Justification has not come about because of anything believers are capable of achieving on their own

[DesertWanderer]

Wow! What a low view of the word of God. God cannot be contained in just 66 books. But, that is what He has graciously given us to reveal Himself to us. No way can our finite minds grasp all the bible entails. There is no graduating from the bible.

A few years ago, I was involved in a wonderful study in the book of Isaiah sponsored by the Bible Study Fellowship international organization.

I was so excited to be a part of it, I invited an elderly gentleman from our church to attend. I thought he would be a valuable asset to our study group.

Instead, he flat rejected me, stating that he didn't need to be a part of a study group since he could teach every aspect of the bible.

This level of pride and arrogance isn't just reserved for elders, but pastors and preachers, also.

I mentioned this example because it illustrates your point very well, in my opinion.

 

[Jackson123]

I remember one of our brother, member of ccc here made a god point

Salvation by faith, not by work, but create a lot of work.

Start with faith, or entrust ourselves to Jesus, invite Jesus to be the boss and come to our heart.

Than Jesus in our heart produce love. (Abide in me than you will bear fruit)

The fruit of Holy Spirit is love.

And love create a lot of work.

Love to God make you obey Him, obey create a lot of work. For example apostle Paul obey Him, to spread the Gospel, it take a lot of work.

Jesus say love your neighbors like yourself, it may create a lot of work and cost money

For example your neighbor hungry and you have money, to obey mean help your hungry neighbor.

Salvation by faith not by work, in the sense if you accept Jesus than die in the next second before you bear fruit, you are saved. But if you live for 20 years after save, that faith that save you will bear fruit of love and may cost money and take a lot of work

 

[Jimbone]

It was off the cuff. I bit of dry humor.

Okay, my bad then. the last thing in the world I want is an argument over a joke. LOL we have way too much other stuff we can do with our time. Have a great day Peterlag.

 

[Peterlag]

It was off the cuff since someone just told me that same hour that nobody agreed with me.

Not at all. I thought at the time I was speaking to only one person.

 

[Peterlag]

It was off the cuff. I bit of dry humor.

I have lived and worked in the Christian community for many years. So yeah I know what my students believe.

 

[Peterlag]

Scripture is the only reliable scripture, and that scripture can only teach when we accept that God is one, God never disagrees with God. All scripture must be accepted as scripture, not as an old scripture and a new scripture.

If you do not understand the difference between the new and old covenant. Then I have nothing else to say to you.

 

[Peterlag]

And this is another issue as well. You say you don't read the bible anymore you ask why we read the same book over and over and you claim to have graduated from the bible.
This is yet another reason why you are blind to your truth because you think the bible is like any other book but it isn't. It is literally called the word of life meaning it feeds us it gives us life and insight you can read the bible a thousand times and yet still learn something new beecause the bible is not like other books it is holy spirit inspired it is infused with him.
The bible is like an onion or the earths crust it has many layers so just for the record no one ever graduates from the bible it is an ever going learning and life giving book no one could learn all there is in it in a single lifetime.
You seem to think you are in the place of a teacher that you have more insight and understanding than most when it seems you are the one who needs to be taught and are lacking the most.

Reading the bible to you seems like chore or a downgrade from the position you have placed yourself which is honestly sad and I had no idea any believer actually thought like this.
Everything you have posted every verse every theogical view you have inserted has been defeated by others on here who live in his word and his spirit you have yet to be able to override anything that was shown to you and that is because you do not write the word on your heart for if you did then you would know and have understanding.

Even just talking about the bible as you have is blasphemous you need to stop thinking yourself a teacher and learned and take on the heart of a student who knows nothing only in this way can one actually be taught and shown the hidden truths in the word

So it seems you never considered the reason why you have to keep reading something that you think is too advanced to understand completely is because you simply do not understand it. Because the Scriptures are simple to understand. Even a child can understand it. You have to be an adult to make it difficult. And nobody has defeated what I post. There are many who simply disagree. And that does not make me wrong.

 

[Peterlag]

You see the issue is your looking at the scriptures with a set mind you only see what your trying to defend. as far as the verse I posted being literal or not is not the issue it is the context. They seem to oppose each other but have the same message, it is not that we don't sin but we seek righteous because we have his seed so in his eyes we do not sin and are clean and righteous but even when we do sin according to the flesh not the spirit we ask for forgiveness.

