A Distinction Between Tongues

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CS1

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May 23, 2012
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No evidence exists that the gifts came in any other way then through an Apostle's hands or through the two outpourings.
wrong
 

CS1

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If someone just started preaching the words of Jesus verbatim without a Bible to read from, upon the laying on of hands then you would have something.
well you have that in the very Bible it is called prophesying Hanna did it, mary did it, Elizabeth did it, Peter did it, King Saul did it all was done by the Holy Spirit. it is in Acts Cornelious and his house, and others.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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again very good question Tongues & interpretation in the context of a church setting as 1cor 14:5 layout is equal to prophesying.

5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,[b] but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues,[c] unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified. The church can be edified just as prophesy if there is an interpretation. This is why one who is speaking in tongues is to pray that THEY interpret. Then the church judges what is said by the word of God all of the word. If there is no interpretation the elders are to tell that person to pray in silence.

The idea that one is focusing on tongues is a strawman. The same question is why is one only having an issue with one Gift of the Holy Spirit they are 8 more. I do not focus on tongues nor do I on prophesying. It is the idea that they are not for today. I do not see that to be scriptural
Prophesying is bringing prophecy the tongue of God in other languages other than Hebrew alone .The last book in the bible is the Revelation. What is there to see if we do not have the perfect?
 
Jan 17, 2020
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I guess the instruction of the Holy Spirit given to us through Paul in the context of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit found in 1corthians is not seen as authoritative as your flow chart? Paul never would think after HE died that the gift of the Holy Spirit would cease.
You need to interpret 1 Corinthians according to Acts. Paul told them the gifts would cease. We see it happening in the Epistles when he left sick helpers behind. And had Timothy take medicine for his stomach.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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they have not ended and you have no scripture to support that comment. 1cor 13: 8-10 is not speaking of that you are reading into the word of God because you have bias .
I do have a bias for Christ. Just because you do not believe 1 Cor 13:8-10 does not make your unbelief authoritative.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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You need to interpret 1 Corinthians according to Acts. Paul told them the gifts would cease. We see it happening in the Epistles when he left sick helpers behind. And had Timothy take medicine for his stomach.
NO, you do not need to interpret 1 cor according to Acts. WE need to keep in context to the Corinthians and apply it as it is appropriate. Paul did not say the gifts would cease and there is no where the word of God where it states "The Gifts of the Holy Spirit will cease". No where. Context my friend Timothy was told to drink wine to help with most likely bad water he was drinking i.e for the stomach. and Jesus said those who are sick need a physician. FYI the guy who wrote Acts was a doctor.
 

CS1

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I do have a bias for Christ. Just because you do not believe 1 Cor 13:8-10 does not make your unbelief authoritative.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Notuptome 1cor 13:8-10 which I have read many times does not say " The gifts of the Holy Spirit will cease". You and those like you interjected that into the scripture and verse because of your bias against the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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How can you know of Christ except through the bible?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
The Holy Spirit revealed HIM through the preaching of the Gospel. 1cor 1:21

" For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe."

For your information Paul did not have a New Testament to read from. Nor did the early church of Acts. They had only the Old Testament and what ? The Eyewitnesses and testimony of them that Preached to those we see in Acts chapter 2 as Jesus commanded them to "GO and Preach the Gospel" . Thats how. And guess what, The Gifts of the Holy Spirit was with them and the Holy Spirit is with us to Today and so are HIS Gifts even the ones you hate. :)
 
Jan 17, 2020
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NO, you do not need to interpret 1 cor according to Acts. WE need to keep in context to the Corinthians and apply it as it is appropriate. Paul did not say the gifts would cease and there is no where the word of God where it states "The Gifts of the Holy Spirit will cease". No where. Context my friend Timothy was told to drink wine to help with most likely bad water he was drinking i.e for the stomach. and Jesus said those who are sick need a physician. FYI the guy who wrote Acts was a doctor.
Why don't you see this in Acts?

“Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.” (2 Timothy 4:20) (KJV 1900)

“Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.” (1 Timothy 5:23) (KJV 1900)

“Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all. Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.” (Galatians 4:12–15) (KJV 1900)

(alternate translation of the above passage) “you know that previously I preached the gospel to you because of a physical illness. You did not despise or reject me though my physical condition was a trial for you. On the contrary, you received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus Himself.” (Galatians 4:13–14)(HCSB)

“What happened to this sense of being blessed you had? For I testify to you that, if possible, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me.” (Galatians 4:15)(HCSB)

“For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.” (Philippians 2:26–27) (KJV 1900)

Paul left Trophimus in Miletus when he was sick (II Tim 4:20), and Epaphroditus was sick to the point of death (Phil 2:27). Timothy was encouraged to use wine for his stomach ailments (1 Tim 5:23). God never removed Paul's thorn in the flesh (II Cor 12:1-10).

Because the gifts ended just as Paul said they would.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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Why don't you see this in Acts?

“Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.” (2 Timothy 4:20) (KJV 1900)

“Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.” (1 Timothy 5:23) (KJV 1900)

“Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all. Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.” (Galatians 4:12–15) (KJV 1900)

(alternate translation of the above passage) “you know that previously I preached the gospel to you because of a physical illness. You did not despise or reject me though my physical condition was a trial for you. On the contrary, you received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus Himself.” (Galatians 4:13–14)(HCSB)

“What happened to this sense of being blessed you had? For I testify to you that, if possible, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me.” (Galatians 4:15)(HCSB)

“For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.” (Philippians 2:26–27) (KJV 1900)

Paul left Trophimus in Miletus when he was sick (II Tim 4:20), and Epaphroditus was sick to the point of death (Phil 2:27). Timothy was encouraged to use wine for his stomach ailments (1 Tim 5:23). God never removed Paul's thorn in the flesh (II Cor 12:1-10).

Because the gifts ended just as Paul said they would.
LOL what big stretch the Same JesuS who did not remove the thorn in the flesh also said my Grace is More than enough. Also you if you think that God forsake healing because Timothy was sick as to think this is proof the gifts of the Holy Spirit have stopped? Unbiblical and out of context completely
 
Jan 17, 2020
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LOL what big stretch the Same JesuS who did not remove the thorn in the flesh also said my Grace is More than enough. Also you if you think that God forsake healing because Timothy was sick as to think this is proof the gifts of the Holy Spirit have stopped? Unbiblical and out of context completely
Where are the signs and wonders in the Epistles? It means God already started removing the gifts.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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No evidence exists that the gifts came in any other way then through an Apostle's hands or through the two outpourings.
The examples you mention pertain to individuals receiving the Holy Ghost. They don't have anything to do with receiving Spiritual gifts.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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The examples you mention pertain to individuals receiving the Holy Ghost. They don't have anything to do with receiving Spiritual gifts.
The Spiritual Gifts are the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Tongues being the most obvious.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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We all have the Holy Spirit. Nobody has the Baptism since the death of the APostles.
The biblical record expresses that everyone must receive the infiltration of God's Holy Spirit into their body. This occurs via the baptism of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:1, 8:12-17, 10:44-48, 19:2-6) These recorded events depict how and when the Holy Spirit is given to mankind by God. Apostle Paul makes this clear to the Ephesus disciples in Acts 19:2-6. Paul's first words upon approaching the individuals is "Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed." His comment expresses that belief in the gospel and receiving the Holy Spirit take place separately.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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The biblical record expresses that everyone must receive the infiltration of God's Holy Spirit into their body. This occurs via the baptism of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:1, 8:12-17, 10:44-48, 19:2-6) These recorded events depict how and when the Holy Spirit is given to mankind by God. Apostle Paul makes this clear to the Ephesus disciples in Acts 19:2-6. Paul's first words upon approaching the individuals is "Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed." His comment expresses that belief in the gospel and receiving the Holy Spirit take place separately.
As I said, all believers have the gift of the Holy Spirit. The Baptism served its purpose just as Moses' miracles served his, and are not needed.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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The Spiritual Gifts are the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Tongues being the most obvious.
Receiving the infiltration of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues into one's body is the Baptism. After this occurs, the Holy Spirit can then distribute gifts useful for an individual's ministry. The Spiritual gifts such as, word of wisdom and knowledge, prophesy, discerning spirits, tongues and interpretation for edification of others, etc. flow through individual's for the purpose of fulfilling God's will prior to Jesus' return.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Receiving the infiltration of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues into one's body is the Baptism. After this occurs, the Holy Spirit can then distribute gifts useful for an individual's ministry. The Spiritual gifts such as, word of wisdom and knowledge, prophesy, discerning spirits, tongues and interpretation for edification of others, etc. flow through individual's for the purpose of fulfilling God's will prior to Jesus' return.
The gifts came only through an Apostle's hands as the Holy Spirit determined who got what. You are adding to scripture to say otherwise.
 

Wansvic

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The gifts came only through an Apostle's hands as the Holy Spirit determined who got what. You are adding to scripture to say otherwise.
Again, rightly dividing the word of truth comes into play in order to gain correct understanding.

There is a difference between ministry gifts given by Jesus during His ascension (Eph 4:8-13), and Spiritual gifts (1 Cor 12 & 14).

Ministry gifts, ie, apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor and teacher require one's ordination through the laying on of hands. This concept is seen in scriptures such as, 1 Timothy 4:14, 2 Tim. 1:6, Titus 1:5, Acts 6:6, 13:3.

Scripture confirms Timothy was a minister/pastor and an evangelist. And Titus was sent as the Apostle Paul's delegate to Corinth. And later traveled with Paul to Crete and stayed there to assist churches and ordain elders. These tasks are associated with the office of apostle, evangelist, and pastor.

Spiritual gifts are distributed by the Holy Spirit and do not require the laying on of hands:

"For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will." 1 Cor 12:8-11