Was The Book Of Revelation Written Pre-70AD As Many Claim?

[GraceAndTruth]

I also hold the Ahmillennial views as you, exactly the same

Jesus Christ returns in Final Judgement by fire, the heavens and earth are dissolved, the new heaven and earth are revealed for eternity, judgement complete, No Millennium On This Earth.

However concerning the olivet discourse in Matthew 24, the (Futurist) have it right, and your (Historicist) views in (Partial Preterism) 66-70AD fulfillment is wrong.

Ahmillennialism and the Olivet discourse in Matthew 24 are two completely different subjects

(Future Events Unfulfilled)

Matt 24:15, Daniel's AOD

Matt 24:21, The Great Tribulation

Matt 24:29-3, The Second Coming

Olivet Discourse IS about the trib and just saying I am wrong does not prove anything. AND it is RUDE.
Matt 24:15, Daniel's AOD
Daniel's abomination of desolation is an army.......1290 days of the siege of Jerusalem, v 12 but attain to the 1335 day and be blesses
45 days after the destruction of the temple, the ARMY left...went back to Rome. You consistantly will NOT deal with Luke when he calls it an army. ARMY.... ..(sigh) Daniel has no future antichrist

Matt 24:21, The Great Tribulation
Yes the great trib what about it?

Matt 24:29-3, The Second Coming
Yes..........and?

 

[posthuman]

10 horns

Toes of iron mixed with clay

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Your claims are false once again, ahmillennialism has no association with Preterism, they are two different isolated subjects, don't suggest they are one and the same, a false claim.

1. Ahmillennialism believes Jesus Christ returns in fire and Final judgement, (No Millennium To Follow)

Preterism relates directly to the interpretation of Matthew Chapter 24 Olivet Discourse, namely the three items seen below

(Historicism) that you believe and teach is in the (Partial Preterist) camp

I'm Ahmillennial as you, with a (Futurist) belief as it relates to Matthew 24 and the olivet discourse.

(Partial Preterism) believes items 1&2 below were fulfilled in the 1st century, item 3 is future

(Full Preterism) believes all 3 items below were fulfilled in the 1st century

(Futurism) believes all 3 items below are future

(Olivet Discourse)

1.) Matt 24:15, Daniel's AOD
2.) Matt 24:21, The Great Tribulation
3.) Matt 24:29-30, The Second Coming

1. Daniel refers to an army.....that retreats after 1335 days. 1290=3 1/2 years of the siege + 45 days after end of siege the army of Rome retreated back to Rome.
2. yes, the great trib.......what about it?
3. yes the second coming .. what about it?


Big news flash for you..........it is NOT AHmillenianism..........it is Amillenianism.
I asked you before if AHmillenianism means people read Revelation and say AAhhhhhh.

I prefer not to address the issue of defining the differing eschatology positions. You are not an authority, but wiser heads are and have defined it just fine for everyone but you. I don't know who you are relying on for your information, but you need another source

Your stubborn refusal to deal with Luke about your "AOD" has been redundant from the beginning because, once again, you just HAVE to be right no matter what you are shown from scripture that proves you are wrong.

 

[iamsoandso]

AHHHH....hmmm. Never looked at it like that. I'm putting that in the "pondering" part of my brain.
How did you find a start date??

The sons of Issachar once knew the times https://biblehub.com/1_chronicles/12-32.htm but as time went on that no longer took place as Jesus stated in https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 16:3&version=KJV so since they did not understand the time of their visitation this took place https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke 19:44&version=KJV

The sun stopped a full day in https://biblehub.com/joshua/10-13.htm and it moved back ten steps in time in https://biblehub.com/isaiah/38-8.htm and then the times are cut short in https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 24:22&version=KJV but no one knows but the father https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 24:36&version=KJV

so even though it is 5780 to the Hebrews it is apparent that it is not the correct year as they think it is so we are told to watch because we don't know. there are the one hundred and twenty jubilees and one hundred and twenty fifty years of jubilees is six thousand years or six days. It is why they were punished for seventy weeks,that is they did not let the land rest that many times. If the grain is brought to the priest and it is almost under ripe it will not acceptable next year so an month is added to the calendar but if it is almost over ripe then a month is removed and you will know when to come next year. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Chronicles 36:21&version=KJV

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Toes of iron mixed with clay

As synbolism goes.....looks like something strong with a weakness

 

[Truth7t7]

Olivet Discourse IS about the trib and just saying I am wrong does not prove anything. AND it is RUDE.
Matt 24:15, Daniel's AOD
Daniel's abomination of desolation is an army.......1290 days of the siege of Jerusalem, v 12 but attain to the 1335 day and be blesses
45 days after the destruction of the temple, the ARMY left...went back to Rome. You consistantly will NOT deal with Luke when he calls it an army. ARMY.... ..(sigh) Daniel has no future antichrist

Matt 24:21, The Great Tribulation
Yes the great trib what about it?

