Torah Observant Christians.

[SUNDOWNSAM]

you sir are a liar. I understood you quite well,

good Day.

Eternally-gratefull, I have one question to ask you... are willfully committing adultery like you posted on another topic? Yes or no. According to what you stated you are willfully committing adultery, so please answer me and give me a explanation how you are saved if you are willfully committing adultery? This is what you wrote... I am divorced and remarried. Technically I am willfully committing adultry am I saved? You did not indicate that this was an example, it appears to be an absolute statement.

So, I will have to ask with your person please respond because you will not respond when you are put in a position that backfires.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How so? Please be specific.

Pretty much everything I read was in error.

ihave followed dispensationalism my whole life, and do not or heard most of them.

now some may, don’t get me wrong,

I will get more specific and try to point out what I see soon.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

-----------------------

Don't the truth hurts?

Everyone that have read your post gathered that you are not only a liar, but you have to be a young person who needs the grow up, you quesition did Yeshua lie, did the Apostle lie

Dude I am done with you

you made posts insisting you can keep the law

i showed how it was I possible in my view

you ignored my posts and kept insisting I read you posts because I misrepresented you

so I asked you point blank, do you believe you can follow the law theee time, YES or NO,

like a child you refused to answer either way and went on rants,

when I finally answered for you myself, you did not deny what I said was true,

I was right about what youbelieve

yet here you are crying like a child and attacking me for no reason

good day sir!

I will no longer feed your rants.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Eternally-gratefull, I have one question to ask you... are willfully committing adultery like you posted on another topic? Yes or no. According to what you stated you are willfully committing adultery, so please answer me and give me a explanation how you are saved if you are willfully committing adultery? This is what you wrote... I am divorced and remarried. Technically I am willfully committing adultry am I saved? You did not indicate that this was an example, it appears to be an absolute statement.

So, I will have to ask with your person please respond because you will not respond when you are put in a position that backfires.

i said that to make a point in that thread, as you see the person I was discussing with is now banned,

let me ask you a question

are you sinning? Or are you perfect.

according to the law you must be perfect,

if you are not perfect, you are just as guilty as I am, Saul/Paul was, David was, Abraham was, everyone in this room is,

and according to the law, you are cursed, and will suffer hell for eternity apart from the grace of God,

for the second and last time I am done with you

you just proved your true self, and I refuse to converse with proud people who have to prove they are right at all costs.,

phariseeism lives strong today, you are proof of this.

Good day sir

when you reach sinless perfection and by your power arr Truly following the law, you can judge me,

but since then bible says neither one of us will make it to that height of maturity, you will never be given that right, I suggest instead, you better remove the plank from your own eye,

you are willfully sinning by bearing false witness, your pride is willfully attacking, because you feel slighted, and I am sure I can come up with some. more willful sins are are engaging in, but I will not judge you for that.

instead I will pray for you

i will pray you find the true path to sanctification, (the law of love) the true path to walking in the spirit, (by loving as God loves) and the true path to becoming like Christ (self sacrifice, others focused, not self focused.)

again, good day sir,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Oviously

So yes and no questions should never be answered yes and no?

instead we should make large paragraphs which people have to stumble through, and try to guess. (Ask long time members how many people have done this just in the recent past!)

obviously he was afraid of a yes and no answer. That’s why he did what he did

,any people have come into christian chat making the same arguments he makes. And then get mad when others who know what they are saying, give and apposing view, and they get mad claiming we are not reading them, when we have read them prety much word for word for years now.

And remember,

I made points of opposition, he has yet to remark on any one of my points, he instead keeps making the same argument over and over,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How so? Please be specific.

1. May be Arminian or modified Calvinist. Almost never 5-point Calvinist. Ihave yet to meet a calvinist, and I am neither arminian nor calvinist, I am strongly apposed to Arminianism, and at severe odds with calvinistic thinking


.2. Stresses 'literal' interpretation of the Bible. When it comes to prophecy yes, understands ther are parts of scripture which are symbolic in nature, such as parables, that should not be taken literally

3. Usually does not accept the idea of the 'Analogy of Faith.' Never heard of this, can you explain?

4. 'Israel' always means only the literal, physical descendants of Jacob. Wrong, not true by any means, depends on context.

