Biblical Eternal Security vs 'Calvinistic Eternal Security' -by Gregg Jackson

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Jan 31, 2021
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This shall be a statute forever for you
(Leviticus 16:29)
the real question is what did God mean by calling it a statute forever?

Not my question. Not even interested in it.


thanks -- so Paul ((and you)) evidently believe that God supernaturally intervenes in an unbeliever's heart & mind, bringing about belief.
No, I don't believe that. You're just claiming with different words what Jerry has been claiming; that God CAUSES belief.


I categorically reject that. Belief comes from the heart. Not God. Rom 10:9

otherwise there is no point in praying for the lost. praying for the lost 100% implies we expect God to change them, i.e. that coming to faith is not a '
human-will-only' event, but involves the work of God - that salvation is His work, not ours.
:)

God's work is in convicting and the fact that He has shown Himself to everyone through creation and therefore, no one has any excuse for not recognizing Him as Creator and being thankful to Him. Rom 1:21

hypercalvinism asserts that there is no human free will whatsoever, implying that God is the author of sin.
This is exactly what Jerry has been claiming. But he probably wouldn't admit the last part. But that IS the logical conclusion of such a view.

reformed theology, commonly called calvinism when it's being attacked, asserts that man indeed has free will but only uses that will to do evil, owing to the depravity of man brought about by the pervasive infection of sin.
I don't see any material difference. If natural man is unable to believe the gospel, the only way anyone does believe is because God CAUSES them to believe. So please explain how your view and Jerry's view are different.


typically people accuse anyone who believes in a sovereign God of being hypercalvinist.
I absolutely do believe that God is sovereign. I just strongly disagree with Calvinists what that means.


typically people accuse anyone who believes man has free agency and is culpable for their choices of being pelagian.
Oh yeah. Jerry has done that with me. :)

Jerry admits that man is accountable but he still insists it is God who CAUSES belief, since no totally depraved person can believe.

He is quite conflicted.
 
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I was gifted salvation and faith by God's grace when HE chose me, called me, and regenerated me.
And yet, you have no, because you cannot, provide any verses that say what you claim here. So why shoudl anyone believe you?

You had to exercise faith on your own steam to earn salvation.
Exercise? Steam? What in the world are you talking about?

Is thinking that difficult for you? Belief is trust. How difficult is trusting for you?

I don't think you are right with God if you believe you are the one who made the decisive move to believe.
No, I didn't move at all. You have quite the imagination though.

When I heard the gospel at age 7 I believed what I was told. I trusted that Jesus Christ, God's Son, died for my sins and will save me from hell.

Actually, faith is much easier for children than for adults. Jesus made that point clearly:

Matt 18-
2 He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them.
3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

iow, little children will enter the kingdom easier than adults.
 
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By grace alone are we saved.[/quot]
There is no grace in your theory of a theology.

Titus 2:11 says "the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to everyone."

But, in your theory, God has to CAUSE people to believe, since no one would apart from His FORCE. No grace at all.

Salvation and faith are gifts, of which the text of Ephesians 2 clearly supports.
Nope. v.8 does NOT say that faith is a gift.
 
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It is clearly implied in ALL the verses that say salvation is by faith, and there is nothing else mentioned.

It most certainly is not implied anywhere in scripture that we are saved by faith alone, otherwise what is the point in Paul stating we are saved by grace…. through faith?



Again, just needing a scripture that’s by “faith alone” we are saved.


If all you have is your opinion, please don’t bother addressing me with your man,ade theory.



Faith must have grace, as well as obedience from the person who receives faith from God. Without doing the word of faith, it is dead and can not save.





JPT
 
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Faith is a gift from God.


For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, Ephesians 1:8
 
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When I heard the gospel at age 7 I believed what I was told. I trusted that Jesus Christ, God's Son, died for my sins and will save me from hell.
Yes, the word of God cuts into hearts like a two edged sword and paradoxically regenerates lost dead souls, and simultaneously gifts them with salvation repentace and faith. See how powerful the Word of God is, it saved a little sinner like yourself.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
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No it doesn't follow as you claim. God is more powerful than you understand or credit HIM, for HE imparts regeneration, salvation, repentance, and faith all at once.

Follow this: Jesus said repent and believe and you must be born again. Granted, these were said at different places in scripture, but one only has to realize that when you are born again (regenerated) you have been gifted repentance (changed your mind) and you have been gifted belief (given faith), all at the same time. No one born again says "I'll repent later at some other time", or says "I'll come to faith later or some other time." That is foolishness. Regeneration salvation repentance faith all happens at one time.
Umm, you haven't even given one verse in this post.. You forgot Paul's reasoning is out of scripture Acts 17:2. You haven't done. If you ever did it is out of context. Job says: 9: 14 How much less shall I answer him, and choose out my words to reason with him? Well seems you are reasoning against what the scripture says. I found the word to be true than mere opinions of men.
 
