Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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The problem is two fold.....salvation is viewed from two different perspectives and we sometimes conflate the two.....Since God is eternal, not subject to time (timing for sure) and outside the construct of TIME he views salvation from his perspective....I.E. we were saved before the casting down of the world in his eyes because he knew we would believe (1st aspect) The 2nd aspect is from a humanistic view.....we are linear in our thinking due to time and being subject to time.....we are saved in our minds when we actually acknowledge JESUS by faith and the majority of the time view our salvation from a particular point of time in our physical lives......
Both are correct......but is not incorrect to say I was saved at such and such time even though I was saved before the earth was cast down in creation.....
Just for the record....God did not say DAVE was going to be saved and nothing he could do about it...God predetermined before he cast the world down in creation that ALL who are called and then ACKNOWLEDGE by faith shall be saved and received as a son/daughter of GOD.......God knew I would believe....hence I was saved in his eyes BEFORE the world was cast down even though I did not actually acknowledge him by faith until such and such date.
Both are correct......but is not incorrect to say I was saved at such and such time even though I was saved before the earth was cast down in creation.....
Just for the record....God did not say DAVE was going to be saved and nothing he could do about it...God predetermined before he cast the world down in creation that ALL who are called and then ACKNOWLEDGE by faith shall be saved and received as a son/daughter of GOD.......God knew I would believe....hence I was saved in his eyes BEFORE the world was cast down even though I did not actually acknowledge him by faith until such and such date.
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You have got to be NEW HERE, I have had this discussion with numerous new people. I AM NOT A CALVINISTS AND NEVER HAVE BEEN.
I only believe in 3 of the 5 points of Calvinism. MOST Evangelical Christians will agree with me. WE ARE NOT CALVINISTS. Armenians will not have us, because we believe in three points of Calvinists, and CALVINISTS will not have us because of the 2 points I disagree with. AS FAR AS I KNOW, MOST OSAS BELIEVERS ARE Evangelical Christians. You can call us just normal Christians. We Evangelicals BURIED that Calvinists vs. Armenian Argument in the early 80's. So how come people keep wanting to dig that rotting corpse up ? ? ?
I only believe in 3 of the 5 points of Calvinism. MOST Evangelical Christians will agree with me. WE ARE NOT CALVINISTS. Armenians will not have us, because we believe in three points of Calvinists, and CALVINISTS will not have us because of the 2 points I disagree with. AS FAR AS I KNOW, MOST OSAS BELIEVERS ARE Evangelical Christians. You can call us just normal Christians. We Evangelicals BURIED that Calvinists vs. Armenian Argument in the early 80's. So how come people keep wanting to dig that rotting corpse up ? ? ?
God's salvation is conditional.....one must believe to be saved.....
Where I am going you cannot go/be, BECAUSE you believe NOT that I am he.
If you do not think God's salvation is conditional upon belief....not sure what you believe....
SIRS, WHAT MUST I DO to be SAVED <----BELIEVE
Where I am going you cannot go/be, BECAUSE you believe NOT that I am he.
If you do not think God's salvation is conditional upon belief....not sure what you believe....
SIRS, WHAT MUST I DO to be SAVED <----BELIEVE
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I know for sure, that I was GOING TO GO TO HADES, the night I had the PISTOL against my temple (IF I FINISHED PULLING THAT TRIGGER), as SURE OF THAT as I AM ALSO SURE THE HOLY SPIRIT IN MY HEART (HUMAN SPIRIT) BIRTHED my Dead Spirit INTO ETERNAL LIFE.
I AM ALSO SURE THIS VERSE IS THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH, AND DOES NOT CREATE A CONTRADICTION:
2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
I can follow all things back too the conditions that caused them until I ultimately follow them back to God. If I believed, by which verse do you say God has not caused me to believe? I will also have to do some concordance searching, I know you'll be asking the same thing of me. So until tomorrow night, God bless.
For the record, I will not argue the absolute biblical truth of choice and or the equally absurd arguments that Calvinists use to oppose the truth of choice.
EVEN JESUS had to disrobe from glory take flesh and CHOOSE.....
Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
EVEN JESUS had to disrobe from glory take flesh and CHOOSE.....
Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
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