Valley of Decision.... It's time to make a choice!

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Dave-L said:
But you save yourself by choosing to do so.
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No. I choose Life. I choose to receive the works that Christ did to save me.

My works for salvation are just filthy rags that cannot EVER save me.

After I receive the GIFT of SALVATION from Christ, the good works that I do are for the Kingdom of God, NOT for salvation - not even to "maintain" my salvation. Salvation is COMPLETE in Christ alone.
 
Lafftur said:
No. I choose Life. I choose to receive the works that Christ did to save me.

My works for salvation are just filthy rags that cannot EVER save me.

After I receive the GIFT of SALVATION from Christ, the good works that I do are for the Kingdom of God, NOT for salvation.
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But you saved yourself by choosing to receive it. The way it works is we receive Christ in the same way we receive a pat on the back. The will has nothing to do with it. You believe because God first gave you the Holy Spirit and the experience causes you to believe.

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:” John 1:12 (KJV 1900)

“Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” John 1:13 (KJV 1900)
 
Dave-L said:
But you saved yourself by choosing to receive it. The way it works is we receive Christ in the same way we receive a pat on the back. The will has nothing to do with it. You believe because God first gave you the Holy Spirit and the experience causes you to believe.

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:” John 1:12 (KJV 1900)

“Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” John 1:13 (KJV 1900)
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No, I did NOT save myself. Yeshua/Jesus saved me.

No. The Gift of the Holy Spirit was NOT given to me until AFTER I believed and received the Body and Blood of Yeshua/Jesus Christ the ONLY SAVIOR for man.

The Holy Spirit opens our understanding to hear the truth of the gospel of Salvation in Christ, BUT the Holy Spirit is NOT inside of us at this time.
 
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Dave-L said:
The passage says people cannot discern spiritual truth. “Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3 (KJV 1900)
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Two different verses meaning two different things.
 
Dave-L said:
But you saved yourself by choosing to receive it. The way it works is we receive Christ in the same way we receive a pat on the back. The will has nothing to do with it. You believe because God first gave you the Holy Spirit and the experience causes you to believe.

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:” John 1:12 (KJV 1900)

“Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” John 1:13 (KJV 1900)
Click to expand...


nah nah nah nah but you saved yourself awrk awrk awrk

polly wants a cracker

awrk awrk awrk

avc.gif
 
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Lafftur said:
No, I did NOT save myself. Yeshua/Jesus saved me.

No. The Gift of the Holy Spirit was NOT given to me until AFTER I believed and received the Body and Blood of Yeshua/Jesus Christ the ONLY SAVIOR for man.

The Holy Spirit opens our understanding to hear the truth of the gospel of Salvation in Christ, BUT the Holy Spirit is NOT inside of us at this time.
Click to expand...
Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit you must have before you can believe. “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” Galatians 5:22 (KJV 1900)
 
Dave-L said:
Has it occurred to you how much people hate God if Calvin was right about sin and grace?
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He was only partly right ... has it occurred to you how much if he was wrong (which he was mostly) how he has maligned the nature of God.

There is no way around the fact that if God selects those He wants leaving others no choice...then he is a morally ambiguous God.

And Calvin as clever as he was did not follow his own dogma to is moral logical conclusion......
which is not good.

As well you you are listening to a man whose lens was completely shaped by St Augustine and Augustine did not get much right either having been influenced by the Roman church which definitely did not get much right.
 
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EleventhHour said:
He was only partly right ... has it occurred to you how much if he was wrong (which he was mostly) how he has maligned the nature of God.

There is no way around the fact that if God selects those He wants leaving others no choice...then he is a morally ambiguous God.

And Calvin as clever as he was did not follow his own dogma to is moral logical conclusion......
which is not good.

As well you you are listening to a man whose lens was completely shaped by St Augustine and Augustine did not get much right either having been influenced by the Roman church which definitely did not get much right.
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It can go both ways. But Luther, Calvin, and all the Reformers were Augustinians. Augustine proved free will is a heresy. So people are either aligned with Catholicism that depends on free will. Or Augustinianism which proves salvation is by grace alone, apart from works of the flesh. Take your pick.
 
Dave-L said:
It can go both ways. But Luther, Calvin, and all the Reformers were Augustinians. Augustine proved free will is a heresy. So people are either aligned with Catholicism that depends on free will. Or Augustinianism which proves salvation is by grace alone, apart from works of the flesh. Take your pick.
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Since "free will"
is not a biblical concept it does not matter what Augustine proved.

Error refuting error ... between "free will" and God selecting some from the path of hell.
It is neither.
 
EleventhHour said:
Since "free will"
is not a biblical concept it does not matter what Augustine proved.

Error refuting error ... between "free will" and God selecting some from the path of hell.
It is neither.
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But free will is not a New Covenant biblical concept. It becomes a false doctrine when people teach it as biblical truth.
 
Dave-L said:
But free will is not a New Covenant biblical concept. It becomes a false doctrine when people teach it as biblical truth.
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Well I do not.
We have a will ...we make choices everyday that is plainly obvious .... most of our choices revolve around our beliefs which meand belief comes first.

I do not believe we make a choice to be saved as I have told you many times.... we are persuaded, convicted, convinced...it is a passive response to truth that has been heard.
 
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