5. 'Israel of God' in Gal. 6:16 means physical Israel alone. Peace and earth on them and Israel. Ie ther are some not of israel. At lease as a quick read what I saw, could go either way,

6. God has 2 peoples with 2 separate destinies: Israel (earthly) and the Church (heavenly). God made two promises . One promise is offered to all mankind and is heavenly, one promise is made to one nation, and is eternal here on earth, I do not like how that was worded, so I corrected it, there are not two people. Their are 2 promises. The first group includes all people, Isreal gentile, male femal, man woman free slave etc etc..

7. The Church was born at Pentecost. the church began when God placed animal skins on Adam and Eve, and has been growing ever since,

8. The Church was not prophesied as such in the O.T. but was a hidden mystery until the N.T. True, as far as the church in it’s form today is concerned. Yet at same time it was also revealed in the OT, see romans 11 where paul points this fact out.

9. All O.T. prophecies for 'Israel' are for literal Israel, not the Church.' again false. Context rules


10. God's main purpose in history is literal Israel. Again false. gods main purpose in history was to save mankind, through the seed of Abraham, Israel was the means, and as such, was given priviledges and a gift


11. The Church is a parenthesis in God's program for the ages. Gods program is the same, grace through faith. That has never changed, the church is a point where as God prophesied, where the gentiles are given the responsibility Israel squandered, to represent God on earth.


12. The main heir to Abraham's covenant was Isaac and literal Israel. true,and they were given specific promises, namely land, which God said would be theirs forever. Also the mai seed (Jesus) came through this, not sure why any would argue against this,

13. There was no eternal Covenant of Redemption within the Trinity. what?.

14. There was no Covenant of Works with Adam in the Garden of Eden. for Salvation, never, for sanctification always again context

15. There was no Covenant of Grace concerning Adam. False

16. Israel was rash to accept the Covenant at Mt. Sinai.16. rash? Please explain,

17. The 'New Covenant' of Jer. 31:31- 34 is only for literal Israel and is not the New Covenant of Lk.22:20.17. jeremiah is for Isreal and all nations. The new covenant of luke is also for all people. This guy does not seem to know what he is talking about

18. God's program in history is mainly through separate dispensations. Dispensations are a way to put the history of mankind into bullet points, to make it easier to follow context of what is going on at that time. Nothing more nothing less

19. Some Dispensationalists have said that O. T. sinners were saved by works. Sadly yes this is true, they are in serious error

20. Most Dispensationalists teach that men in the O.T. were saved by faith in a revelation peculiar to their dispensation, but this did not include faith in the Messiah as their sin-bearer. Well since the OT never called the suffering servant the messiah, but instead the servant of God. No one could have faith in the messiah died g for their sins in the OT.

I will have to get to the rest later, I need to get ready for work,

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

Dude I am done with you

you made posts insisting you can keep the law

i showed how it was I possible in my view

you ignored my posts and kept insisting I read you posts because I misrepresented you

so I asked you point blank, do you believe you can follow the law theee time, YES or NO,

like a child you refused to answer either way and went on rants,

when I finally answered for you myself, you did not deny what I said was true,

I was right about what youbelieve

yet here you are crying like a child and attacking me for no reason

good day sir!

I will no longer feed your rants.

--------------------------

Liar, your phrase dude is telling me all about you! GROW UP!

Before you said you new my answer, but now you are saying I refused to answer it. Everyone that read my post new I answered yes. You are just like the others, cannot respond accordingly, I read several of your past post and apparently, many are tell you the same thing, but because of your narcissistic disordered behavior you will never see it.

I am not attacking you, I am pointing you out as a liar and one who cannot respond accordingly, letting everyone know about you and many on the board already know about you, in other words, you are marked as a person who no one will take serious. GROW UP!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

--------------------------

Liar, your phrase dude is telling me all about you! GROW UP!

Before you said you new my answer, but now you are saying I refused to answer it. Everyone that read my post new I answered yes. You are just like the others, cannot respond accordingly, I read several of your past post and apparently, many are tell you the same thing, but because of your narcissistic disordered behavior you will never see it. GROW UP!

