What 3 verses say that a lost man cannot believe the gospel?

[jackrosie]

Jackrosle, with all due respect, I believe that the scriptures teach that after we have been born again, we still retain our fleshly nature and struggle within ourselves with a battle of our fleshly desires against our spiritual nature. Paul explains this in Romans 7:14-25.

The natural man, before he has been regenerated, does not have this warfare within himself. He does not have spiritual faith, which comes with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as a fruit of the Holy Spirit. His faith is the faith of man and his accomplishments.

Yes,I agree.....also with out God regenerating me,filling me with His Spirit../ testifying to my Spirit,that I am his adopted child,...I could not understand scripture as a natural human being,..my ex brother in law was a born again,as a non believer I hadn’t a clue what he was talking about.....as the Lord hadn’t regenerated me,....we become spiritual when we are born again,I understood what it was to be born again,....

But there has been a lot i also had to understand,which took time,the Lord showed me what scripture means,

My belief is.only God can lead you through scripture and open it up to you.

You are a very mature Christian,FGC,it shows in your posts,I have a lot of catching up to do,to get to your level in Christ.

That is my belief.....I’m not saying I’m right....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Luke 17:6 He replied, "If you have faith as small as a mustard ...

... And the Lord said, "If you had faith like a mustard seed, you would say to this
mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and be planted in the sea'; and it would obey you


Matthew 17:20 He replied, "Because you have so little faith. Truly ...

... "Because your faith is so small," He replied; "for I solemnly declare to you that
if you have faith like a mustard-seed, you shall say to this mountain

Mustard seed like faith would make you able to do those things.
How may times over does that little seed increase in size as it comes into the fullness of its size?
This is your increase into the likeness and power of Christ Jesus if you can believe in how great the salvation is that is in you.

a mustard seed does not have faith, it is put in the grounddead and comes to life and grows. Into an enormous tree

what you are saying here makes no sense

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Good day to you. You've proven my point. You wrote the posts wherein you reworded the scripture pertaining to the tax collector and pharisee. Now you think I have to prove you reworded the scripture in your own postings that refer to the tax collector and pharisee?

You are playing the game here. You avoided the responsibility for that from the first time I addressed the matter and dodged the responsibility for it as you are again now.

Further, don't implicate a sister in this. That is a cowards move to be quite blunt. You have a cheek to pray for her when you refuse to acknowledge what you do wrong here. You play games! In fact, this game that has gone this far with you refusing to acknowledge what you've written about the tax collector and pharisee in your own words, opposite of God's makes me wonder if the reason you don't accept the responsibility is because these few pages after doing that you feign you have no idea what I'm talking about. And that makes me wonder if it is you that wrote those posts that altered the scripture pertaining to the tax collector and pharisee.

That would be a game indeed. Sharing an account here. That would explain how you don't recall what you wrote but want others to remind you. And then you turn dark when they refuse.
I think you may be surprised at how many here have you on their prayer list.

Bins? Are for dust. Not prayer!

He reached out to save us, we only in faith bowed down so he could save us

the tax collector did not reach out, he got on his knees unable even to look up, God grabbed him

what is wrong you can not tell everyone I am wrong so you have to act like a child?

did the tax collector reach out to God?

who went home justified? He saved him? Did he reach his hand out to God or did God reach out his hand to him?

not sure what church you go to. But I am worried about how you think you were saved.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

WOW! Not only do you add your own words to scripture, i.e. the pharisee and tax collector verse, but you also add your own maligning thoughts to others postings, in this case per your reference to my observations earlier about Tulip, my post.

I'll be really really direct here so that there is no equivocation even from someone who disrespects members and the scripture by corrupting what exists with your own bad fiction.
What you're saying I said about Jesus is a DAMNED FROM THE PIT OF HELL LIE!

The one seeking to destroy is you! Even Satan comes clad as an angel of light. And why not? He was the light bringer Lucifer before his fall!
Maybe that is why your last name is spelled wrong. Maybe what you're telling us by that is you're here to eternally grate on the nerves of Christians fully.
Because Grateful is the true spelling. You can't even respect the dictionary's entry for the actual writing of Grateful?
There's a pattern to your posting. A bad one from the start of your name.

Yes, this is mean. You're right. That's because I rebuke those who lie about what I say about Jesus my Savior!
And I make no apologies. God tells us to do this. In love? When God opened Hell to receive humans after creating it for Satan and his fallen, maybe God's telling us that love is subjective. In this case, maybe love is telling you that your fruits are glaring! And ROTTEN!


