The "Man of Sin" Prophecies

[Yahshua]

He wouldn´t have been, He was speaking to those who were of the BODY...they would have understood...

Further, you can´t just take this apart from his whole letter...he was talking to those who KNEW CHRIST, knew there would be a RESURRECTION...but also were being troubled by those who were saying THE DAY of THE LORD, and with it, THE RESURRECTION had already come...

Paul´s words are very clear telling them that this can´t happen until the man of sin is revealed...and the only way he can be revealed is if HE, who holds all things back by HIS POWER (WHO IS GOD), is taken out of the way...

Did you think satan holds things back? Or that satan has any power to do anything unless GOD, removes HIS HEDGE?

It's a good question...but why not say "the Almighty removes His hedge or His Spirit"? Why "he will let until he who let's is taken out of the way"? At no point is the Holy Spirit mentioned by name so how can we attribute any pronouns to him. Only the Messiah, satan, and the man of sin are mentioned as subjects.

So as I read the passage it seems Paul is saying it's the apostasy event - The falling away - that must come first before the day of the Lord...and it's that (& satan work) which is holding back the "man of sin" from being revealed.

Now when most read "revealed" we interpret it as "comes on the scene" or "appearing". But I'd like you to consider for a moment that "revealed" means - at its core - "exposed/uncovered". Notice how it reads:


2 Thess 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day [of the Lord] shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


Then Paul continues with a description of what this man would do, and then Paul says...


2 Thess 2:6-7
6 And NOW ye know WHAT withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth ALREADY work:


Paul just now shared what withholds the man of sin. So if we take out the parenthetical side info, here's the message Paul gives:


Q: What is keeping the man of sin from being exposed until it's time?
A: The apostasy event that has to come first; the falling away. That is the "what" that's keeping the man of sin from being exposed...because "secret/hidden sinfulness" is ALREADY hard at work.

Paul continues...


2 Thess 2:7-8
7 ...only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed..."


So from the context, the next question is:

Q: he "lets" what?
A: he "lets" this "mystery of iniquity" (i.e. this secret/covert/hidden sinfulness) that's already in full swing in Paul's time; he lets it continue until he is taken out of the way.


So who's the "he" who let's this happen?

Remember that satan's trade is deception. As long as he's around people will be deceived to believe any lie is the truth; that any wickedness is righteousness; that this man of sin is a genuine man of God. He must be taken out of the way so this wicked man of sin can finally be revealed/uncovered/exposed for who he is...until then, the "man of sin" will continue to deceive people.

Paul then says the wicked man will be revealed and destroyed with the Master's arrival.


2 Thess 2:8
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


Paul continues...


2 Thess 2:9
9 ...whose coming is after the working of satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness


Now I know the prevailing meaning of these passages has been drilled into us, but if we simply follow the context, ask yourself:

Q: Whose coming is after satan's deceptive work?
A: His - The Messiah's - bright coming is after (or behind) satan's deceptive work

Like you pointed out, those of Thessalonica were afraid they missed the resurrection and regathering. So Paul was giving them the order to events:

- First, the secret iniquity was already fomenting.

- Next is the great falling away must happen.

- And then, when satan is taken out of the way, the man of sin - who Paul already mentioned when he was with them personally - will be exposed with the brightness of the Messiah's coming


It's through satan's authority that this man of sin will deceive many into believing he's a man of God. But this man can't deceive many if he's already revealed to be the "man of sin". It's a bit pointless to the whole game of deception to reveal the deceiver beforehand, you know?

If we know that the "man of sin" is also called "the beast", then I ask myself who gave/gives his own authority to this beast (essentially unleashing him on the world) after he fails to destroy the manchild and the woman himself, per Revelation 13? Of course, it's satan.

We have the passage that records the Messiah saying, "Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me." (John 14:30). Also the passage Matthew 4:8-9 says, "Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 'All this I will give You,' he said, 'if You will fall down and worship me.'” And satan wasn't corrected by the Messiah when he did this.