If you focus on not sinning that will only be a stumbling block the spirit guides and leads us into all righteousness so sinning not sinning that is irrelevant because that was never the focus of salvation or being made clean and righteous it was to be made this way as a new creation bearing his seed made clean and royal kings and priests and in this new identity we walk forwards to seek and expand his kingdom without the stumbling block of sin.

In him sin is taken completely out of the picture not even worth debating if one sins or not because in his eyes we don't but a heart that understands grace may stumble sometimes but our image to him never once changed.

I don't live in the flesh anymore. This is probably why we cannot understand each other. I walk in the spirit.

 

[Peterlag]

o
Thought so.

My fellow christians, when a believer tells you they are without sin, ask them if all who observe them agree. Jesus asked those around him which sin they could accuse him of or something similar and none could say anything. They were at that point honest.

The point is not whether others judge you. The point is we are often blind to the wrong we do to others, we are talking real wrong God sees, but the victims of our sin are not blind to it.

Jesus said when you go to present your gift to God and SOMEONE else has something against you, go to them and settle the matter between you. He doesn’t think the wrong you do others but refuse to see is negligible.

There is never been a good prophet or any other great man of God who ever lived according to the approval of his fellow men. Here's

o
Thought so.

My fellow christians, when a believer tells you they are without sin, ask them if all who observe them agree. Jesus asked those around him which sin they could accuse him of or something similar and none could say anything. They were at that point honest.

The point is not whether others judge you. The point is we are often blind to the wrong we do to others, we are talking real wrong God sees, but the victims of our sin are not blind to it.

Jesus said when you go to present your gift to God and SOMEONE else has something against you, go to them and settle the matter between you. He doesn’t think the wrong you do others but refuse to see is negligible.

Prophets are those who have God’s spirit, and therefore they are able to speak for God, because He makes Himself known to them. The world never looks upon prophets as being successful or popular among the public, and therefore they are never invited to compete with others to endeavor to become the most outstanding citizens of the community. They are usually reproached and hardly ever swim with the stream, the current of the times, and that is why their path is seldom smooth or easy.

The measure of a prophet’s success is the measure of faithfulness before God as God’s spokesperson, and never measured by the degree their testimony, witnessing, or speaking of God’s Word is received by others. Because they reverence and respect God’s Word, they do not shrink in the face of danger, nor do they fear people or seek the praise of others. But from deep within their hearts, they seek the praise of God and His blessing.

 

[Blain]

For the record ... I do not disagree with everything Peterlag has set out. It is true that when we are born again, we are born again of incorruptible seed (1 Peter 1:23) and incorruptible seed is incorruptible seed.

However, the incorruptible seed is housed in an earthen vessel which is corruptible and is easily tempted, drawn away, enticed by the lusts of the flesh. As we mature and grow up spiritually, we are less and less inclined to allow those lusts to draw us away from the Lord Jesus Christ and we enjoy a more full and robust relationship with the Lord.

I have been walking with the Lord for many years and I still do not 100% of the time cast down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ bring every thought captive to the obedience of Christ (2 Cor 10:5). And God has made provision for that eventuality (1 John 1:9) because He knows what we go through.





in agreement, Blain.

I love that I can fellowship with other knowledgeable believers and learn and gain/give insight into the Word of God. such a blessing!!!

I also do not disagree with him on all these things, he gives good teachings to a point it is only when he shows his disregard to the word and refuses to understand the point that we are trying to make that I call him out on it.
Some of his threads and posts I have enjoyed actually I have nothing against him as a person only his blindness and refusal to listen to others. And I agree I am very grateful to be able to be online with other believers and learn and grow and discuss the things of God it was absolute torture not being able to see well enough to be on cc for so long for me

 

[Blain]

So it seems you never considered the reason why you have to keep reading something that you think is too advanced to understand completely is because you simply do not understand it. Because the Scriptures are simple to understand. Even a child can understand it. You have to be an adult to make it difficult. And nobody has defeated what I post. There are many who simply disagree. And that does not make me wrong.