Your about ready to be put on report

if I was you I would stop attacking people. And probably just put me on ignore.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I will have to ask for the rooms forgiveness

i came in here hoping to have some discussion, but As we have witnessed, with some people, that is not possible

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here is how do answer yes and no questions

1. no, I do not believe that (then if you want explain why

2. yes, I do believe that ( if you want explain why)

when someone asks a yes or not questions, they ask it for a reason, most likely they know your answer, but they want you to put it in righting

when this is the case, they are most likely NOT going to read your rant, they did not ask you to explain what you believe, they asked yes or now

sadly it is becoming all to often when people are asked yes and no questions they refuse to,answer. Yes or no.i a, not sure if they are afraid. If they know the answer will show they are wrong or what

when I came in, the poster in question was saying he believes christian growth happens when we follow the law

i made an apposing remarks, because I disagreed,

that started this whole fiasco I call it,

when I finally asked the yes and no question SOLELY for the purpose of showing the person I DID understand what he was saying

everyone witnessed what occured

thats what happens when you refuse to answer a yes with a yes and a no with a no.

the last few points I made is for the mods so they can see the context of what I was saying without having to read a bunch of posts,

 

[mailmandan]

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

i said that to make a point in that thread, as you see the person I was discussing with is now banned,

let me ask you a question

are you sinning? Or are you perfect.

according to the law you must be perfect,

if you are not perfect, you are just as guilty as I am, Saul/Paul was, David was, Abraham was, everyone in this room is,

and according to the law, you are cursed, and will suffer hell for eternity apart from the grace of God,

for the second and last time I am done with you

you just proved your true self, and I refuse to converse with proud people who have to prove they are right at all costs.,

phariseeism lives strong today, you are proof of this.

Good day sir

when you reach sinless perfection and by your power arr Truly following the law, you can judge me,

but since then bible says neither one of us will make it to that height of maturity, you will never be given that right, I suggest instead, you better remove the plank from your own eye,

you are willfully sinning by bearing false witness, your pride is willfully attacking, because you feel slighted, and I am sure I can come up with some. more willful sins are are engaging in, but I will not judge you for that.

instead I will pray for you

i will pray you find the true path to sanctification, (the law of love) the true path to walking in the spirit, (by loving as God loves) and the true path to becoming like Christ (self sacrifice, others focused, not self focused.)

again, good day sir,

---------------------
Your comment is not about a person that got banned, it is about an absolute statement you made, if it was not true then you should go back and correct that or have it deleted if you can.

Another childish question, am I sinning? I should bow down before God every day because we do sin not even being aware of it. Again, there you go with the law, apparently, you never read anything I postage. Question, did I ever say that the law makes me God's righteousness and if so, show me. Where in the Scriptures does it say that according to the law on is perfect? Is that in your bible?
Yeshua tood the curse of the law to the cross that is why a person who commits adultery will not get stone, but the sin of adultery is still present, right? You will not answer this because you will put yourself in a position that you would have to admit that the law still exist, just like you did with your comment on adultery and you have not even realized it.

Did you read my statement of faith? No! That is because you read nothing I posted, you think you have all the answer and the moment you read something you disagree with you stop reading and attack. GROW UP and learn to read.

About proud people, proud people are people with a narcissistic disordered behaviour and I pointed that in you, not to mention, everyone is noticing you, do you know that?

you just proved your true self, and I refuse to converse with proud people who have to prove they are right at all
As I stated, people like you make assumptions, make false accusations and now you are calling me a pharisee, why, because you are put in a position that you cannot truthfully respond, that is what people like you do. Read my creed then tell me if I am a pharisees, but you do not like to read.

About a plank, this is not about a plank this is about being honest, respond truth, stop make false accusations and about pointing out lies when have pointed out in you. People like you when they cannot respond truthfully they will immediately start throwing the plank verse.

You will not judge me because what comes out of your mouth will be what you are.

I have learned in the believers life that when a person say I will pray for you, that person probably don't pray. Do you really pray? Don't respond, but be honest to yourself.

About this law of law that you talk about, through my post I was talking about loving God and loving they neighbor and as we walk in the Spirit, the Spirit will fulfill the righteousness of the law. Therefore, it is about seeking from the kingdom of God and his righteousness. We are made God's righteousness, why we are told to seek his righteousness? Don't answer!
Again, GROW UP!

Something just came to my attention... To ignore people like you and from this moment on I will.

Word of encouragement... read all what is said even if you decision, put you view on the table, respond accordingly and if you do not have the answer say so and tell the person you will get back. Not making false accusations, stop fabrication statements that were not said. When you do all this you will be a better person and it will be a pleasure talking to you. This is why I have high respect for posthuman.

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

Your about ready to be put on report

if I was you I would stop attacking people. And probably just put me on ignore.

-----------------

That is what people like you do just shows me you are young. Put me on report, I do not live my life on this board not to mention, I will put you also on report. I will do it now!