So I fully agree that satan has no power unless it's given to him, but it would seem he was already given this power, at least as far back as the beginning of the Messiah's ministry. The Messiah acknowledges satan's authority on earth, as well as Paul in this letter.

----

Now from the historicist pov, this apostasy has since occurred and is still in full swing with the man of sin doing much damage - with satan's authority - concealed as a man of God...while I think preterists believe he's already come and gone...and then futurists believe he's still to come...

But regardless of position, I believe this is what the passage is explaining; that it's satan and his deception that must be taken out of the way in order to EXPOSE the "man of sin".

Forgive the length.

 

[Yahshua]

Greetings!

I'm sorry to hear that you moved away from the truth from futurist to historicist regarding this issue. [...].

Oh gee thanks, Ahwatukee lol. You make it seem like a salvation issue. I have to step out for a bit but I'll return to read all that you've written and respond more completely.

Thanks for the contribution anyhow.

 

[garee]

Ok thanks Garee. So from your view the "man of sin" is now, as in "anyone who would deny the Messiah and his authority". Interesting. This is similar to the historicist view in terms of it being a "body of people" currently existing...except, we've named a particular office.

I'm reminded of the movie The Matrix with the villain being a single man as well as a body of people. Forgive the secular reference. Just using it for illustration. Indeed scripture says there are many antichrists.

Thanks for the perspective.

Thanks for the reply

In that way the man of sin has many faces using the things seen the temporal corrupted in order to make the unseen eternal without effect. The god of this world used the form of a serpent one of the more beautiful creatures before the fall. "Ye shall surely not die" . the glory of faith departed

Today its anyone that is of the mark who sell the lies and not the truth and understanding that alone comes from the word of prophecy .The Bible.

Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.

 

[garee]

Whose SPIRIT is powerfully at work in us?

The Spirit of Christ the teaching Holy Spirit of God .

 

[Yahshua]

================================================================================

Head of Gold = Babylon

Chest and Arms of Silver = Medo/Persia

Belly and Thighs of Bronze = Greece

Legs of Iron = Rome

Feet of Part Iron and Clay = The Future Ten Toed Kingdom

The Stone cut out of the Mountain = The Lord Jesus

The Great Mountain that fills the whole earth = The Lord Jesus

========================================================

The statues represents all of the all human government, with the ten toed kingdom being that last kingdom who will rule with the beast as described in Revelation 17:12-13.

"The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but will receive authority in one hour as kings, along with the beast. These kings have one purpose: to yield their power and authority to the beast."

Ok thanks for your contribution, Ahwatukee.

We've differed on eschatology in a few threads, so without going too far down that rabbit hole again I just want to limit my reply to the quoted portion above as it relates to the "man of sin".

I asked another member the following question in another thread, but maybe you could consider this and then share your pov.

----

We agree that the statue represents the entire timeline of human government from Babylon to the Messiah's heavenly government on earth.

And as far as we can tell, the vision of the statue is a solid figure from head to toe:

Babylon > Medo/Persia > Greece > Rome > Ten Toed mixed Kingdom > Messiah's Kingdom on Earth

And as one metal flows into the next, each kingdom that follows conquers the previous one.

So my question is if both halves of Rome - figured by the two legs of iron - were conquered in 476 AD (west) and 1453 AD (east) respectively, from your perspective which portion of the statue do you believe we are in right now if the ten toed mixed kingdoms - and the man of sin - are still future?

 

[Jakotis]

As Far as im Concerned,Rome Empire Comprised of all European Countries who have Colonised bigger Percentage of Counties of the world and Have been there untill when Covid-19 started.These Economies/America will now Collapse and China is Taking Over.If you read book of Daniel,Beast were Governments.Every Person on Earth have Felt Pain Caused by the Beast.

 

[garee]

Because God is not a God of confusion (not a man) We are given the understanding he has no literal face .He is eternal Spirit . To seek his face is to seek after his understanding. faith to faith.

In the same way the father of lies is not a man and has no outward form . The man or men of sin antichrists (plural) are whatsoever man is influenced by and performs the work of the unseen spirit of error .

