Who Justifieth the Ungodly
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Acts 16:
25 And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.
26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.
27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Clearly, according to Scripture, one is saved when he or she believes on the Lord Jesus Christ ... not before.
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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25 And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.
26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.
27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Clearly, according to Scripture, one is saved when he or she believes on the Lord Jesus Christ ... not before.
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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The verse reads as follows:
Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once.
Hebrews 10:10 contrasts the sufficiency of the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ against the insufficiency of the sacrifices under the Old Covenant (see Heb 10:1-4).
You should try reading Scripture ... just as God has laid it out. Your erroneous dogma has robbed you of the fantastic truth revealed in Scripture.
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Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once.
Hebrews 10:10 contrasts the sufficiency of the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ against the insufficiency of the sacrifices under the Old Covenant (see Heb 10:1-4).
You should try reading Scripture ... just as God has laid it out. Your erroneous dogma has robbed you of the fantastic truth revealed in Scripture.
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Its simple, they were sanctified by the death of Christ before they were born. just like Jeremiah Jer 1:5
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
But nevertheless Jeremiah like all of Gods elect along with the non elect, are from the womb sinners, and by nature children of wrath.
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
But nevertheless Jeremiah like all of Gods elect along with the non elect, are from the womb sinners, and by nature children of wrath.
nope ... Paul, when he was speaking to Agrippa, had this to say:
Acts 26:
15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
which negates your faulty premise that mankind is justified before they are born
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Acts 26:
15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
which negates your faulty premise that mankind is justified before they are born
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The justifier of him which believeth in Jesus 2
You see, because of what Jesus Christ has done for those He died for, God is Just in Justifying them from all unrighteousness against His Most Holy Law; For the only thing that makes any of us sinners before God is transgression of the Law. 1 Jn 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Paul writes 1 Cor 15:56
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
In other words, God's right to condemn any for sin, is because His Law is the standard and it is violated by transgression. That word transgress means violate law !
But now, Christ hath dealt with all of our violations of God's Law, so that God sees none against us anymore !
This is solely because of Christ's Satisfaction made to the Father for us ! Now this Satisfaction having been made solely by Christ's Blood, God in Equity and Righteousness and Justice must and does pronounce all for whom Christ died Justified ! They are discharged of any debts whatsoever against God's Law.
Listen, when a Creditor has been paid, He must be true and just to dismiss the the debts of all the debtors that owed Him ! If He does not, then He Himself becomes unjust !
We know that He accepted the payment of all the debts of all those Christ died for, because , He raised Him from the dead ! Rom 4:25
25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences [debts], and was raised again for[because of] our justification [acquittal].
All for whom Christ died and satisfied God's Law in behalf of, whom God declares Righteous because of it, in due time have this Truth revealed to them to believe in the Gospel Rom 1:16-17 and so He is :
The justifier of him which believeth in Jesus ! Their believing in Jesus by the Gospel revelation is evidence that God Justified them based solely upon His Satisfaction provided by His Blood to Him !
You see, because of what Jesus Christ has done for those He died for, God is Just in Justifying them from all unrighteousness against His Most Holy Law; For the only thing that makes any of us sinners before God is transgression of the Law. 1 Jn 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Paul writes 1 Cor 15:56
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
In other words, God's right to condemn any for sin, is because His Law is the standard and it is violated by transgression. That word transgress means violate law !
But now, Christ hath dealt with all of our violations of God's Law, so that God sees none against us anymore !
This is solely because of Christ's Satisfaction made to the Father for us ! Now this Satisfaction having been made solely by Christ's Blood, God in Equity and Righteousness and Justice must and does pronounce all for whom Christ died Justified ! They are discharged of any debts whatsoever against God's Law.
Listen, when a Creditor has been paid, He must be true and just to dismiss the the debts of all the debtors that owed Him ! If He does not, then He Himself becomes unjust !
We know that He accepted the payment of all the debts of all those Christ died for, because , He raised Him from the dead ! Rom 4:25
25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences [debts], and was raised again for[because of] our justification [acquittal].
All for whom Christ died and satisfied God's Law in behalf of, whom God declares Righteous because of it, in due time have this Truth revealed to them to believe in the Gospel Rom 1:16-17 and so He is :
The justifier of him which believeth in Jesus ! Their believing in Jesus by the Gospel revelation is evidence that God Justified them based solely upon His Satisfaction provided by His Blood to Him !
nope ... Paul, when he was speaking to Agrippa, had this to say:
Acts 26:
15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
which negates your faulty premise that mankind is justified before they are born
.
