Not By Works

[Phoneman-777]

Another one of those widely misunderstood verse, read it properly in Galatians 6

(Context) 14 But far be it from me to boast, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world hath been crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.

16 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Paul is distinguishing between 2 groups in vs 16. Those in the Body of Christ who walk by the rule of no physical circumcision, AND the Israel of God (which reflects the little flock of Messianic believers who still believe in physical circumcision and being zealous about the Law of Moses (Acts 21:19-21)

19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

So no, the Galatians church cannot be the Israel of God

Wait, are you saying immediately after Paul goes on record in verses 14 and 15 declaring before God and everyone else that the Cross wipes out the distinction between Jew and Gentile...in the very next verse he turns around and in the same breath makes a distinction between Jew and Gentile??!!

No way. I think I've just shown where the misunderstanding lies

 

[Guojing]

Wait, are you saying immediately after Paul goes on record in verses 14 and 15 declaring before God and everyone else that the Cross wipes out the distinction between Jew and Gentile...in the very next verse he turns around and in the same breath makes a distinction between Jew and Gentile??!!

No way. I think I've just shown where the misunderstanding lies

In the Body of Christ, there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile, as you said. But Israel still comprise of only believing Jews, as Acts 21:19-25 indicated.

He is distinguishing between Israel and the Body of Christ, not Jew and gentile, as agreed with Peter James and John in the Jerusalem council event in Galatians 2:7-9

7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles)

9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

 

[gb9]

Yes, so true. The "seat of the scornful" is where those who are full of pride sit and curse those perceived as inferior or worthless. Good thing Jesus didn't go that route.

in was speaking of you, and all your puffed up ranting .

repent of your pride, admit you are sinner, and trust the sinless Savior.

 

[Runningman]

The 2nd covers it directly and possibly the 10th, indirectly.

Again, the Law of Liberty is the Ten Commandments, the standard by which we are going to be judged.

So whenever you show favoritism for one person over another you think you're in direct violation of the 2nd and 10th commandment?

By the way, nothing in James 2 implies they were making a carved image to bow down to or were coveting their neighbor's possessions. So you're definitely incorrect, but just to prove it let's use an example.

Since you say so, if you provide for your family first before random strangers you're showing favoritism.

How are you going to avoid showing favoritism if you have to provide for your family using your limited resources?

1 Timothy 5:8
8But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

 

[star]

Good news today from my surgeon. I am feeling all the prayers. Thanks and God bless

 

[star]

There is a huge difference between criticism of the individual and the individual's beliefs.

Those who lack the ability to discern between the two show themselves spiritually immature and ill-equipped to engage in controversial public discourse because any criticism of their ideas is perceived as a personal attack.

Their irresponsible accusations of abuse which inevitably follow should be immediately dismissed as weaponized childish nonsense that is intended to silence their opposition's unanswerable arguments and obstruct the free exchange of ideas. Please stop seeking victim status - nobody is trying to hurt you.

You do a lot of criticizing. Free exchange of ideas is not in your posts.

 

[star]

Too often, many Christians start out on the Path of the Just but soon wind up falling into the deadly ditch of Legalism - their attempts to overcome sin in their own strength are met with one failure after the next, until finally all hope is lost. God's commandments are found to be too grievous because their love of God is overshadowed by their love of sin.

In desperation, they claw their way out of the deadly ditch of Legalism only to immediately fall into the other deadly ditch of License. There, they find rest from the conflict between satanic temptation and Holy Spirit conviction in the form of a OSAS License to Sin, which allows them to continue doing the exact same thing for which the lost will suffer eternal consequences. Any attempts to arouse them to the danger they're in are seen by them as only "hate" and "judgment" towards them because their love of God is overshadowed by their love of sin.

It's likely your experience is no different than that described above. Why don't you purpose in your heart to walk the middle of the Path where Jesus is and obtain from His continuous, never-failing power to overcome temptation and habits?

Your posts are so critical and judgmental. Have you removed that beam in your own eye?

 

[Magenta]

Same thing led to my walk away from God for 5 years, lordship salvation can be cruel. God says he is our Abba father and we do not need to fear him because we have the spirit of adoption, we please him because we want to not because we have to. And we also know when we do not obey, he does discipline us but in love not in anger,

Romans 8:15-16

 

[Phoneman-777]

In the Body of Christ, there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile, as you said. But Israel still comprise of only believing Jews, as Acts 21:19-25 indicated.