Peter was used to show us that work or faith in action. The father as Lord working in Jesus rebuked the antichrist (singular) and forgave Peter of blasphemy against the Son of man (flesh and blood)

We simply do not wrestle against flesh and blood the temporal useless. But rather follow Jesus who had the power of the treasure working in his earthen body of death . This way we learn from the father just as Jesus.

 

[Yahshua]

As Far as im Concerned,Rome Empire Comprised of all European Countries who have Colonised bigger Percentage of Counties of the world and Have been there untill when Covid-19 started.These Economies/America will now Collapse and China is Taking Over.If you read book of Daniel,Beast were Governments.Every Person on Earth have Felt Pain Caused by the Beast.

Thanks for contributing, Jakotis. I also see today's European nations as a continuation of Rome...but as the 10-toed mixed nations.

I don't see any single nation winning right now but believe they're all suffering, which suggests to me this is the work of the "heavenly stone" crushing these nations and turning the kingdoms of this world into the kingdoms of the Almighty and His Anointed. I believe we're that far ahead in prophecy, personally. But others differ.

The Almighty judges nations using the sword (i.e. war), famine (i.e. economic hardship), and pestilences (i.e. diseases). And we've got 2 out of 3 happening right now with the spread of Covid-19...so war may very well be around the corner if nations are currently blaming China for this disease (which is allied with Russia, which is allied with Iran).

We'll need to wait and see how this plays out in the coming months and years.

 

[Ahwatukee]

It's a good question...but why not say "the Almighty removes His hedge or His Spirit"? Why "he will let until he who let's is taken out of the way"? At no point is the Holy Spirit mentioned by name so how can we attribute any pronouns to him. Only the Messiah, satan, and the man of sin are mentioned as subjects.


Q: What is keeping the man of sin from being exposed until it's time?
A: The apostasy event that has to come first; the falling away. That is the "what" that's keeping the man of sin from being exposed...because "secret/hidden sinfulness" is ALREADY hard at work.

Paul continues...


2 Thess 2:7-8
7 ...only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed..."


So from the context, the next question is:

Q: he "lets" what?
A: he "lets" this "mystery of iniquity" (i.e. this secret/covert/hidden sinfulness) that's already in full swing in Paul's time; he lets it continue until he is taken out of the way.


So who's the "he" who let's this happen?

Remember that satan's trade is deception. As long as he's around people will be deceived to believe any lie is the truth; that any wickedness is righteousness; that this man of sin is a genuine man of God. He must be taken out of the way so this wicked man of sin can finally be revealed/uncovered/exposed for who he is...until then, the "man of sin" will continue to deceive people.

Paul then says the wicked man will be revealed and destroyed with the Master's arrival.

The "He" who is restraining the man of sin and the full force of sin from being revealed, could be none other than the Holy Spirit.

"Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way."

The restrainer is keeping the man of lawlessness from being revealed until his proper time. There is only One who is capable of performing this, which is the Holy Spirit. Satan is not the one who is keeping the antichrist from being revealed. That would be along the lines of Satan casting out Satan.

The man of sin will indeed be a man, for as you pointed out, he is referred to as "the man of lawlessness." In addition, the mark is said to be the number of a man. It is that angel of the Abyss, the beast who will be the power behind this man of lawlessness. But it is the Holy Spirit who is restraining him until the proper time.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The "He" who is restraining the man of sin and the full force of sin from being revealed, could be none other than the Holy Spirit.

Please see the thread about 2 Thessalonians 2, where I have provided details corresponding to what you have said. It is interesting to see that many Christians find this prophecy hard to believe.

 

[iamsoandso]

Thanks for contributing, Jakotis. I also see today's European nations as a continuation of Rome...but as the 10-toed mixed nations.

I don't see any single nation winning right now but believe they're all suffering, which suggests to me this is the work of the "heavenly stone" crushing these nations and turning the kingdoms of this world into the kingdoms of the Almighty and His Anointed. I believe we're that far ahead in prophecy, personally. But others differ.

