The Doctrinal Belief of a Pre-Tribulation Resurrection. Is not spoken of in the Word of God. It was created by a sick and deranged woman

[Absolutely]

You know, assuming this was an evangelistic encounter, the testimony should have been focused on Jesus, and what he has done on the Cross.

If your focus isn't on this, but is on some weird story, then you are talking about the wrong thing anyways.

Testimonies are subjective and prove nothing. The Word of God is the foundation of truth. If you reason with someone from Scripture, then you're talking about solid ground.

Anytime I'm talking to a man, he might be lying. Therefore, anything he says is subject to doubt. If he tells an outlandish story, that is meaningless. Speaking the word of God is a different story.

I'll give you an example. Someone told me a story about how they met God in a vision, and this led to his conversion. Then, later on, he related information about other accounts that were not accurate to the truth. These were details I knew about. Now, I cannot help but think he may have been lying all along about his vision. I want to believe the guy, but now I cannot believe him. This is one of the few circumstances that I believed claims about visions. He is a friend of mine, and I like him, and am sadly disappointed about it. But such is the reality of people claiming visions that they may or may not have had.

If you think it is not the case then you believe your friends and favorite teachers are flawless deities.
My statement is a no brainer.
ANYONE you talk to or listen to long enough will take you someplace you disagree.
So you either ditch them or spit out the seeds and enjoy the watermellon.
I was witnessing to a Chinese lady the other day.
She was close to conversion and was interested. She said "I need to master the bible before I make a decision."
The Holy Spirit replied through me "you are owning this jeep right"?
Right"
You can't take apart the engine or transmission or know all about their workings right?
Right
The same with salvation. You do not have to know every dynamic of God to be saved.

You still enjoy your jeep without the knowledge.
I told her I got saved not knowing a thing about God and never regretted it

 

[Absolutely]

Pentecostals and others glory in their ignorance of church history. That's part of the reason why this thread meets with some level of resistance. They don't want to face that the nut doesn't fall far from the nut tree.

Boggus.
Another rumor is they never turn left in their cars.
A friend of a friend saw one of them do that
Smh

 

[Absolutely]

View attachment 212894

I asked a non dispensationalist
Who won the super bowl.
"What is that"was the reply.

(In answer to your silly rabbit trail)...has about the same merit

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Boggus.
Another rumor is they never turn left in their cars.
A friend of a friend saw one of them do that
Smh

Are you claiming that the origin of the pretribulation rapture was not related to

If you think it is not the case then you believe your friends and favorite teachers are flawless deities.
My statement is a no brainer.
ANYONE you talk to or listen to long enough will take you someplace you disagree.
So you either ditch them or spit out the seeds and enjoy the watermellon.
I was witnessing to a Chinese lady the other day.
She was close to conversion and was interested. She said "I need to master the bible before I make a decision."
The Holy Spirit replied through me "you are owning this jeep right"?
Right"
You can't take apart the engine or transmission or know all about their workings right?
Right
The same with salvation. You do not have to know every dynamic of God to be saved.

You still enjoy your jeep without the knowledge.
I told her I got saved not knowing a thing about God and never regretted it

So, you were saved without a preaching of the Gospel, which includes Jesus dying for sinners on the Cross?

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Church history is full of heresy.
The Catholics burned entire sects of believers and their writings .

Are you saying the heretical parts are to be adhered to also?

Ignorance is not bliss.

Church historians evaluate all the information that is available.

In the last 200 years, ignorance has been glorified in the Church by certain sects. I would not be involved with any such sect.

Understanding church history is fundamental to avoiding repetition of the same errors.

By the way, it is hilarious and inconsistent to me that Pentecostals expect us to accept their revelations, realizing that many of them are wild-eyed ignorant men, and ridicule reading books on theology or church history.

That's about the sum of it.

I have heard various people discredit the rest of Christianity, and theology, and apologetics, and church history. Yet, in the same conversation, they expect you to listen to them and their words, and their authority.

Their reasoning is apparent. Don't listen to this authority. Listen to me and my authority. Listen to me and my revelations.

And, I have pointed out this to them, by the way.

Their truth claims are indisputable. Don't read church history or theology or Christians from the past. Listen to ME.

By the way, it's the same claim cults make. The only difference is that these are professing Christians who aren't denying the Trinity or deity of Christ. They just have other whacky ideas they want you to believe.

It's pretty rare that I pay attention to anyone without a sound degree from a sound theological seminary, as far as being authoritative. Or, if I know that they have studied the same materials as myself, and arrived at similar conclusions. In other words, I don't pay much attention to non-Reformed guys. Their reasoning is sound. And, I absolutely do not give charismatics or Pentecostals much attention. I find many of them to be wild-eyed kooks. Who can blame me?