---------------------
Your comment is not about a person that got banned, it is about an absolute statement you made, if it was not true then you should go back and correct that or have it deleted if you can.

Another childish question, am I sinning? I should bow down before God every day because we do sin not even being aware of it. Again, there you go with the law, apparently, you never read anything I postage. Question, did I ever say that the law makes me God's righteousness and if so, show me. Where in the Scriptures does it say that according to the law on is perfect? Is that in your bible?
Yeshua tood the curse of the law to the cross that is why a person who commits adultery will not get stone, but the sin of adultery is still present, right? You will not answer this because you will put yourself in a position that you would have to admit that the law still exist, just like you did with your comment on adultery and you have not even realized it.

Did you read my statement of faith? No! That is because you read nothing I posted, you think you have all the answer and the moment you read something you disagree with you stop reading and attack. GROW UP and learn to read.

About proud people, proud people are people with a narcissistic disordered behaviour and I pointed that in you, not to mention, everyone is noticing you, do you know that?

you just proved your true self, and I refuse to converse with proud people who have to prove they are right at all
As I stated, people like you make assumptions, make false accusations and now you are calling me a pharisee, why, because you are put in a position that you cannot truthfully respond, that is what people like you do. Read my creed then tell me if I am a pharisees, but you do not like to read.

About a plank, this is not about a plank this is about being honest, respond truth, stop make false accusations and about pointing out lies when have pointed out in you. People like you when they cannot respond truthfully they will immediately start throwing the plank verse.

You will not judge me because what comes out of your mouth will be what you are.

I have learned in the believers life that when a person say I will pray for you, that person probably don't pray. Do you really pray? Don't respond, but be honest to yourself.

About this law of law that you talk about, through my post I was talking about loving God and loving they neighbor and as we walk in the Spirit, the Spirit will fulfill the righteousness of the law. Therefore, it is about seeking from the kingdom of God and his righteousness. We are made God's righteousness, why we are told to seek his righteousness? Don't answer!
Again, GROW UP!

Something just came to my attention... To ignore people like you and from this moment on I will.

Word of encouragement... read all what is said even if you decision, put you view on the table, respond accordingly and if you do not have the answer say so and tell the person you will get back. Not making false accusations, stop fabrication statements that were not said. When you do all this you will be a better person and it will be a pleasure talking to you. This is why I have high respect for posthuman.

Here is how do answer yes and no questions

1. no, I do not believe that (then if you want explain why

2. yes, I do believe that ( if you want explain why)

when someone asks a yes or not questions, they ask it for a reason, most likely they know your answer, but they want you to put it in righting

when this is the case, they are most likely NOT going to read your rant, they did not ask you to explain what you believe, they asked yes or now

sadly it is becoming all to often when people are asked yes and no questions they refuse to,answer. Yes or no.i a, not sure if they are afraid. If they know the answer will show they are wrong or what

when I came in, the poster in question was saying he believes christian growth happens when we follow the law

i made an apposing remarks, because I disagreed,

that started this whole fiasco I call it,

when I finally asked the yes and no question SOLELY for the purpose of showing the person I DID understand what he was saying

everyone witnessed what occured

thats what happens when you refuse to answer a yes with a yes and a no with a no.

the last few points I made is for the mods so they can see the context of what I was saying without having to read a bunch of posts,

-----------------------

When it comes to a view one needs to put is view on the table follow by this YES or NO because by just saying YES or No one can conclude what they want.

By the way, I did report you and told them that the way you talk to people someone had to tell you to GROW UP and I that I told you to GROW UP.

When you take my encouragement advice you will see the difference and many will show you the respect you are looking for.

By the way, I have no problem with a person disagreeing, neither learning from a person, but just like I respond accordingly because I read, you need to do the same. I get many messages and try to respond to all accordingly even if it takes two day, but one thing I will not allow is a person fabricate statements that I did not say or fabricates lies and I do not care who it is. I respect the person who reads and respond accordingly, especially the person who says he does not have a response, but will get back.

 

[mailmandan]

Should Christians follow Torah? No. There is not a single command for the Gentile believers in the New Testament to tell them to do so.

I would strongly advice against going for the Torah observant movement because of the dangers it presents, two of my main concerns are:

-If they "keep torah" but say they do not do it for salvation, they tend to also put Christians into categories where the torah observant ones are the superior ones.
-If they "keep torah" for salvation purposes then we got salvation by works which is another Gospel that does not save.