The Almighty judges nations using the sword (i.e. war), famine (i.e. economic hardship), and pestilences (i.e. diseases). And we've got 2 out of 3 happening right now with the spread of Covid-19...so war may very well be around the corner if nations are currently blaming China for this disease (which is allied with Russia, which is allied with Iran).

We'll need to wait and see how this plays out in the coming months and years.

Stop and think for a second,,,

If that man of sin has not yet come then his image has not yet been worshiped and no one has received his mark. So Gods wrath in Revelation is poured out on those who worship it's image and receive it's mark and then so how can we be saying covid-19 or the stone is being cast at the earth(Gods wrath) if the MoS,his mark and image worship are not yet present?

 

[Yahshua]

Stop and think for a second,,,

If that man of sin has not yet come then his image has not yet been worshiped and no one has received his mark. So Gods wrath in Revelation is poured out on those who worship it's image and receive it's mark and then so how can we be saying covid-19 or the stone is being cast at the earth(Gods wrath) if the MoS,his mark and image worship are not yet present?

That makes sense if I believe the man of sin has not yet come. But my position is provided in the OP.

Based on the I position provided in my OP, I believe our generation was born at the tail end of prophecy; born inside Mystery Babylon after everything has already been set up, which is why I believe Revelation says "come out of her MY PEOPLE" (Rev 18:4) so that we don't partake in her plagues. The Almighty's people are in Mystery Babylon else they wouldn't have been told to come out right? If the Almighty's people were already gone, who is the angel talking to?


End-time events based on the Messiah's account in Luke 21:

- Persecution of the disciples (martyrdom) (v12)
- deception, wars, Pestilences, famine, earthquakes begin (v8-11)
- Jews will be hated by everyone and also betray each another (v16-17)
- Jerusalem will be surrounded for its destruction (70AD); flee the land to safety (v20-21)
- days of vengeance begin: great tribulation/wrath against the Jews (v22-23)
- Jerusalem trampled by nations until "time of gentiles" fulfilled (v24)
- astronomical signs; The nations/gentiles go through their own tribulation with confusion and weird weather (v25)
- people become terrified because of what's happening on the earth; power structure shaken (v26)
- the Son of Man appears on a cloud

I believe we're where I marked the "", and believe the coronavirus is part of the tribulation prophesied to fall on the nations...which just so happened to have followed a series of blood moons and meteors from 2014-2017, then a solar eclipse in 2017, followed by rivers turning red across the world, hailstorms, fires, and unexpectedly intense weather...and currently an uncontrollable plague of locust consuming crops from Asian and Middle-East throughout Africa right now (world news which is, unfortunately, being overshadowed by the current pandemic); 2017-2020.

 

[Yahshua]

The "He" who is restraining the man of sin and the full force of sin from being revealed, could be none other than the Holy Spirit.

"Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way."

The restrainer is keeping the man of lawlessness from being revealed until his proper time. There is only One who is capable of performing this, which is the Holy Spirit. Satan is not the one who is keeping the antichrist from being revealed. That would be along the lines of Satan casting out Satan.

The man of sin will indeed be a man, for as you pointed out, he is referred to as "the man of lawlessness." In addition, the mark is said to be the number of a man. It is that angel of the Abyss, the beast who will be the power behind this man of lawlessness. But it is the Holy Spirit who is restraining him until the proper time.

...but the Holy Spirit is never mentioned as a subject in this portion of the letter. How can we simply add the Holy Spirit to the letter to replace a pronoun? Wouldn't that be engaging in eisegesis instead of exegesis? This would be the ONLY place (I can think of) in all of Paul's letters where he did not respectfully give the Holy Spirit a proper title. Why would he do that? That's out of character for his writing style and reverence for the Almighty, isn't it?

The passage never mentions a Being called "The Restrainer", but simply says "he who now lets..." or "he who now restrains...". We're creating a proper noun when all we're given is a pronoun and an action word.

 

[garee]

...but the Holy Spirit is never mentioned as a subject in this portion of the letter. How can we simply add the Holy Spirit to the letter to replace a pronoun? Wouldn't that be engaging in eisegesis instead of exegesis? This would be the ONLY place (I can think of) in all of Paul's letters where he did not respectfully give the Holy Spirit a proper title. Why would he do that? That's out of character for his writing style and reverence for the Almighty, isn't it?