Matt 24:29-3, The Second Coming
Yes..........and?

Your claim of rude is childish, as you use this as a defense, a tactic to gain the upper hand, taint working, smiles!

Then you disregard to post and claims without answers, now that's rude.

 

[Truth7t7]

The sons of Issachar once knew the times https://biblehub.com/1_chronicles/12-32.htm but as time went on that no longer took place as Jesus stated in https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 16:3&version=KJV so since they did not understand the time of their visitation this took place https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke 19:44&version=KJV

The sun stopped a full day in https://biblehub.com/joshua/10-13.htm and it moved back ten steps in time in https://biblehub.com/isaiah/38-8.htm and then the times are cut short in https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 24:22&version=KJV but no one knows but the father https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 24:36&version=KJV

so even though it is 5780 to the Hebrews it is apparent that it is not the correct year as they think it is so we are told to watch because we don't know. there are the one hundred and twenty jubilees and one hundred and twenty fifty years of jubilees is six thousand years or six days. It is why they were punished for seventy weeks,that is they did not let the land rest that many times. If the grain is brought to the priest and it is almost under ripe it will not acceptable next year so an month is added to the calendar but if it is almost over ripe then a month is removed and you will know when to come next year. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Chronicles 36:21&version=KJV

What does your response have to do with dating the book of revelation?

 

[GraceAndTruth]

The sons of Issachar once knew the times https://biblehub.com/1_chronicles/12-32.htm but as time went on that no longer took place as Jesus stated in https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 16:3&version=KJV so since they did not understand the time of their visitation this took place https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke 19:44&version=KJV

The sun stopped a full day in https://biblehub.com/joshua/10-13.htm and it moved back ten steps in time in https://biblehub.com/isaiah/38-8.htm and then the times are cut short in https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 24:22&version=KJV but no one knows but the father https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 24:36&version=KJV

so even though it is 5780 to the Hebrews it is apparent that it is not the correct year as they think it is so we are told to watch because we don't know. there are the one hundred and twenty jubilees and one hundred and twenty fifty years of jubilees is six thousand years or six days. It is why they were punished for seventy weeks,that is they did not let the land rest that many times. If the grain is brought to the priest and it is almost under ripe it will not acceptable next year so an month is added to the calendar but if it is almost over ripe then a month is removed and you will know when to come next year. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Chronicles 36:21&version=KJV

I'm sure you have given a lot of study to your view. I am going to look up all those verses and maybe I will see what you see.
One thing I know for sure......God did not hide His message to His people ...... He has told us all we need to know and hidden none of that in some esoteric meanings that only some will figure out.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Your claim of rude is childish, as you use this as a defense, a tactic to gain the upper hand, taint working, smiles!

Then you disregard to post and claims without answers, now that's rude.

Thank you.....being called "childish" is a compliment at my age.

Hard to answer a question that isn't asked.

 

[GaryA]

We adhere to Peter's words when he said that after the rapture the earth will be destroyed by intense heat.

Peter's words are true; however, they do not say 'right after'.

The passage tells us that everything it is describing [actually] occurs over a span of time that is 1000 years.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Peter's words are true; however, they do not say 'right after'.

The passage tells us that everything it is describing [actually] occurs over a span of time that is 1000 years.

Logically, Peter is telling of events to come in the order of their coming....to mention destruction in that order it would be the plain meaning that destruction follows without a long time period in between the rapture and destruction. It is a COMPLETE SENTENCE, to be quoted and understood as any full sentence should be.

Unless the person asking is a Full or Partial Preterist...........?

 

[GaryA]

(Historicism) that you believe and teach is in the (Partial Preterist) camp

(Partial Preterism) believes items 1&2 below were fulfilled in the 1st century, item 3 is future

(Full Preterism) believes all 3 items below were fulfilled in the 1st century

(Futurism) believes all 3 items below are future

(Olivet Discourse)

1.) Matt 24:15, Daniel's AOD
2.) Matt 24:21, The Great Tribulation
3.) Matt 24:29-30, The Second Coming

And, the "true historicism" belief is that #1 is past, #2 is present, and #3 is future.

('present' => past-present-future)

 

[iamsoandso]

What does your response have to do with dating the book of revelation?

She ask a question of how I found a date to start with in reference to the midst of the week to fix a date of the writing of Revelation look at Revelation 17:8 and notice that the beast that was,is not yet is is in the pit at the time it's written. Notice that the ten horns and seventh head had not yet come into existence when it was written. Notice it is the scarlet colored beast being shown to John and go back to Revelation 12 and then you will see that Revelation 17 is telling you the date it was written by telling you what existed and what did not at the time it was written( approx ad96) ...