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What kind of heart? How can a dead heart have faith?
Do you understand figures of speech or not?

The Bible uses "heart" to refer to the "seat" of man's consciousness. It's where man thinks, emotes, etc.

In regard to one's state, whether unsaved or saved, the word "dead" refers to an unbeliever who is separated from God.

Unfortunately, many people err in equating spiritual death with physical death, as it seems you are doing here.

A spiritually dead heart CAN respond to God's grace, just as Adam and the woman responded to the Lord's grace even though they were spiritually dead.
 
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FreeGrace2 said:
It is clearly implied in ALL the verses that say salvation is by faith, and there is nothing else mentioned.
It most certainly is not implied anywhere in scripture that we are saved by faith alone, otherwise what is the point in Paul stating we are saved by grace…. through faith?
Don't stop there. Read v.9 as well. Paul was very clear about how to be saved. Through faith. He mentioned nothing else. That is my point. And Paul's answer to the jailer's question of what he MUST DO to be saved, Paul said "believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved". Paul mentioned nothing else.

I hope you're getting the point.

Again, just needing a scripture that’s by “faith alone” we are saved.
One doesn't always get what they "need".

Consider all these verses regarding how to be saved and have eternal life:

Salvation:

Mark 16:16 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 10:9, 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Eternal Life:

John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Acts 10:43 "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.

Acts 15:9 and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

Acts 26:18 to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.'

So, go through each verse and count anything OTHER THAN FAITH/BELIEVING that was included in how to be saved and have eternal life.

If all you have is your opinion, please don’t bother addressing me with your man,ade theory.
Scroll eyes upward and go through all the verses. And don't patronize me with your childish snips.

I have given you Scripture. It's up to you, though, to understand it.

Faith must have grace
Titus 2:11 fulfills this. "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to everyone." There is ALWAYS grace involved.

as well as obedience from the person who receives faith from God.
There are no verses that teach that faith is a gift or is given from God.

Without doing the word of faith, it is dead and can not save.
What verse supports your claim here? And, what do you mean by "doing the word of faith"?
 
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Faith is a gift from God.
No, salvation, eternal life and the indwelling Holy Spirit are described as gifts from God.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, Ephesians 1:8
This verse is in ch 2, btw. However, the last phrase, "it is the gift of God" refers back to "you have been saved".

Those who quote v.8 must also include v.9, which is part of the full thought.

v.9 - not of works, lest any man should boast.
 
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Yes, the word of God cuts into hearts like a two edged sword and paradoxically regenerates lost dead souls, and simultaneously gifts them with salvation repentace and faith. See how powerful the Word of God is, it saved a little sinner like yourself.
Full of Calvinist talking points. But you STILL have not provided any verses that support any of those talking points.
 
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The Bible uses "heart" to refer to the "seat" of man's consciousness. It's where man thinks, emotes, etc.

In regard to one's state, whether unsaved or saved, the word "dead" refers to an unbeliever who is separated from God.

A spiritually dead heart CAN respond to God's grace, just as Adam and the woman responded to the Lord's grace even though they were spiritually dead.
Get out. Please. I know what dead in sin means and I know what heart means. Your a prideful little self righteous person. (Forgive me, Lord, for the word I really wanted to write).

Right, spiritually dead, separated from God, which means they need the quickening (you know what that means right?) of the Holy Spirit. That quickening is offered through God's grace. The spiritually dead can respond and those that do respond (the elect) to God's offer of grace are gifted with salvation repentance and faith.
 
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FreeGrace2 said:
Belief is trust. How difficult is trusting for you?
When I was born from above and received the gifts of salvation repentance faith, trusting in Jesus was not hard at all.
You really mean "when God CAUSED you to trust".

But why do you presume that my view includes "exercise" and effort in believing? Seems so many Calvinists make that silly mistake.
 
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FreeGrace2 said:
Belief is trust. How difficult is trusting for you?

You really mean "when God CAUSED you to trust".

But why do you presume that my view includes "exercise" and effort in believing? Seems so many Calvinists make that silly mistake.
God gifted me faith, and trust is faith.
 
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Right, spiritually dead, separated from God, which means they need the quickening (you know what that means right?) of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is received on the basis of believing, per Paul, in Gal 3:2,5. But you are free to believe or opine any way you want.