The passage never mentions a Being called "The Restrainer", but simply says "he who now lets..." or "he who now restrains...". We're creating a proper noun when all we're given is a pronoun and an action word.

Restraining is what he is doing. How could it be anyone but the Holy Spirit. He is restrainer the one who holds the key to the gates of hell .He lets..." or restrains...".Binding and loosening.

Perfect example of the man of sin in Mathew 16 .The man of sin. Satan influencing Peter to commit blasphemy (deny the gospel) .Peter is used used as one of the many antichrists (legion ) that were already there to do his will. Satan the antichrist(singular) ' is the spirit of error that works in the heart of mankind .He produced the man of sin in the garden the first Adam man .

Our father in heaven rebuked or restrained the devil and forgave Peter of blasphemy against against the Son of man.

I would be careful in trying to put a literal face on a lying spirit or face on the Spirit of Christ .He is not a man.

I am sure Satan the lord of the flies is glad men are still waiting for him to appear when he has already been revealed given a face by the word of God . We should walk by faith .

 

[garee]

Stop and think for a second,,,

If that man of sin has not yet come then his image has not yet been worshiped and no one has received his mark. So Gods wrath in Revelation is poured out on those who worship it's image and receive it's mark and then so how can we be saying covid-19 or the stone is being cast at the earth(Gods wrath) if the MoS,his mark and image worship are not yet present?

It would seem you are seeing things that are not there.

The mark is the mark of Cain (restless wander no Sabbath rest) the man of sin . No faith in God that alone come from hearing God and believing . Cain resisted the words of our father and as part of the pagan foundation (out of sight out of mind).He left a dead sacrifice. Plowed Abel his brother the first martyr under the clay of the field of blood . .the 30 pieces of silver funeral arrangement. Same field of blood Judas the man of sin ended up in.

Esau a man of sin had the same mark. . no value in the things not seen. "fools". No rest in their sufferings. No future hope .

 

[iamsoandso]

That makes sense if I believe the man of sin has not yet come. But my position is provided in the OP.

Based on the I position provided in my OP, I believe our generation was born at the tail end of prophecy; born inside Mystery Babylon after everything has already been set up, which is why I believe Revelation says "come out of her MY PEOPLE" (Rev 18:4) so that we don't partake in her plagues. The Almighty's people are in Mystery Babylon else they wouldn't have been told to come out right? If the Almighty's people were already gone, who is the angel talking to?
Alerts

End-time events based on the Messiah's account in Luke 21:

- Persecution of the disciples (martyrdom) (v12)
- deception, wars, Pestilences, famine, earthquakes begin (v8-11)
- Jews will be hated by everyone and also betray each another (v16-17)
- Jerusalem will be surrounded for its destruction (70AD); flee the land to safety (v20-21)
- days of vengeance begin: great tribulation/wrath against the Jews (v22-23)
- Jerusalem trampled by nations until "time of gentiles" fulfilled (v24)
- astronomical signs; The nations/gentiles go through their own tribulation with confusion and weird weather (v25)
- people become terrified because of what's happening on the earth; power structure shaken (v26)
- the Son of Man appears on a cloud

I believe we're where I marked the "", and believe the coronavirus is part of the tribulation prophesied to fall on the nations...which just so happened to have followed a series of blood moons and meteors from 2014-2017, then a solar eclipse in 2017, followed by rivers turning red across the world, hailstorms, fires, and unexpectedly intense weather...and currently an uncontrollable plague of locust consuming crops from Asian and Middle-East throughout Africa right now (world news which is, unfortunately, being overshadowed by the current pandemic); 2017-2020.