But you're still breathing.
That means you can repent.

I won't be reading you anymore. Quite simply, it isn't worth it.

Should I call you preacher? You sure do act like him,everytime someone disagrees with you you get angry and go of on some war to try to prove them wrong, unable to even discuss anything
this was quoted from what you wrote

(calvinism) in its entirety makes Jesus and his death unnecessary. It vacates entirely the gospel, and the crucifixion and resurrection.

to which the one who quoted you responded by saying ballgame

1. if you did not say it, the. The poster who added it to your quote something you did not say should be spoken to, and you better speak to him like you speak to me

2. if you did not say it, forgive me

3. if you did say it, my point stands, your wrong, and need to study up on calvinism some, because you have told a bold faced lie about their belief (hypocritical much) and you need to look in the mirror.

stop getting so mad everytime someone disagrees with you, it is unbecoming,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

With respect, EG, their views are incorrect and worthless while what Soggy said to counter their views is spot on accurate.

With respect bro, their views are incorrect.

but what he said concerning Jesus and his death not needed in their view is dead wrong
there could be no justification apart from Jesus death. So even if they were regenerated, apart from Jesus deat there would be no justification, they may understand God, but they will still pay for their sins in the end, that payment would be hell

there is no salvation apart from justification,

there is no justification apart from the atoning work of Christ,

they would tell you the same thing

I spralph to them about things they say concerning us which is not true, (And you see how a lot of them responded, just like I am being responded to) it would make me a hypocrite if I did not speak to us when we do the same to them

we do not like when they do it to us, we should not do it to them.

 

[Grandpa]

Everyone who hears the Name Jesus Christ makes a choice whether or not to believe in Him. You’re saying people who choose to believe in Jesus are electing themselves to salvation? Where do you get this crap? Show me where that crap is written in Scripture?

So everyone elects themselves to Salvation. I wonder where you get that crap. Is it in the bible?

But here is God being the One doing the electing, in scripture;

Romans 9:22-24
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

[Grandpa]

In summary nothing good or biblical in Calvinism.

That's a lie.

Is that how you can tell when someone has elected themselves? They lie?

People who worship their own will say whatever is necessary to continue in what they worship.

 

[throughfaith]

How can anyone believe before they are saved?....God saves us,which brings us to believe....how else can we believe,how can we bring ourselves to believe?

Why can they believe in the quran and not the bible?

 

[throughfaith]

That's a lie.

Is that how you can tell when someone has elected themselves? They lie?

People who worship their own will say whatever is necessary to continue in what they worship.

Thats an odd phrase ' worshipping the will '. I recognise it because I know its calvinistic jargon. Usually used to virtue signal and shame someone out of their position .

 

[throughfaith]

That's a lie.

Is that how you can tell when someone has elected themselves? They lie?

People who worship their own will say whatever is necessary to continue in what they worship.

Elected to do what ?

 

[throughfaith]

So everyone elects themselves to Salvation. I wonder where you get that crap. Is it in the bible?

But here is God being the One doing the electing, in scripture;

Romans 9:22-24
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

There are 2 callings: Gospel and vocational, not inward or outward or effectual or ineffectual, etc… (2 Thess. 2:14; Eph. 4:1; Rom. 8:28; 2 Cor. 5:20)

 

[throughfaith]

Hebrews 5:9 - and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

Romans 16:26 - But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

True faith is in obedience.
To obey faith and lay hold of the source of our eternal salvation.
That being the life of Christ Jesus being alive in us.

Through faith:
Believing -> obeying -> eternal salvation

Hebrews 12:13-15 -Make straight paths for your feet, so that the lame may not be debilitated, but rather healed.
Pursue peace with all men, as well as holiness, without which no one will see the Lord. (Some times whispers are louder.)
Be careful that no one falls short of the grace of God...

Hmm...
So how is it that one can fall short of Grace???
Something to consider.

Rom 6.17
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye HAVE OBEYED from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

 

[throughfaith]

So Abraham was declared righteous before He got up that morning?

We are told to obey the Gospel as sinners .. ( lost ) once we have obeyed through faith we are saved . simple . Abraham also obeyed and through faith was saved .

 

[throughfaith]

Context, once again what kind of works are we talking about here.
The works of the Law.
Says nothing at all in regards to the works of faith



Context, Jesus did not save or call us because of our works. AKA why he did it was of his own purpose and grace
Says nothing to our works of faith in laying hold of that which Christ laid hold of us for.