Acts 26:
15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
which negates your faulty premise that mankind is justified before they are born
.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
The Lord Jesus Christ is the propitiation for all mankind:
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
nope ... justification does not occur before faith. Again, your surmisings do not change the fact that God imputes righteousness when a person believes ... it is written ...
Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [Abraham's faith] was counted unto him for righteousness.
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John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
nope ... justification does not occur before faith. Again, your surmisings do not change the fact that God imputes righteousness when a person believes ... it is written ...
Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [Abraham's faith] was counted unto him for righteousness.
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The words "for all" do not appear in the text. The verse reads as follows:
Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once.
Hebrews 10:10 contrasts the sufficiency of the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ against the insufficiency of the sacrifices under the Old Covenant (see Heb 10:1-4).
.
Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once.
Hebrews 10:10 contrasts the sufficiency of the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ against the insufficiency of the sacrifices under the Old Covenant (see Heb 10:1-4).
.
I'd agree with most of what you say, but the context of Romans 5 doesn't allow for the pre conversion view. (IMO)
Romans 8:33-Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. It's true that God chose the elect before the beginning of time, but the context of Romans 4 says that God justified (credited as righteous) Abraham WHEN he believed. It doesn't say that God justified Abraham and Abraham became aware of his justification when he believed. Likewise,
Romans 4:5-However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
It says to those that trust God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. They have to trust Him. Pre-conversion, they did not trust God, so I'd have to hold they were not justified. The secret things of God are just that, secret. If, in fact, we were justified prior to conversion, that would be a secret thing of God, not something which you can say scripture states plainly.
Edited to add- I really didn't read your reply that well, and upon being a little convicted of that, went back and read a bit more, and realized that you quoted Ephesians 2:3. It's going to be really tough to convince me that we were children of wrath (under God's wrath) and justified. I find that to be a fundamental contradiction of terms.
Romans 8:33-Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. It's true that God chose the elect before the beginning of time, but the context of Romans 4 says that God justified (credited as righteous) Abraham WHEN he believed. It doesn't say that God justified Abraham and Abraham became aware of his justification when he believed. Likewise,
Romans 4:5-However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
It says to those that trust God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. They have to trust Him. Pre-conversion, they did not trust God, so I'd have to hold they were not justified. The secret things of God are just that, secret. If, in fact, we were justified prior to conversion, that would be a secret thing of God, not something which you can say scripture states plainly.
Edited to add- I really didn't read your reply that well, and upon being a little convicted of that, went back and read a bit more, and realized that you quoted Ephesians 2:3. It's going to be really tough to convince me that we were children of wrath (under God's wrath) and justified. I find that to be a fundamental contradiction of terms.
actually, I do understand your dogma. Wherever your understanding conflicts with Scripture, you are to let go of that which is not in alignment with God's Word and hold to what God says. You do not do that. Instead, you manipulate Scripture to align with your dogma ...
an example is when God tells us that the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world (John 1:29, John 3:16-17) and that the Lord Jesus Christ is the propitiation for our sins (sins of the believer), and also for the sins of the whole world (all non-believers) (1 John 2:2).
You have to change what is written in Scripture from the whole world to "all for whom Christ died" in order to avoid the plain reading of Scripture.
Another example is when you claim that faith is works on the part of the believer when Scripture tells us in Romans 4:1-5 that faith is not works.
... just a couple of examples
That is a Scripturally unsound approach to the study of God's Word.
Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
an example is when God tells us that the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world (John 1:29, John 3:16-17) and that the Lord Jesus Christ is the propitiation for our sins (sins of the believer), and also for the sins of the whole world (all non-believers) (1 John 2:2).
You have to change what is written in Scripture from the whole world to "all for whom Christ died" in order to avoid the plain reading of Scripture.
Another example is when you claim that faith is works on the part of the believer when Scripture tells us in Romans 4:1-5 that faith is not works.
... just a couple of examples
That is a Scripturally unsound approach to the study of God's Word.
Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
Y
I'll try to be kind and not slanderous here, but I don't get the impression you're overly open to hearing another view. The impression when I read the 3rd last sentence is that you're stating that anyone who teaches justification upon faith is a false teacher. (heritic)That's pretty harsh language.
