Not By Works

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Tellion

Junior Member
Jan 8, 2003
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Unfair really to assume someone hates you for disagreeing.... then one has to defend oneself against their false assumptions ....

I hate being put in that position though. I will admit.
I'm not actually talking about you guys, you do realize that, right. I've enjoyed your parts of the conversation so far.
 

Tellion

Junior Member
Jan 8, 2003
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For the record, I will not argue the absolute biblical truth of choice and or the equally absurd arguments that Calvinists use to oppose the truth of choice.

EVEN JESUS had to disrobe from glory take flesh and CHOOSE.....

Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
Just so we're clear, you are referring to God's Divine authority as the insured Calvinist argument, right? Still don't think you specifically hate me.
 
Feb 1, 2020
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So the legalist is back after being banned......ok whine bag........
Do you think it possible to realise before yo die, that you can only speak for yourself. Its actually not possible. That is why we have to die daily with Christ to cease from ourselves, and enter the wisdom of God, but thank for explaining as I did not quite understand what motivated you except that if people didn't learn your language you would persecuted them. I though it was more the doctrine of nicolaitanes: dictator conqueror. Tho I suppose it's much the same.
 

Tellion

Junior Member
Jan 8, 2003
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For the record, I will not argue the absolute biblical truth of choice and or the equally absurd arguments that Calvinists use to oppose the truth of choice.

EVEN JESUS had to disrobe from glory take flesh and CHOOSE.....

Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
I just mean that if you're going to associate me with an argument while simultaneously calling it absurd, I should at least know which absurd argument I'm not going to be debating. 😉
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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No. I get daunted at trying to explain "God does all things for his own glory" to people...

Wow way to put on that hypocrite robe with the devisive accessories. It suits you.
That is your First Warning, for a Divisive attitude.
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
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Read it in context of the purpose/result clause.
It looks like the key is to consider, both, the tense of the verbs and the moods of those verbs together.

Either we have saving faith in Christ and a hope that is sure or else we don't. If hope does not continue, then that person's hope was not firmly rooted and established form the start.
Good exhortation and not all of these Hebrews were genuine believers throughout the book of Hebrews (Hebrews 3:8-14; 4:2-3; 6:4-9; 10:39; 12:15 etc..) which seems to trip up those in the NOSAS camp.
Genuine believers continue in sure hope. Make believers may start out with loud confidence and profession of hope, but later?
The Hebrews references you cite do not trip me up. They are problematic for osas because that doctrine has to explain why the writer tells unbelievers to continue in a profession of faith and hope that is fake and has never been real. Can you explain that?

"let us hold firmly to the faith we profess." - Hebrews 4:14

"23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful" - Hebrews 10:23

"35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward." - Hebrews 10:35


Your faulty human logic doesn't fit here.
Why is it faulty?
The faulty logic is saying the flashlight that shines forever means I will always have that flashlight.
That's totally illogical.
 

Judges1318

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2019
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The foreknowledge of God in your context, is by my estimation a conditionary statement, making God's salvation conditional. And I have a hard time believing that anything outside of God's own will, belief or otherwise, can be an influencer of God's actions.
Ultimately, salvation is conditional on whether or not the soil of one's heart has the inherent potential within itself to sustain the word of God in it. The soil itself cannot realize it's own potential for useful growth, if it has any. Not all soil does. It's only the merciful and gracious work of the husbandman working the land that can realize that potential. That's why even though the potential for salvation is an inherent quality of the soil itself that potential can only be realized by the grace and mercy of God.
 

Tellion

Junior Member
Jan 8, 2003
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That is your First Warning, for a Divisive attitude.
I'm not even sure you're reading my posts at this point, and you just want to assert your dominance. While you are succeeding in showing me neither, it's a little insulting that you feel you can argue with me without taking the time to actually reason out what I'm saying to you or what you're saying to me. I'm not sure how to appease you seeing as you haven't actually understood anything I've said. Aren't you supposed to be ignoring me anyway?
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
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I'm not even sure you're reading my posts at this point, and you just want to assert your dominance. While you are succeeding in showing me neither, it's a little insulting that you feel you can argue with me without taking the time to actually reason out what I'm saying to you or what you're saying to me. I'm not sure how to appease you seeing as you haven't actually understood anything I've said. Aren't you supposed to be ignoring me anyway?
This thread is largely an echo chamber, in case you have not realized. There is a group of people with the same view and they will respond very aggressively with name calling if you don't echo their view.

Since we are adults, it is fine, we can get on with our lives no matter what. But if you are in the educational field, this will be a good example of cyber bullying that is a reality for youths nowadays.

By liking one another's posts and not speaking up against such behavior, its like what the theme of 13 reasons why goes, where sharing hateful posts makes one an implicit supporter of the cyberbully, even if you do not add to the posts.
 

Tellion

Junior Member
Jan 8, 2003
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This thread is largely an echo chamber, in case you have not realized. There is a group of people with the same view and they will respond very aggressively with name calling if you don't echo their view.

Since we are adults, it is fine, we can get on with our lives no matter what. But if you are in the educational field, this will be a good example of cyber bullying that is a reality for youths nowadays.

By liking one another's posts and not speaking up against such behavior, its like what the theme of 13 reasons why goes, where sharing hateful posts makes one an implicit supporter of the cyberbully, even if you do not add to the posts.
Oh no, you misunderstand. I don't know that I disagree completely with the central theme of the room, and so far, those who actually engage are thoughtful in their response. If you aren't passionate about biblical error, then you're just "okay" with it, or in biblical terms, "luke–warm" I can't say I'd be as aggressive about it as some things I've seen here, but that believers are passionate about biblical truth is inspiring.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Before I go on, are you insinuating that I don't believe in the perseverance of the saints? Calvinists usually end up dropping the first two letters this day and age. So I don't say "once saved" it implies a moment in time "before God loved me"which there isn't. My BIBLICAL KNOWLEDGE taught me that.
That’s interesting, yes we were chosen before the foundation, so in effect your right,

ps welcome back.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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God's salvation is conditional.....one must believe to be saved.....

Where I am going you cannot go/be, BECAUSE you believe NOT that I am he.

If you do not think God's salvation is conditional upon belief....not sure what you believe....

SIRS, WHAT MUST I DO to be SAVED <----BELIEVE
the work of God we believe

believe is not a work or condition one can do to earn salvation

it is just receiving the gift God offers through his work.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Wow, you are a true Calvinist ? ? ? We have not had one of those in a very long time.
We have a few,, believe grandpa is. Great brother. And then some others I have on ignore. Not because they are calvinist, but because of their pride,

I have many calvinist brothers as friends
 
Mar 14, 2011
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That's impressive. Nobody else does... Hurt a little bit. It's humbling that you remember me though I can't place you. Thanks for that.
Some people come in with like names of old posters. It’s refreshing that old Members actually come back