He is distinguishing between Israel and the Body of Christ, not Jew and gentile, as agreed with Peter James and John in the Jerusalem council event in Galatians 2:7-9

7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles)

9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

So, you're just gonna ignore those texts I showed you which prove the only "Israelites" God recognizes today are those who are "in Christ", right? No matter, I'll show you how your Dispensationalism "proof texts" actually support my position:

While Paul says undeniably that the spiritual, inward distinction between Jew/Gentile post-Calvary has vanished and that an Israelite is no longer identified by race, but by grace ------ for the purposes of spreading the Gospel and clarifying truth, it would have been extremely impractical for the apostles to ignore the obvious physical, cultural, and theological differences between Jew/Gentile. Thus, it was necessary to maintain a literal, outward distinction for that reason, and that reason alone.

Does the gift of salvation concern itself with issues involving race or grace?
Does God's New Covenant concern itself with issues involving race or grace?
Does church membership concern itself with issues involving race or grace?

Again, in order to "establish" Dispensationalism, you are using texts which make a literal, outward distinction for the specific, lone purpose of spreading the Gospel/clarifying truth to undermine the fact that the only Israelite God recognizes is he who accepts salvation, partakes of the New Covenant, and is a member of "the Israel of God", the Christian church.

 

[Phoneman-777]

in was speaking of you, and all your puffed up ranting .

repent of your pride, admit you are sinner, and trust the sinless Savior.

Confidence is often jealously mistaken as arrogance by those who know their beliefs can't stand the test of Biblical scrutiny, but can't find the courage to abandon them.

 

[Phoneman-777]

So whenever you show favoritism for one person over another you think you're in direct violation of the 2nd and 10th commandment? By the way, nothing in James 2 implies they were making a carved image to bow down to or were coveting their neighbor's possessions.

"Spirit of the Law":
Isn't the point of 2nd Comm to abstain from casting misplaced adoration, to which James clearly refers? Also falls under the 10th Comm because those who show ill-motivated favor to others do so with an expectation of some emotional or monetary return on their investment.

Since you say so, if you provide for your family first before random strangers you're showing favoritism. How are you going to avoid showing favoritism if you have to provide for your family using your limited resources?
1 Timothy 5:8
8But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

There's a diff between favoritism and prioritization. 1 Timothy 5:8 KJV prioritizes family, but don't worry: God knows when we're guilty of "sins of omission" where strangers are concerned.

 

[Phoneman-777]

You do a lot of criticizing. Free exchange of ideas is not in your posts.

Sure, sure, you keep saying that but you've yet to find a post where I attacked someone's character, right?

Do you even know what "free exchange of ideas" means? It's not the same as like on Christmas morning where everyone smiles and says "thank you, I love it!"

 

[Phoneman-777]

Your posts are so critical and judgmental. Have you removed that beam in your own eye?

As long as they're not in error, call them what you want. And how do you know if I have any beams in it?

 

[Guojing]

for the purposes of spreading the Gospel and clarifying truth, it would have been extremely impractical for the apostles to ignore the obvious physical, cultural, and theological differences between Jew/Gentile. Thus, it was necessary to maintain a literal, outward distinction for that reason, and that reason alone.

I read Acts 21:20-25 literally.

The little flock kept the Law of Moses, even after they believe in Jesus as their Messiah, because they are zealous for the Law (Acts 21:20).

James himself emphasize to these Jewish believers that "faith without works cannot save someone (James 2:14). Keeping the law for them, including physical circumcision, is not just for "outward distinction" alone.

 

[Runningman]

"Spirit of the Law":
Isn't the point of 2nd Comm to abstain from casting misplaced adoration, to which James clearly refers? Also falls under the 10th Comm because those who show ill-motivated favor to others do so with an expectation of some emotional or monetary return on their investment.
There's a diff between favoritism and prioritization. 1 Timothy 5:8 KJV prioritizes family, but don't worry: God knows when we're guilty of "sins of omission" where strangers are concerned.

The text in James 2 literally says they were showing preferential treatment to people with money and giving them a good place to sit while telling the poor people they can stand or sit on the floor.

Having a preference in and of itself isn't creating an idol or coveting someone's possessions. By that line of reasoning if you have any preference or have a job where you seek an income you're violating the the 2nd and 10th.

I just don't buy that.

Anyway, James doesn't even list the 2nd and 10th commandment in James 2 because if it was relevant he would have said so.

Seriously, the royal law is the law of liberty. It just means love your neighbor as yourself.

Anyway, as James 2 says we should speak and act as those who will be judged by the Law of Liberty (royal law) because if we love our neighbor as ourselves we won't be showing favoritism or giving the good seat to rich people and telling poor people to sit on the floor.

 

[Phoneman-777]

I read Acts 21:20-25 literally.

Yes, the Jerusalem church in Acts 21:20-25 KJV was so put off by Paul's colossal screw up for having told the Jewish believers in Gentyland to abandon the Mosaic Law...that they all "rejoiced", right?