Your mileage may differ.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

I asked a non dispensationalist
Who won the super bowl.
"What is that"was the reply.

(In answer to your silly rabbit trail)...has about the same merit

Well...

Please answer this. I am assuming you are part of a tongues-speaking church.

Do the participants speak in tongues, one at a time, and does someone provide an interpretation for their speaking?

Or, do the tongues-speakers all babble at the same time, with no interpretation?

Which view does the Bible teach, and if they practice the latter, why are they being disobedient to Scripture?

In answering this question, I will assume that your view of tongues is correct.

Are you practicing it BIBLICALLY?

My understanding is almost no Pentecostal church follows these guidelines.

Do they speak one at a time, and does someone provide an interpretation for them?

 

[Absolutely]

Well...

Please answer this. I am assuming you are part of a tongues-speaking church.

Do the participants speak in tongues, one at a time, and does someone provide an interpretation for their speaking?

Or, do the tongues-speakers all babble at the same time, with no interpretation?

Which view does the Bible teach, and if they practice the latter, why are they being disobedient to Scripture?

In answering this question, I will assume that your view of tongues is correct.

Are you practicing it BIBLICALLY?

My understanding is almost no Pentecostal church follows these guidelines.

Do they speak one at a time, and does someone provide an interpretation for them?

Every time you use "babble" it makes me want to just put you on ignore.
I really do not have an issue with your cessationism.
You have not heard a word I have said.
You process every dynamic through your template.

I know who I am in Jesus. I know where he has taken me.

Your insulting use of terms is too tedious to continue with any constructive dialogue .

The worrisome dynamic is not whether the Holy Spirit inspires and speaks through believers. But Jesus is the same as is the Holy Spirit.
The thing is ,if He does,and you and your friends mock it, then take your harvest that is coming to you.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Every time you use "babble" it makes me want to just put you on ignore.
I really do not have an issue with your cessationism.
You have not heard a word I have said.
You process every dynamic through your template.

I know who I am in Jesus. I know where he has taken me.

Your insulting use of terms is too tedious to continue with any constructive dialogue .

The worrisome dynamic is not whether the Holy Spirit inspires and speaks through believers. But Jesus is the same as is the Holy Spirit.
The thing is ,if He does,and you and your friends mock it, then take your harvest that is coming to you.

In other words, I think you won't admit that your church DOESN'T practice tongues, whatever your conception is regarding that, in a biblical manner, which includes one person speaking at a time, and one or more interpreting for them.

So, if someone claiming to be a tongues-speaker is not even obedient to Scriptural commands regarding them, then what reason do we have to believe them?

None.

I don't mind it if you put me on ignore

 

[Absolutely]

Well...

Please answer this. I am assuming you are part of a tongues-speaking church.

Do the participants speak in tongues, one at a time, and does someone provide an interpretation for their speaking?

Or, do the tongues-speakers all babble at the same time, with no interpretation?

Which view does the Bible teach, and if they practice the latter, why are they being disobedient to Scripture?

In answering this question, I will assume that your view of tongues is correct.

Are you practicing it BIBLICALLY?

My understanding is almost no Pentecostal church follows these guidelines.

Do they speak one at a time, and does someone provide an interpretation for them?

""Are you practicing it BIBLICALLY?""

All you are stuck on is "interpretation" which would be ONLY IN AN ASSEMBLY.

Many times in praying in the spirit results have increased.
I don't need to know what was prayed to be overwhelmed that God moved for another person that needed victory.
The anointing is equipping to do a job. The anointing is given for purpose.
God is a God of purpose.
Jesus warned to Go to Jerusalem the upper room for equipping to fo ministry and walk in power.
You are so worried about oneupmanship you lost sight of purpose

 

[Absolutely]

Ignorance is not bliss.

Church historians evaluate all the information that is available.

In the last 200 years, ignorance has been glorified in the Church by certain sects. I would not be involved with any such sect.

Understanding church history is fundamental to avoiding repetition of the same errors.

By the way, it is hilarious and inconsistent to me that Pentecostals expect us to accept their revelations, realizing that many of them are wild-eyed ignorant men, and ridicule reading books on theology or church history.

That's about the sum of it.

I have heard various people discredit the rest of Christianity, and theology, and apologetics, and church history. Yet, in the same conversation, they expect you to listen to them and their words, and their authority.

Their reasoning is apparent. Don't listen to this authority. Listen to me and my authority. Listen to me and my revelations.

And, I have pointed out this to them, by the way.

Their truth claims are indisputable. Don't read church history or theology or Christians from the past. Listen to ME.

By the way, it's the same claim cults make. The only difference is that these are professing Christians who aren't denying the Trinity or deity of Christ. They just have other whacky ideas they want you to believe.