I also get the impression that you're essentially declaring anyone who believes that "Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness (justification)" to mean that Abraham believed God, and was then justified by God, a heritic.
I'd really suggest you check out 1 Timothy 6:4 and check yourself in the light of this verse.
I'll try to be kind and not slanderous here, but I don't get the impression you're overly open to hearing another view. The impression when I read the 3rd last sentence is that you're stating that anyone who teaches justification upon faith is a false teacher. (heritic)That's pretty harsh language.
I also get the impression that you're essentially declaring anyone who believes that "Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness (justification)" to mean that Abraham believed God, and was then justified by God, a heritic.
I'd really suggest you check out 1 Timothy 6:4 and check yourself in the light of this verse.
Justified before God, by His Death !
All for whom Christ died are by that Justified before God, by His Death, and this is so because all for whom He died hath been reconciled to God by His Death Rom 5:10, and that while they themselves are yet being enemies Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Now notice this Truth:
when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son
Paul saying of believers, that when they were enemies /unbelievers. In fact the word enemies means [echthros]:
A.used of men as at enmity with God by their sin
i.
opposing (God) in the mind
Now He is saying, while believers were unbelievers and in their minds opposing God, at enmity with Him, that while they were in that state by nature as others, that nevertheless they were reconciled to God by the death of His Son.
Reconciled here means :
A.
to reconcile (those who are at variance)
B.
return to favour with, be reconciled to one
C.
to receive one into favour
This means that they are in a state of having been approved of God !. This is true of them even though in reality they are opposing Him in their mind by their sin of unbelief !
Now for this to be so,it means that the Merits of Christ's Death have been applied Legally to them. That means its recognized by God's Law to be so !
This is True and based upon the Redemption in His Blood or by His Death Rom 3:24
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
The redemption is the :
I.a releasing effected by payment of ransom
A.
Redemption, deliverance
B.
Liberation procured by the payment of a ransom
The releasing means:
act of absolving; a freeing from blame or guilt; release from consequences, obligations, or penalties.
It means total forgiveness of all sins, not liable to any punishment or consequences of sins, and made Just before God as though never sinned in Adam or in themselves !
And so Reconciliation to God is not possible without redemption here described. So those for whom Christ died for, just as they are reconciled to God while enemies by His Death / Blood, SO LIKEWISE the same ones are Justified and free from all guilt of sin, and consequences of sin, while Enemies, by the Death of His Son, and since this is True of them as Enemies then it is as they are Unbelievers !
This is a Gospel of Kingdom Truth ! 8
All for whom Christ died are by that Justified before God, by His Death, and this is so because all for whom He died hath been reconciled to God by His Death Rom 5:10, and that while they themselves are yet being enemies Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Now notice this Truth:
when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son
Paul saying of believers, that when they were enemies /unbelievers. In fact the word enemies means [echthros]:
A.used of men as at enmity with God by their sin
i.
opposing (God) in the mind
Now He is saying, while believers were unbelievers and in their minds opposing God, at enmity with Him, that while they were in that state by nature as others, that nevertheless they were reconciled to God by the death of His Son.
Reconciled here means :
A.
to reconcile (those who are at variance)
B.
return to favour with, be reconciled to one
C.
to receive one into favour
This means that they are in a state of having been approved of God !. This is true of them even though in reality they are opposing Him in their mind by their sin of unbelief !
Now for this to be so,it means that the Merits of Christ's Death have been applied Legally to them. That means its recognized by God's Law to be so !
This is True and based upon the Redemption in His Blood or by His Death Rom 3:24
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
The redemption is the :
I.a releasing effected by payment of ransom
A.
Redemption, deliverance
B.
Liberation procured by the payment of a ransom
The releasing means:
act of absolving; a freeing from blame or guilt; release from consequences, obligations, or penalties.
It means total forgiveness of all sins, not liable to any punishment or consequences of sins, and made Just before God as though never sinned in Adam or in themselves !
And so Reconciliation to God is not possible without redemption here described. So those for whom Christ died for, just as they are reconciled to God while enemies by His Death / Blood, SO LIKEWISE the same ones are Justified and free from all guilt of sin, and consequences of sin, while Enemies, by the Death of His Son, and since this is True of them as Enemies then it is as they are Unbelievers !
This is a Gospel of Kingdom Truth ! 8