Context, what kind of works are we talking about here?
Works according to our own righteousness?
Again says nothing in regards to our works if Faith like Abraham.


Romans 4:2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had ...

If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had
something to boast about--but not before God. ...
//biblehub.com/romans/4-2.htm - 18k

Context: works of the Law.

James 2:25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute ...

... And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when
she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? ...
//biblehub.com/james/2-25.htm - 19k

Context: works of Faith

James 2:24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what ...

... You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. ... You see
that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. ...
//biblehub.com/james/2-24.htm - 17k

Context: works of Faith

James 2:21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for ...

... Was not Abraham our father justified by works when
he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? ...
//biblehub.com/james/2-21.htm - 18k

Context: works of Faith

Galatians 2:16 know that a person is not justified by the works of ...

... yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith
in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be ...
//biblehub.com/galatians/2-16.htm - 22k

Context: works of the Law.

Romans 3:28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith ...

... For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. ... For we maintain
that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. ...
//biblehub.com/romans/3-28.htm - 17k

Context: works of the Law.

Romans 3:20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's ...

... For no one will be justified in His sight by the works of the law,
because the knowledge of sin comes through the law. ...
//biblehub.com/romans/3-20.htm - 18k

Context: works of the Law.

Matthew 11:19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they ...

... And wisdom is justified by her works. .... ... And wisdom is justified by her works. ...
//biblehub.com/matthew/11-19.htm - 19k

Context: works of Faith AKA the works of wisdom.

If you can not delineate between the two kinds of works at play here then for you the bible is against itself.
We know the bible is not against itself
Let God be true and every man a liar.

So which one is the liar.
Paul or James or the foolish fellow who speak against the word of God when it clearly says?

"You see that a person is justified by works"

What is useless faith?
It is faith without the works of faith that justify.
So is a person really justified by works?
What kind of works justify?
The works of the law, no
So what kind?
The kind of works that makes Faith something other then useless/worthless/inactive
So lets all come to the obedience of faith and be justified by our works.
Let stop rejecting on part of the word of God for another in our ignorance regarding the different kinds of works being discussed.

How many 'works ' did rahab have to do ?

 

[Grandpa]

Thats an odd phrase ' worshipping the will '. I recognise it because I know its calvinistic jargon. Usually used to virtue signal and shame someone out of their position .

Isn't that what someone who worships their will does, though?

They give God their permission. Because the Will is God and their god can't do anything against the Will.

That's the position those who worship their will have put theirselves in. They can stammer and try to explain all they want why that isn't true. But it is.

 

[Grandpa]

Elected to do what ?

HAH!

Excellent question...

 

[throughfaith]

Im not ignoring anything I am trying to open hour eyes to the context.
If I speak about the works of the law all through my letter to you and in on place I just say works
Should you not understand that I mean works of the law?

James 2:24
As you can see, a man is justified by his works and not by faith alone.

Clearly and plainly a man is justified by his works.

To reject this is to reject the very word of God.
Now Paul appears to be saying the exact opposite.
So you must ask yourself are Paul and James speaking of different kinds of works?
One kind that justifies and one kind that does not justify?
Are you to take one verse above another, or use one to negate the other?
No.
You are to understand the context and if needed move yourself to a new perspective to find the unity in the word of God that you lack.
Paul is constantly speaking about the works of the law.
James is speaking about the works of faith.

One of these works is not like the other.
One of these works just does not belong.
Sing it with me.
One of these works is not like the other
One of these works just does not belong.

Can you remember your sesame street days?

Why this is such an issue, Because people love the lie, because their deeds are evil.
If one is justified by the works faith, the works of believing then what become of all those who faith is worthless and dead?
They will hear depart from my you who practice lawlessness.
But what God is going to deny ever knowing those who don't keep the law?
How is that when the works of the law made no one righteous?
Well that is just it, the works of Faith do make one righteous and lawful and is the only way to believe and know God.
The one who practices sin has neither seen or known God.

What the law could not do (make you lawful because the outcome of your works depended on you)
God did (because the outcome of your works in faith depend on God in Christ)
As Paul says those who do not have the written law keep the law because they have the law written on their hearts, by God himself.

Are you justified now ?

 

[jackrosie]

Why can they believe in the quran and not the bible?

A man can only believe what is given from Heaven..

 

[throughfaith]

A man can only believe what is given from Heaven.

Show me what God has not given after John 3.27 ?

 

[Grandpa]

Show me what God has not given after John 3.27 ?

He has not given Salvation, understanding or belief until He draws them to Christ.