Who Justifieth the Ungodly

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
...why do you continue to oppose what is written in Scripture?
Because he has fully committed himself to false doctrine, and nothing anyone says or shows from Scripture will make a whit of difference.

We see the same thing in the Gospels. The scribes, Pharisees, Sadducees, and lawyers had all committed themselves totally to false doctrines -- "the traditions of men". So nothing which Christ did or said or quoted from Scripture made any difference to them. They would oppose Christ and oppose truth day and night because they were caught in the snare of the devil. The devil is a Liar and the Father of Lies. And all false teachings are lies from the devil. And Satan hates the fact that Christ died for the sins of the whole world.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,334
557
113
Justification and Sanctification !

Both these Blessings are Joined together, for Justification [before God by the Blood] gives purpose and cause for Sanctification [ A work of the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13]; that is all whom God declares righteous because of the one obedience of Christ for the many Rom 5:19, that is to say by His Death or Blood, they must also be made experientially Righteous by New Birth or Sanctification of the Spirit. All whom Christ's obedience declares righteous Isa 53:11

Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see[a] and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities. ESV

They all must be by the Spirit Sanctified, which Jesus meant by His words here Jn 17:17-20

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

The Spirit's Work of 2 Thess 2:13 is the answer to this request !

18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That request in Vs 17 was not for just the disciples !

Sanctification of the Spirit is based upon what Christ did Vs 19 Sanctified Himself by means of Death !

That Sanctification follows Justification is what Paul also meant here Col 1:12-14

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

In other words, since we have redemption through His Blood, Justification, He makes us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in Light, thats experiential Sanctification by the Spirit ! Justification makes it right for us to be brought into a righteous state !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,334
557
113
The only reason you come to this conclusion is because you continue to rip verses from context.

Romans 4:

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!


.
Non imputation is solely premised on God in Christ. The Father wont charge the elect with their sins since He already charged/imputed them o Christ. The sinner had no active part in that transaction !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,334
557
113
Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.


.
Lets try this again:

If Christ died for a persons sins in 33 ad, put them away then, and that person is born in 1958 a sinner, has those sins he or she begins to commit already put away by Christ back in 33 ad ? Yes or no ?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,334
557
113
Because he has fully committed himself to false doctrine, and nothing anyone says or shows from Scripture will make a whit of difference.

We see the same thing in the Gospels. The scribes, Pharisees, Sadducees, and lawyers had all committed themselves totally to false doctrines -- "the traditions of men". So nothing which Christ did or said or quoted from Scripture made any difference to them. They would oppose Christ and oppose truth day and night because they were caught in the snare of the devil. The devil is a Liar and the Father of Lies. And all false teachings are lies from the devil. And Satan hates the fact that Christ died for the sins of the whole world.
Post 675 Is that false doctrine ? Show me how and why !
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
Satan hates the fact that Christ died for the sins of the whole world.
yep ... too much of God's Word has to be manipulated ... or outright denied ... under whatever brightfame52 is pandering ...


.
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
The Father wont charge the elect with their sins since He already charged/imputed them o Christ. The sinner had no active part in that transaction !
Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.

vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".

.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,334
557
113
keep reading, brightfame52

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word


.
I have already kept reading, many times, so again you ignore scripture truth.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,334
557
113
Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.

vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".

.
Gods not going to chare with sin, or impute sin, on any sinner Christ for, its impossible !
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
I have already kept reading, many times, so again you ignore scripture truth.
it's one thing to read and it's another to understand what God wants understood.

you stated:

"20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That request in Vs 17 was not for just the disciples !"

as if the only valid point of vs 20 is what you claim.

What we do know from Scripture from Genesis to Revelation is clearly spelled out in vs 20:


John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word



.
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
Gods not going to chare with sin, or impute sin, on any sinner Christ for, its impossible !
John 3:

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.



Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die ...

.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,334
557
113
Rom 4:25 and 1 Tim 3:16

Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

1 Tim 3:16

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Christ's Resurrection was an evidence of the vindication of all those He died for, For Paul writes above in 1 Tim 3:16, that He [Christ] was vindicated or justified in the Spirit.

It was for the imputed offences of all that He died for. For when He died, He had been by God's Law and Justice, charged with all the crimes and iniquities of them He died for, The Lord Laid them on Him Isa 53:6

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

And this He had agreed to in the engagements of the Everlasting Covenant, and so He was condemned for them, and because of them, and not for Himself.He was their Head and Surety and Representative, and He suffered the condemnation of death on their account, and when He arose, He was Justified in the Spirit and by the Spirit, Vindicated from all the crimes, sins and offenses charged to Him, placed on His Account n God's lethal Justice,and so all those He died for were also Justified in Him as their Living, Risen Head, for remember He rose as the Shepherd or Head of the Sheep Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

The word shepherd is the greek word poimēn and means:

a herdsman, esp. a shepherd

a) in the parable, he to whose care and control others have committed themselves, and whose precepts they follow

2) metaph.

a) the presiding officer, manager, director, of any assembly: so of Christ the Head of the church

1) of the overseers of the Christian assemblies

2) of kings and princes

Yes, as risen Shepherd, He was the Risen Head of the Church, His Body, so if the Head is Raised in Vindication of the sins of His Body, then the body members are Vindicated as well, or the Sheep !

Hence they were crucified with Him, so they arose with Him, and were Justified together with Him, and so should be the Testimony of His Gospel Rom 4:25.

There is no Preaching the Gospel, The death, burial, and resurrection of Christ without highlighting at some time the Justification of those whose offenses He was delivered because of, for if we shun this, deny this, we become false witnesses of the Gospel. If Christ had not risen, the verdict would have n, those He died for are yet in their sins, and condemned by God for them, His Law and Justice unsatisfied ! 6
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,334
557
113
it's one thing to read and it's another to understand what God wants understood.

you stated:

"20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That request in Vs 17 was not for just the disciples !"

as if the only valid point of vs 20 is what you claim.

What we do know from Scripture from Genesis to Revelation is clearly spelled out in vs 20:


John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word


.
It appears you have read scripture I have presented but either dont believe it or dont understand it.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,334
557
113
John 3:

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.



Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die ...

.
Once again, The Just God is
not going to charge with sin, or impute sin, on any sinner Christ died for, its impossible ! He already charged their sins to Christ and that Justified them. Then He gives them Faith to believe it, its that simple.
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.

vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".

.
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
It appears you have read scripture I have presented but either dont believe it or dont understand it.
I believe Scripture.

What is rejected is your erroneous dogma because it does not align with Scripture.


What we do know from Scripture from Genesis to Revelation is clearly spelled out:


John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word

.
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
Once again, The Just God is
not going to charge with sin, or impute sin, on any sinner Christ died for, its impossible ! He already charged their sins to Christ and that Justified them. Then He gives them Faith to believe it, its that simple.
John 3:

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.



Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die ...

.