That is why I was pointing this out(your OP and the post I quoted) in that it would mean that you see some things having the stone cast at them before they existed(ad70). Then you see it divided into two legs(east and west/empires),and the stone cast at it when it first began. then that same stone being cast at at the ten kingdoms before they became kingdoms.(wrath before the entire beast exist)

In the post I quoted you said Covid-19 is a part of that same wrath of God being poured out but it is being caught by the young and old whether they are Catholic or none Catholic but also those who are infant children who do not buy or sell and do not worship any God as yet and so are innocent. So bare in mind that in the Revelation it states several times that it is poured out on those who received the mark,worship the image ect. not the innocent (only those who commit the sin) .

 

[Ahwatukee]

That makes sense if I believe the man of sin has not yet come. But my position is provided in the OP.

Based on the I position provided in my OP, I believe our generation was born at the tail end of prophecy; born inside Mystery Babylon after everything has already been set up, which is why I believe Revelation says "come out of her MY PEOPLE" (Rev 18:4) so that we don't partake in her plagues. The Almighty's people are in Mystery Babylon else they wouldn't have been told to come out right? If the Almighty's people were already gone, who is the angel talking to?

First of all, you have to understand who Mystery, Babylon the great is, which is not the church. You won't fine the word church used anymore after the end of chapter 3 and that because Chapter 4:1 is a prophetic allusion to the church being caught up. After this the word ekklesia is never used again until chapter 22:16.

God gives us clues in His word as to who Mystery, Babylon the great is:

* The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.

Rome was literally built on and is famous for her seven hills

* The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.

At the time that John was receiving this information Rome was that city that ruled over the kings of the earth

* The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls.

Purple and scarlet are the exact colors word by the bishops and cardinals of Roman Catholicism



The woman who rides the beast aka Mystery, Babylon the great, is the Roman Catholic church.

The reference to "come out of her my people" is God calling those who belong to Him to come out from this false religious system before He has the beast and the ten kings destroy her with fire so that no once can ever inhabit that city again.

Once the antichrist/beast is revealed, he will empower the office of the pope and the Roman Catholic church with the power that she has desired. The office of the pope believes that every human should come under his authority and belong to the RCC. Anyone who doesn't will be a heretic to them.

Babylon the great is hiding in plain sight and is advertising who she really is with that Idolatrous Egyptian Obelisk sitting out in the middle of St. Peter's square.

They have and are deceiving over 1.2 billion people by looking Christian. All one has to do a cursory look at what she is teaching to see that she is a counterfeit

 

[miknik5]

It's a good question...but why not say "the Almighty removes His hedge or His Spirit"? Why "he will let until he who let's is taken out of the way"? At no point is the Holy Spirit mentioned by name so how can we attribute any pronouns to him. Only the Messiah, satan, and the man of sin are mentioned as subjects.

So as I read the passage it seems Paul is saying it's the apostasy event - The falling away - that must come first before the day of the Lord...and it's that (& satan work) which is holding back the "man of sin" from being revealed.

Now when most read "revealed" we interpret it as "comes on the scene" or "appearing". But I'd like you to consider for a moment that "revealed" means - at its core - "exposed/uncovered". Notice how it reads:


2 Thess 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day [of the Lord] shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


Then Paul continues with a description of what this man would do, and then Paul says...


2 Thess 2:6-7
6 And NOW ye know WHAT withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth ALREADY work:


Paul just now shared what withholds the man of sin. So if we take out the parenthetical side info, here's the message Paul gives:


Q: What is keeping the man of sin from being exposed until it's time?
A: The apostasy event that has to come first; the falling away. That is the "what" that's keeping the man of sin from being exposed...because "secret/hidden sinfulness" is ALREADY hard at work.

Paul continues...


2 Thess 2:7-8
7 ...only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed..."


So from the context, the next question is:

Q: he "lets" what?
A: he "lets" this "mystery of iniquity" (i.e. this secret/covert/hidden sinfulness) that's already in full swing in Paul's time; he lets it continue until he is taken out of the way.


So who's the "he" who let's this happen?

Remember that satan's trade is deception. As long as he's around people will be deceived to believe any lie is the truth; that any wickedness is righteousness; that this man of sin is a genuine man of God. He must be taken out of the way so this wicked man of sin can finally be revealed/uncovered/exposed for who he is...until then, the "man of sin" will continue to deceive people.