Wrong. They were extremely happy with everything concerning Paul's Gospel success, including his instructions that those Jews should abandon the Mosaic Law, as evidenced by their rejoicing. Then, after the party died down, they informed Paul that zealous Jews in Jerusalem weren't too keen on the rumors of what Paul said about the Mosaic Law to those other Jews...so, y'know what was the solution they came up with?

1 Corinthians (KJV)​

9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;​

9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.​

​

See what I did there? I showed you that you keep taking verses which, for the sake of practicality in spreading the Gospel and clarifying truth, maintain the literal outward distinction between Jew and Gentile -- and want to make them refer to a continuation of the old spiritual inward distinction (which vanished at the Cross) so that your Dispensationlist ideas might be established. Not by this passage

​

 

[gb9]

Yes, the Jerusalem church in Acts 21:20-25 KJV was so put off by Paul's colossal screw up for having told the Jewish believers in Gentyland to abandon the Mosaic Law...that they all "rejoiced", right?

Wrong. They were extremely happy with everything concerning Paul's Gospel success, including his instructions that those Jews should abandon the Mosaic Law, as evidenced by their rejoicing. Then, after the party died down, they informed Paul that zealous Jews in Jerusalem weren't too keen on the rumors of what Paul said about the Mosaic Law to those other Jews...so, y'know what was the solution they came up with?

1 Corinthians (KJV)​

9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;​

9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.​

​

See what I did there? I showed you that you keep taking verses which, for the sake of practicality in spreading the Gospel and clarifying truth, maintain the literal outward distinction between Jew and Gentile -- and want to make them refer to a continuation of the old spiritual inward distinction (which vanished at the Cross) so that your Dispensationlist ideas might be established. Not by this passage

​

have you not stated in the past that Christians should be keeping the Law of Moses and the jewish Sabbath??

 

[Phoneman-777]

The text in James 2 literally says they were showing preferential treatment to people with money and giving them a good place to sit while telling the poor people they can stand or sit on the floor.

Having a preference in and of itself isn't creating an idol or coveting someone's possessions. By that line of reasoning if you have any preference or have a job where you seek an income you're violating the the 2nd and 10th.

I just don't buy that.

Anyway, James doesn't even list the 2nd and 10th commandment in James 2 because if it was relevant he would have said so.

Seriously, the royal law is the law of liberty. It just means love your neighbor as yourself.

Anyway, as James 2 says we should speak and act as those who will be judged by the Law of Liberty (royal law) because if we love our neighbor as ourselves we won't be showing favoritism or giving the good seat to rich people and telling poor people to sit on the floor.

God expects us to use our brains, but sadly, too often, Christianity directs the member to check them at the door when they enter.

Good gravy, man, what other purpose is there for casting one's adoration upon a rich man and inviting him up to the best seat? Could it be to extract from him his money and influence? These are the very things the 2nd and 10th Commandments forbid.

I don't care how you slice it: James SPECIFICALLY mentions two of the Ten Commandments in conjunction with the Law of Liberty by which we are going to be judged. My guess is that you don't have any problem being judged by 1-3 or 5-10..because you aren't worshipping Satan or sleeping with the neighbor's wife or lying or coveting. So, no problem with those, right? But, do you work the first six days of the week and rest the seventh?

 

[Guojing]

Yes, the Jerusalem church in Acts 21:20-25 KJV was so put off by Paul's colossal screw up for having told the Jewish believers in Gentyland to abandon the Mosaic Law...that they all "rejoiced", right?

Wrong. They were extremely happy with everything concerning Paul's Gospel success, including his instructions that those Jews should abandon the Mosaic Law, as evidenced by their rejoicing.

Are you reading Acts 21:19-25 literally?

19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

They rejoiced at what God was doing among the Gentiles, and they reaffirmed in Acts 21:25 that Gentiles do not have to follow physical circumcision and the Law of Moses, as determined in Acts 15.

What they were unhappy about is that there are Jews who were listening in to Paul preaching to the Gentiles, Galatians 5:2

Galatians 5:2, KJV: "Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing."

and some of these Jews were also following that same teaching (Acts 21:21), even though Acts 15 only exempted Gentiles, nothing was said by James, about whether Israel also needed to follow the Law, the latter was not even on the agenda.

 

[Phoneman-777]

have you not stated in the past that Christians should be keeping the Law of Moses

Of course not. The Mosaic Law was nailed to the Cross.

and the jewish Sabbath??

There's no such thing as a "Jewish Sabbath".

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for "M-A-N", not "J-E-W".

God created the seventh day and blessed it long before there ever was a Jew - did He ever bless it a second time? Totally unnecessary, because "...for Thou blessest, O Lord, and it shall be blessed forever." 1 Chronicles 17:27 KJV