There is a difference between something being to deep to fully unveil and being to advanced, I may be a child at heart but when it comes to understanding the scriptures and the importance of it I am not the one who is in ignorance.
You say you no longer walk in the flesh yet you show it in your posts, you arrogantly think yourself something your not, you refuse to take into consideration of those more learned than you not just me but many on here as well, you speak against the word of God committing blasphemy and you fail to see your own sins while claiming to be without it.

in these things so far the sins I have seen is pride arrogance and blasphemy so no you do n90ot walk in the spirit because the spirit always leads and points us to Jesus and what is Jesus called in scripture? The word. Teachers like you I have seen and come accross many times, and I know it may be pointless to convince you otherwise seeing as how your kind willfully remain blind, but I have seen to many young believers damaged by such people to stand by and do nothing. Have you ever considered the damage your thinking can do to such people? when a new believer or even a believer who worries and fears about not being good enough not being pure enough constantly in chains by the doubt fear and worry of their sins by the enemy who have the enemy attack them on all sides as it is and then people like you come along and they see a mark they can never reach and begin to fall into the deepest abyss of despair.

I lost a friend such as this because of this specific teaching, he killed himself being already attacked by depression and always feeling to sinful no matter how hard he tried he thought God could not love him because of his mistakes and a certain teacher came on here and he saw one of his posts.

That is all it took he saw only one post spouting the same thing and he said goodbye to me saying he was not going to disgrace God anym ore by him being alive only so he can keep on failing him. I have personally seen the power words have both good and sadly bad, which is why I preach so much on how to be a teacher what it means and takes to be a teacher, I learned how to be a teacher by seeing what not to do

 

[Blain]

There is never been a good prophet or any other great man of God who ever lived according to the approval of his fellow men. Here's


Prophets are those who have God’s spirit, and therefore they are able to speak for God, because He makes Himself known to them. The world never looks upon prophets as being successful or popular among the public, and therefore they are never invited to compete with others to endeavor to become the most outstanding citizens of the community. They are usually reproached and hardly ever swim with the stream, the current of the times, and that is why their path is seldom smooth or easy.

The measure of a prophet’s success is the measure of faithfulness before God as God’s spokesperson, and never measured by the degree their testimony, witnessing, or speaking of God’s Word is received by others. Because they reverence and respect God’s Word, they do not shrink in the face of danger, nor do they fear people or seek the praise of others. But from deep within their hearts, they seek the praise of God and His blessing.

Unless you are implying you are a prophet I fail to see how this response has anything to do with the dorathies posts, a prophet if you are implying that is not what you are teaching

 

[reneweddaybyday]

So yeah I know what my students believe.

Not all members of this site are "your" students. You do know that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Head of the body, and that believers are to follow Him, yes?

Just because some of your doctrine has been called into question, this does not mean those who question do not know the truth of God's Word concerning the subject and/or that you cannot learn from others.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

If you do not understand the difference between the new and old covenant. Then I have nothing else to say to you.

Blik understands the difference between the new and old covenant. And if you would continue to read Scripture you might possibly recall that relegating members of the body of Christ as unneeded / unnecessary is not wise:

1 Corinthians 12:

18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?

20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.

21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.


Blik is a member in particular in the body of Christ, placed in the body as God has pleased. You have no authority to claim that you have no need of any member of the one body.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I don't live in the flesh anymore. This is probably why we cannot understand each other. I walk in the spirit.

You do "live in the flesh" and you do not "walk in the spirit" at all times. That is probably why Blain and others have issues with some of your beliefs/doctrine.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

... Because they reverence and respect God’s Word ...

You have a complete lack of reverence and respect for God's Word.

Maybe if you were a prophet you would have reverence and respect for God's Word.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I also do not disagree with him on all these things, he gives good teachings to a point it is only when he shows his disregard to the word and refuses to understand the point that we are trying to make that I call him out on it.
Some of his threads and posts I have enjoyed actually I have nothing against him as a person only his blindness and refusal to listen to others. And I agree I am very grateful to be able to be online with other believers and learn and grow and discuss the things of God it was absolute torture not being able to see well enough to be on cc for so long for me

Some very fine and knowledgeable believers have tried to reveal to Peterlag the error in his understanding of Scripture. Peterlag does not want to hear or learn so that he may be better equipped to share the truth of Scripture with others. When the understanding of men is mixed in with God's Word, the result is incorrect interpretation of God's Word.

 

[DorothyMae]

There is never been a good prophet or any other great man of God who ever lived according to the approval of his fellow men. Here's

There’s never been a true prophet who spoke of their own righteousness at length if at all. And to a man, they obeyed God. What is more, they were recognized by their fellow man as prophets. The true prophets are seen to be such by wise MEN. Sorry but in the kingdom of God you are the last one to claim the office with validity. Others make that call. Ignore them at your peril.