Paul then says the wicked man will be revealed and destroyed with the Master's arrival.


2 Thess 2:8
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


Paul continues...


2 Thess 2:9
9 ...whose coming is after the working of satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness


Now I know the prevailing meaning of these passages has been drilled into us, but if we simply follow the context, ask yourself:

Q: Whose coming is after satan's deceptive work?
A: His - The Messiah's - bright coming is after (or behind) satan's deceptive work

Like you pointed out, those of Thessalonica were afraid they missed the resurrection and regathering. So Paul was giving them the order to events:

- First, the secret iniquity was already fomenting.

- Next is the great falling away must happen.

- And then, when satan is taken out of the way, the man of sin - who Paul already mentioned when he was with them personally - will be exposed with the brightness of the Messiah's coming


It's through satan's authority that this man of sin will deceive many into believing he's a man of God. But this man can't deceive many if he's already revealed to be the "man of sin". It's a bit pointless to the whole game of deception to reveal the deceiver beforehand, you know?

If we know that the "man of sin" is also called "the beast", then I ask myself who gave/gives his own authority to this beast (essentially unleashing him on the world) after he fails to destroy the manchild and the woman himself, per Revelation 13? Of course, it's satan.

We have the passage that records the Messiah saying, "Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me." (John 14:30). Also the passage Matthew 4:8-9 says, "Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 'All this I will give You,' he said, 'if You will fall down and worship me.'” And satan wasn't corrected by the Messiah when he did this.

So I fully agree that satan has no power unless it's given to him, but it would seem he was already given this power, at least as far back as the beginning of the Messiah's ministry. The Messiah acknowledges satan's authority on earth, as well as Paul in this letter.

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Now from the historicist pov, this apostasy has since occurred and is still in full swing with the man of sin doing much damage - with satan's authority - concealed as a man of God...while I think preterists believe he's already come and gone...and then futurists believe he's still to come...

But regardless of position, I believe this is what the passage is explaining; that it's satan and his deception that must be taken out of the way in order to EXPOSE the "man of sin".

Forgive the length.

Please explain to me where the 1000 year reign comes in...because if HE comes and destroys satan by the brightness of HIS coming, then there is no 1000 year reign...when satan will be let loose once more?

 

[Ahwatukee]

...but the Holy Spirit is never mentioned as a subject in this portion of the letter. How can we simply add the Holy Spirit to the letter to replace a pronoun? Wouldn't that be engaging in eisegesis instead of exegesis? This would be the ONLY place (I can think of) in all of Paul's letters where he did not respectfully give the Holy Spirit a proper title. Why would he do that? That's out of character for his writing style and reverence for the Almighty, isn't it?

Because there is only one who is powerful enough to hold back (restrain) the full force of sin and the man of sin from being revealed until his proper time and that is the Spirit of God.

The passage never mentions a Being called "The Restrainer", but simply says "he who now lets..." or "he who now restrains...". We're creating a proper noun when all we're given is a pronoun and an action word.

Well, if He is called "he who now restrains" it is not great leep to refer to Him as the Restrainer. Her are just several major translations:

New International Version
For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.

New Living Translation
For this lawlessness is already at work secretly, and it will remain secret until the one who is holding it back steps out of the way.

English Standard Version
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.

Berean Study Bible
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way.

Berean Literal Bible
For the mystery of lawlessness is working already; there is only the one at present restraining it, until he might be gone out of the midst.

New American Standard Bible
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.

New King James Version
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.

Paul does not mention the Holy Spirit here as the One who is now restraining, because the Thessalonians knew who he was taking about when he said "don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things." We have to use our spiritual logic here and fill in the blanks.

 

[miknik5]

It's a good question...but why not say "the Almighty removes His hedge or His Spirit"? Why "he will let until he who let's is taken out of the way"? At no point is the Holy Spirit mentioned by name so how can we attribute any pronouns to him. Only the Messiah, satan, and the man of sin are mentioned as subjects.

So as I read the passage it seems Paul is saying it's the apostasy event - The falling away - that must come first before the day of the Lord...and it's that (& satan work) which is holding back the "man of sin" from being revealed.

