not [merely] his own interests, but also each for the interests of others. 5 Let this same attitude and purpose and [humble] mind be in you which was in Christ Jesus: [Let Him be your example in humility:]
Phil 2:3-5
3 Do nothing from factional motives [through contentiousness, strife, selfishness, or for unworthy ends] or prompted by conceit and empty arrogance. Instead, in the true spirit of humility (lowliness of mind) let each regard the others as better than and superior to himself [thinking more highly of one another than you do of yourselves].
4 Let each of you esteem and look upon and be concerned for not [merely] his own interests, but also each for the interests of others. 5 Let this same attitude and purpose and [humble] mind be in you which was in Christ Jesus: [Let Him be your example in humility:]
My friend and brother in Christ,
None of us are qualified to preach the gospel. I will tell you something I am afraid of, besides the Lord. That I might preach to another from my own strength, from and with my own words. I know that when we preach the gospel, we are messing around with the eternal salvation of another person. I know that if I preach in any other way that by and in that through and from the Holy Spirit, that I will at best be not heard. The worst possible outcome is that I be heard and the person believes on account of my words. Somewhere in there is that they hear the words that I have spoken, and knowing them for what they are, discounts salvation from every other source.
Everyone who loves the light comes to the light, that their deeds might be manifest as having been wrought in God.
None of us are worthy to speak the words of the gospel of Jesus Christ. And none of us can speak those words in our own power and have the outcome which God desires. This is why Paul wanted to go somewhere, anywhere that the name of Jesus had not been heard. Because so many were going and preaching in their own power, and had filled the ears of the people with the words of men.
In Christ,
vic
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go look at this video and tll me what ya think,if you cant see it tell me that too and ill try to load it diferently
go look at this video and tll me what ya think,if you cant see it tell me that too and ill try to load it diferently