Excellent post! We have seen our fair share of people from the Torah observant movement over the years on Christian Chat who "claim" they "keep torah" but not for salvation purposes, yet certainly present an attitude of superiority over Christians who are not of the Torah observant movement.

Tragically, we have also seen our fair share of people from the Torah observant movement on Christian Chat over the years whose theology culminates in salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works" which certainly is "another gospel" that does not save.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

-----------------

That is what people like you do just shows me you are young. Put me on report, I do not live my life on this board not to mention, I will put you also on report. I will do it now!


-----------------------

When it comes to a view one needs to put is view on the table follow by this YES or NO because by just saying YES or No one can conclude what they want.

By the way, I did report you and told them that the way you talk to people someone had to tell you to GROW UP and I that I told you to GROW UP.

When you take my encouragement advice you will see the difference and many will show you the respect you are looking for.

By the way, I have no problem with a person disagreeing, neither learning from a person, but just like I respond accordingly because I read, you need to do the same. I get many messages and try to respond to all accordingly even if it takes two day, but one thing I will not allow is a person fabricate statements that I did not say or fabricates lies and I do not care who it is. I respect the person who reads and respond accordingly, especially the person who says he does not have a response, but will get back.

1. Who said I put you on report (I said I am about to. Who is the one who can’t read?)
2 I asked yes and no to prove I understood what you where saying. Not because I questioned It. Your reason why had no bearing on my question at all. Context context!

Go ahead put me on repot. They will then see your posts. And saves me time

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Excellent post! We have seen our fair share of people from the Torah observant movement over the years on Christian Chat who "claim" they "keep torah" but not for salvation purposes, yet certainly present an attitude of superiority over Christians who are not of the Torah observant movement.

Tragically, we have also seen our fair share of people from the Torah observant movement on Christian Chat over the years whose theology culminates in salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works" which certainly is "another gospel" that does not save.

Paul said the law has a purpose. And when it completes its purpose in an individuals life it has been fulfilled in them
now we go to growing and learning how to be Christlike. Something the law will never teac you how to do. Because that was never it’s intended purpose

 

[mailmandan]

Paul said the law has a purpose. And when it completes its purpose in an individuals life it has been fulfilled in them now we go to growing and learning how to be Christlike. Something the law will never teac you how to do. Because that was never it’s intended purpose

Galatians 3:24 - Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Galatians 3:24 - Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Sanctification can’t be law. It does not show us how to okay command. It shows us how we have failed to live up to Gods standard because it proves a fact. All have sinned
I venture they are very few if any males on earth who has not fornicated other committee adultery
and I am not speaking as defined by the law. But as defined by God himself

The law does not show us all possible ways of committing those sins. In that area it is weak. Because that was never it’s intention

It says thou shalt not

It does not say thou shalt not and this is every way you can break it (the means of sin)

and this is how you keep from doing it (The means to obey)

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

1. Who said I put you on report (I said I am about to. Who is the one who can’t read?)
2 I asked yes and no to prove I understood what you where saying. Not because I questioned It. Your reason why had no bearing on my question at all. Context context!

Go ahead put me on repot. They will then see your posts. And saves me time

------------------

I know what you said, I read with understanding, but because you don't read you don't know what I said. By the way, I want them to read my post as well as others to show that people have problems with you. Don't respond to any of my post unless you read, respond and respect. You have not yet responded to the teacher of the law and Yeshua passage that I told you to read, why, because you will have to truthfully answer it, neither did you responded to Genesis 26:5.

By the way, I can show you from the Old Testament, how the Law and Grace worked together, but not that is your job to go look for it because if I send you to the passage you will not even read it, you have been impress with the teachings of men.

So, if you want to continue talking you need to read, respond and respect even if you disagree, but the Scriptures need to substantiate you view that means if you have to go to the original language.

 

[SUNDOWNSAM]

Should Christians follow Torah? No. There is not a single command for the Gentile believers in the New Testament to tell them to do so.

I would strongly advice against going for the Torah observant movement because of the dangers it presents, two of my main concerns are:

-If they "keep torah" but say they do not do it for salvation, they tend to also put Christians into categories where the torah observant ones are the superior ones.
-If they "keep torah" for salvation purposes then we got salvation by works which is another Gospel that does not save.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

When you say Torah, what are you referring to and you can elaborate? Answer this question so I can respond accordingly.