 

[Truth7t7]

Your stubborn refusal to deal with Luke about your "AOD" has been redundant from the beginning because, once again, you just HAVE to be right no matter what you are shown from scripture that proves you are wrong.

No stubborn refusal, just presented facts.

As John MacArthur explains the basic (Historicist) view below that many follow.

Daniel's AOD seen in Matthew 24:15 was Antiochus Epiphanies 175-165BC

GraceToYou

John MacArthur

Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand). (Matthew 24:15)

The abomination of desolation may be translated, “the abomination which makes desolate, or lays waste.” In other words, the abomination causes the desolation.

The prophet Daniel referred to the abomination of desolation three times (9:27; 11:31; 12:11). Virtually every Bible scholar, no matter what his views on eschatology, identifies that abomination as the sacrilege committed by Antiochus IV, the Syrian king who ruled Palestine from 175–165 b.c. as a surrogate of the Greek empire. He took to himself the title Theos Epiphanes, which means “manifest god,” but his enemies nicknamed him Epimanes, which means “madman” or “the insane one.” Ironically, when he died in 163, he was totally insane, outraged to the point of madness because of his military defeats by the Jewish rebel Judas Maccabaeus. The text of Daniel 11:21–35 perfectly describes the rule of Antiochus, who gained his throne “by intrigue” (v. 21), made numerous excursions into Egypt (vv. 24–27), broke his covenant with Israel (v. 28), and desecrated the Temple in Jerusalem (v. 31).

 

[SoulWeaver]

And, the "true historicism" belief is that #1 is past, #2 is present, and #3 is future.

('present' => past-present-future)

I have no idea what "historicism" is, but even science states that time is an illusion...
Past, present and future are all revealed through the "now". So all the fights and arguments are basically futile.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

No stubborn refusal, just presented facts.

As John MacArthur explains the basic (Historicist) view below that many follow.

Daniel's AOD seen in Matthew 24:15 was Antiochus Epiphanies 175-165BC

GraceToYou

John MacArthur

Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand). (Matthew 24:15)

The abomination of desolation may be translated, “the abomination which makes desolate, or lays waste.” In other words, the abomination causes the desolation.

The prophet Daniel referred to the abomination of desolation three times (9:27; 11:31; 12:11). Virtually every Bible scholar, no matter what his views on eschatology, identifies that abomination as the sacrilege committed by Antiochus IV, the Syrian king who ruled Palestine from 175–165 b.c. as a surrogate of the Greek empire. He took to himself the title Theos Epiphanes, which means “manifest god,” but his enemies nicknamed him Epimanes, which means “madman” or “the insane one.” Ironically, when he died in 163, he was totally insane, outraged to the point of madness because of his military defeats by the Jewish rebel Judas Maccabaeus. The text of Daniel 11:21–35 perfectly describes the rule of Antiochus, who gained his throne “by intrigue” (v. 21), made numerous excursions into Egypt (vv. 24–27), broke his covenant with Israel (v. 28), and desecrated the Temple in Jerusalem (v. 31).

MacArthur......no wonder. Now I see the problem.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

I have no idea what "historicism" is, but even science states that time is an illusion...
Past, present and future are all revealed through the "now". So all the fights and arguments are basically futile.

People are getting this stuff from John MacDonald.

 

[Truth7t7]

And, the "true historicism" belief is that #1 is past, #2 is present, and #3 is future.

('present' => past-present-future)

Thanks for the response and input, to put Matthew 24:15 as fulfilled still sees historicism in the (Partial Preterist) camp

The main thrust is (Historicism) sees Matthew 24:15 AOD as fulfilled

This AOD causes those to flee as seen in Matthew 24:16-21 causing the great tribulation

Jesus Christ returns immediately after the Tribulation of (Those Days)

In effect, Historicism believes this great Tribulation seen in Matthew 24:21 was fulfilled in the 1st century as stated in the opinion

Historicism is in the (Partial Preterist) camp, simple.

 

[SoulWeaver]

People are getting this stuff from John MacDonald.

I have no idea what "stuff", or who this MacDonald guy is. I don't really follow the whole theology scene. I've got my "stuff" from a documentary about A. Einstein.

 

[Truth7t7]

MacArthur......no wonder. Now I see the problem.

John MacArthur Is One Of (Many) Who Teach And Believe The Views.

Glad to see your learning, yes the basic historical biblical view and teaching is Antiochus Epiphanies 175-165BC was fulfillment of Matthew 24:15 in Daniel's AOD

Yes these teachers claim Matthew wrote a Warning (When Ye Shall See) 200+ years after its fulfillment.