Now when most read "revealed" we interpret it as "comes on the scene" or "appearing". But I'd like you to consider for a moment that "revealed" means - at its core - "exposed/uncovered". Notice how it reads:


2 Thess 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day [of the Lord] shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


Then Paul continues with a description of what this man would do, and then Paul says...


2 Thess 2:6-7
6 And NOW ye know WHAT withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth ALREADY work:


Paul just now shared what withholds the man of sin. So if we take out the parenthetical side info, here's the message Paul gives:


Q: What is keeping the man of sin from being exposed until it's time?
A: The apostasy event that has to come first; the falling away. That is the "what" that's keeping the man of sin from being exposed...because "secret/hidden sinfulness" is ALREADY hard at work.

Paul continues...


2 Thess 2:7-8
7 ...only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed..."


So from the context, the next question is:

Q: he "lets" what?
A: he "lets" this "mystery of iniquity" (i.e. this secret/covert/hidden sinfulness) that's already in full swing in Paul's time; he lets it continue until he is taken out of the way.


So who's the "he" who let's this happen?

Remember that satan's trade is deception. As long as he's around people will be deceived to believe any lie is the truth; that any wickedness is righteousness; that this man of sin is a genuine man of God. He must be taken out of the way so this wicked man of sin can finally be revealed/uncovered/exposed for who he is...until then, the "man of sin" will continue to deceive people.

Paul then says the wicked man will be revealed and destroyed with the Master's arrival.


2 Thess 2:8
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


Paul continues...


2 Thess 2:9
9 ...whose coming is after the working of satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness


Now I know the prevailing meaning of these passages has been drilled into us, but if we simply follow the context, ask yourself:

Q: Whose coming is after satan's deceptive work?
A: His - The Messiah's - bright coming is after (or behind) satan's deceptive work

Like you pointed out, those of Thessalonica were afraid they missed the resurrection and regathering. So Paul was giving them the order to events:

- First, the secret iniquity was already fomenting.

- Next is the great falling away must happen.

- And then, when satan is taken out of the way, the man of sin - who Paul already mentioned when he was with them personally - will be exposed with the brightness of the Messiah's coming


It's through satan's authority that this man of sin will deceive many into believing he's a man of God. But this man can't deceive many if he's already revealed to be the "man of sin". It's a bit pointless to the whole game of deception to reveal the deceiver beforehand, you know?

If we know that the "man of sin" is also called "the beast", then I ask myself who gave/gives his own authority to this beast (essentially unleashing him on the world) after he fails to destroy the manchild and the woman himself, per Revelation 13? Of course, it's satan.

We have the passage that records the Messiah saying, "Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me." (John 14:30). Also the passage Matthew 4:8-9 says, "Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 'All this I will give You,' he said, 'if You will fall down and worship me.'” And satan wasn't corrected by the Messiah when he did this.

So I fully agree that satan has no power unless it's given to him, but it would seem he was already given this power, at least as far back as the beginning of the Messiah's ministry. The Messiah acknowledges satan's authority on earth, as well as Paul in this letter.

----

Now from the historicist pov, this apostasy has since occurred and is still in full swing with the man of sin doing much damage - with satan's authority - concealed as a man of God...while I think preterists believe he's already come and gone...and then futurists believe he's still to come...

But regardless of position, I believe this is what the passage is explaining; that it's satan and his deception that must be taken out of the way in order to EXPOSE the "man of sin".

Forgive the length.

Please also remember that CHRIST said NOW IS THE PRINCE OF THIS WORLD CAST OUT...NOW IS JUDGMENT UPON THE WORLD...
GOD by sending HIS SON, shut up the mouths of every lying spirit who whispers and mutters anything and everything but THE TRUTH of OUR SALVATION in, by and through CHRIST JESUS...

Satan was defeated at THE CROSS....and he has NO POWER over those who are IN CHRIST JESUS...

He does, however, have power over those who still remain outside THE DOOR and in darkness....who listen to anything and everything but THE TESTIMONY of GOD.