It's pretty rare that I pay attention to anyone without a sound degree from a sound theological seminary, as far as being authoritative. Or, if I know that they have studied the same materials as myself, and arrived at similar conclusions. In other words, I don't pay much attention to non-Reformed guys. Their reasoning is sound. And, I absolutely do not give charismatics or Pentecostals much attention. I find many of them to be wild-eyed kooks. Who can blame me?

Your mileage may differ.

Ignorance is not bliss.
So hopefully you learned the folly in what you guys formulated in your "interpreter" nonsense.

You even compounded your ignorance with "it was a mixed crowd"

Yeah I am sure that was the whole deal.
5 interpretations of 5 languages everywhere they preached.
So they took 5 interpreters everywhere they went..
Not even remotely plausable.

No we have it correct and we are authenticated by the word.
Your realm does not even have a starting place. And then wildly throws desperate "explanations and theories" to mock those stepping out.
Smh

 

[Absolutely]

In other words, I think you won't admit that your church DOESN'T practice tongues, whatever your conception is regarding that, in a biblical manner, which includes one person speaking at a time, and one or more interpreting for them.

So, if someone claiming to be a tongues-speaker is not even obedient to Scriptural commands regarding them, then what reason do we have to believe them?

None.

I don't mind it if you put me on ignore

Keep thinking and imagining.
You are stuck in dynamics that are false.

Over and over you complain about those with a deeper walk.
And your complaint is fear based that they have more of God than you.

That is the root of your malady.
You are fearful of others anointing.

 

[Absolutely]

In other words, I think you won't admit that your church DOESN'T practice tongues, whatever your conception is regarding that, in a biblical manner, which includes one person speaking at a time, and one or more interpreting for them.

Maybe you can form some police force to find these despicable people and lock them in some religious prison.?

I really don't know what your cure can be for the torment you have with those you are obsessed with exposing and lampooning?
Acts 5
38And now I say to you, withdraw from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or this work is from men, it will be overthrown. 39But if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow it, lest ever also you would be found fighting against God.”

40And they were persuaded by him. And having called in the apostles, having beaten them, they commanded them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and they released them.

The religious persecuted then and tried to stop the work of heaven
They could not beat it out of them then,and you can not stop it either.

Thank you Jesus!!!

 

[Absolutely]

Are you claiming that the origin of the pretribulation rapture was not related to


So, you were saved without a preaching of the Gospel, which includes Jesus dying for sinners on the Cross?

...as was paul

 

[Absolutely]

I recommend the book "Five Points of Calvinism" by David Steele to understand the Reformed position better.

...enough said

i now see the spirit i am dealing with.

i was not far off suggesting you form a religious police force.

woah

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

...as was paul

The gospel accompanies salvation. Romans 10 points to this.

Paul knew the core teachings of Scripture, and once he knew that YHVH was Jesus, which he certainly did on the road to Damascus, the pieces fell into place.

Jesus said it was him that he was persecuting, and certainly he knew the message of Christians since he had hauled a number of them off.

So, Paul was not saved without an understanding of Christianity's teachings. He heard it from Stephen before he stoned him.

 

[Brandnewday]

Good advise. It is my God job to fight against false doctrinal beliefs and besides posting here is fun and I just love a good argument (in good taste of course) about biblical doctrine.
Here is the way I see it. If you believe that you are not going to be here on earth to suffer a period of Great Tribulatio and you suddenly find yourself in the middle of tribulation and the resurrection hasn't taken place yet. How many folks do you think will believe they were lied to or get angry at God because the believed that they were going to escape the tribulation? There will be a negative impact on millions of believers. Hence the great falling away.
On the other hand if folks think they are going to go through a period of great tribulation and prepare themselves to endure to the end but are "raptured" out of here before a period of great tribulation there is nothing to loose by being prepared mentally and spiritually for a great tribulation. No negative impact at all.
The for the compliment on Cookie. I got her when my mother past away. Unfortunately she was mean as a snake until the day she died.

Thanks for getting back to me. I'm sorry to read about your mom and the cute little dog. My sympathies.

 

[massorite]

Thanks for getting back to me. I'm sorry to read about your mom and the cute little dog. My sympathies.

LOL I am so sorry. I still have the dog and she just loves her daddy. It was my mom who was mean as a snake until she died

 

[Brandnewday]

LOL I am so sorry. I still have the dog and she just loves her daddy. It was my mom who was mean as a snake until she died

I misunderstood. I'm glad the little dog is still a companion for you then. I'm really sorry to hear about your mom. My grandfather was likely her twin. Snake wise that is.

 

[massorite]

I misunderstood. I'm glad the little dog is still a companion for you then. I'm really sorry to hear about your mom. My grandfather was likely her twin. Snake wise that is.

Thank you.

 

[Brandnewday]

Thank you.

You're very welcome.