Prophets are those who have God’s spirit, and therefore they are able to speak for God, because He makes Himself known to them. The world never looks upon prophets as being successful or popular among the public, and therefore they are never invited to compete with others to endeavor to become the most outstanding citizens of the community. They are usually reproached and hardly ever swim with the stream, the current of the times, and that is why their path is seldom smooth or easy.

The measure of a prophet’s success is the measure of faithfulness before God as God’s spokesperson, and never measured by the degree their testimony, witnessing, or speaking of God’s Word is received by others. Because they reverence and respect God’s Word, they do not shrink in the face of danger, nor do they fear people or seek the praise of others. But from deep within their hearts, they seek the praise of God and His blessing.

You can read in the OT and will find men called them a prophet. False prophets claim it for themselves. False prophets speak of themselves. False prophets seek the admiration of men.

True prophet never speak of their own holiness or greatness. They know if God is speaking through them, the message will be about God, not them.

You talk too much about your own holiness to be speaking for Him.

 

[DorothyMae]

There is a difference between something being to deep to fully unveil and being to advanced, I may be a child at heart but when it comes to understanding the scriptures and the importance of it I am not the one who is in ignorance.
You say you no longer walk in the flesh yet you show it in your posts, you arrogantly think yourself something your not, you refuse to take into consideration of those more learned than you not just me but many on here as well, you speak against the word of God committing blasphemy and you fail to see your own sins while claiming to be without it.

in these things so far the sins I have seen is pride arrogance and blasphemy so no you do n90ot walk in the spirit because the spirit always leads and points us to Jesus and what is Jesus called in scripture? The word. Teachers like you I have seen and come accross many times, and I know it may be pointless to convince you otherwise seeing as how your kind willfully remain blind, but I have seen to many young believers damaged by such people to stand by and do nothing. Have you ever considered the damage your thinking can do to such people? when a new believer or even a believer who worries and fears about not being good enough not being pure enough constantly in chains by the doubt fear and worry of their sins by the enemy who have the enemy attack them on all sides as it is and then people like you come along and they see a mark they can never reach and begin to fall into the deepest abyss of despair.

I lost a friend such as this because of this specific teaching, he killed himself being already attacked by depression and always feeling to sinful no matter how hard he tried he thought God could not love him because of his mistakes and a certain teacher came on here and he saw one of his posts.

That is all it took he saw only one post spouting the same thing and he said goodbye to me saying he was not going to disgrace God anym ore by him being alive only so he can keep on failing him. I have personally seen the power words have both good and sadly bad, which is why I preach so much on how to be a teacher what it means and takes to be a teacher, I learned how to be a teacher by seeing what not to do

I’m thinking the above description. I wonder if the problem is the “gospel” we often preach. Perhaps people are told they are saved because they “invited (otherwise homeless) Jesus into their hearts” without experiencing repentance and forgiveness. Then the doctrine of all future sins forgiven prevents the necessary repentance later forcing the burden of sin to remain.

I ask it because when one has repented and experienced forgiveness (salvation) I do not see how one can experience what you describe. Those truly saved don’t get depressed from sin because we know the way to peace with God again. But those not really born from above are ignorant of this.

I’ve heard quite a few “gospel” messages where forgiveness is not even mentioned. Trying to be a christian without knowing forgiveness must be a terrible burden.

As for these guys who claim sinless lives, we need to ask if everyone who has to live with their words and behavior agree. Without sin is not a promise one can claim. One cannot read a complimentary verse about Jesus and by a series of assumptions claim that describes one too. But that is what they essentially do.

 

[Peterlag]

There’s never been a true prophet who spoke of their own righteousness at length if at all. And to a man, they obeyed God. What is more, they were recognized by their fellow man as prophets. The true prophets are seen to be such by wise MEN. Sorry but in the kingdom of God you are the last one to claim the office with validity. Others make that call. Ignore them at your peril.

You can read in the OT and will find men called them a prophet. False prophets claim it for themselves. False prophets speak of themselves. False prophets seek the admiration of men.

True prophet never speak of their own holiness or greatness. They know if God is speaking through them, the message will be about God, not them.

You talk too much about your own holiness to be speaking for Him.

I only speak about myself in answering your many questions about me. Since you cannot understand the Word I share is why you keep bringing it back to me.