Is the first resurrection divided into two groups?
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2 Cor 11:2 is not the only reference made regarding believers being the bride of Christ
and partaking of the wedding supper, though. 2 Cor 11:2~ being presented "as" something
does not mean we literally are that something, especially when we have been made clean
and purified through the washing of the Word. As well as the fact that Rev is highly symbolic.
Aren't the 144,000 from the 12 tribes? Just my thoughts. Any ways, it's late. Good night
and partaking of the wedding supper, though. 2 Cor 11:2~ being presented "as" something
does not mean we literally are that something, especially when we have been made clean
and purified through the washing of the Word. As well as the fact that Rev is highly symbolic.
Aren't the 144,000 from the 12 tribes? Just my thoughts. Any ways, it's late. Good night
The verses I’m specifically interested in are Revelation 20:4-6 where the only resurrected mentioned is the first resurrection.
I am not unteachable. I see a lot of people are trying to get me to see this from the perspective you’re claiming is accurate. Please expand on your thought process and help me connect the dots because I just don’t see it.
I am not unteachable. I see a lot of people are trying to get me to see this from the perspective you’re claiming is accurate. Please expand on your thought process and help me connect the dots because I just don’t see it.
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Isn't the wedding scheduled at the very end? Which means the entire church age is the period of engagement - or betrothal. The marriage is not consummated yet. I've learned it from pastor Brandon that God USES the gentile church to bring Israel back to him - the Messianic movement started with the Jesus movement in the 60s. The gospel started from the Jews, halted in western Europe, traveled around the world, and eventually will end with the Jews, it's a full circle. And sadly, while many Jews, Chinese even muslims are confessing Jesus as Messiah, gentiles in North America and Western Europe are falling away, since Obama it's gotten more godless than every before.
Revelation 19:6-8 And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, “Alleluia! For the Lord God Omnipotent reigns! 7Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” 8And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
Why here at this point is this declaration made? Because chapter 20 is next
Why here at this point is this declaration made? Because chapter 20 is next
Rev. 20:5 says the rest of the dead, which are the unbelievers, did not live again - UNTIL the thousand years were finished. Obviously that means they're not done yet. That is confirmed in the white throne judgement - "And I see the DEAD, small and great, standing before God" to be judged according to their works. (Rev. 20:12). If their names are not found on the Book of Life. they're cast into the Lake of Fire and tormented forever along with Death and Hades. That's the SECOND DEATH (Rev. 20:14-15).
This aspect of after was explained by Paul long before Revelation. In 1 Cor. 15:26 it says "the last enemy that will be destroyed is death", that's precisely revealed in Rev. 20:14. If Death was destroyed, then nobody could still be dead, not even the unbelievers, even just for a brief period to receive their verdict from God. It's also told in Acts 24:15 - "And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust."
This aspect of after was explained by Paul long before Revelation. In 1 Cor. 15:26 it says "the last enemy that will be destroyed is death", that's precisely revealed in Rev. 20:14. If Death was destroyed, then nobody could still be dead, not even the unbelievers, even just for a brief period to receive their verdict from God. It's also told in Acts 24:15 - "And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust."
Thanks for sharing, but that doesn’t make sense. Let me explain.
You’re saying the rest of the dead are unbelievers being resurrected after the 1,000 year millennial kingdom.
Revelation 20:5
5The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection.
However, the unbelievers you’re speaking of are alive and well on Earth and are preparing to go to war against the saints from “the four corners of the earth” and their numbers are like the sands of the seashore.
Revelation 20:7-8
7When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison, 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to assemble them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the seashore.
The great white throne judgement is after a period of time where Satan is released from prison, an army is assembled, and they attack the camp of the saints. This will not happen overnight. The logistics to mobilize a global army will take years of preparation.
Revelation 20:11-12
11Then I saw a great white throne and the One seated on it. Earth and heaven fled from His presence, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne.
The GWTJ is where the wicked are being judged and if Revelation 20 is chronological, which I believe it is, then the dead being judge by God, in preparation for the lake of fire are those in the second resurrection.
The GWTJ doesn’t occur immediately after the 1,000 year reign of Christ, it happens after the war of Gog and Magog which lasts for an unspecified period of time.
Logically, the only possible way I see is that those resurrected after the 1,000 years are also saints who didn’t get resurrected because they were not beheaded for their testimony of Christ. They reign with Christ without a resurrected body then get their body after 1,000 years.
You’re saying the rest of the dead are unbelievers being resurrected after the 1,000 year millennial kingdom.
Revelation 20:5
5The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection.
However, the unbelievers you’re speaking of are alive and well on Earth and are preparing to go to war against the saints from “the four corners of the earth” and their numbers are like the sands of the seashore.
Revelation 20:7-8
7When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison, 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to assemble them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the seashore.
The great white throne judgement is after a period of time where Satan is released from prison, an army is assembled, and they attack the camp of the saints. This will not happen overnight. The logistics to mobilize a global army will take years of preparation.
Revelation 20:11-12
11Then I saw a great white throne and the One seated on it. Earth and heaven fled from His presence, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne.
The GWTJ is where the wicked are being judged and if Revelation 20 is chronological, which I believe it is, then the dead being judge by God, in preparation for the lake of fire are those in the second resurrection.
The GWTJ doesn’t occur immediately after the 1,000 year reign of Christ, it happens after the war of Gog and Magog which lasts for an unspecified period of time.
Logically, the only possible way I see is that those resurrected after the 1,000 years are also saints who didn’t get resurrected because they were not beheaded for their testimony of Christ. They reign with Christ without a resurrected body then get their body after 1,000 years.
Me either everyone always sees hem as literal.
In Revelation Revelation 13:15 for instance those who are killed because they will not worship the image is it that they are literally killed or spiritually,symbolically ect.? First there are the ones who are deceived and worship the image these I see as spiritually dead. Then there are those who refuse to worship the image and are not spiritually dead(deceived) but instead are killed by the beast. Those who are killed then and not being spiritually dead leaves only an literal death in being killed. https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/13-15.htm
Again in Revelation 19:21 there are those who did worship the image,received the mark/name ect. and they are killed. Now then if they are already spiritually dead in that they were deceived and worshiped the image and received the mark,name ect. then the only other manner of death(killed) would be an literal,physical death. So these are the ones being referred to in both the first and second deaths in Scripture and they both appear to be referencing an literal death and not symbolic in nature. These two Scriptures I see as extremely difficult to explain as not being literal in fulfillment,,are these those spoken of in the first and second resurrections... https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/19-21.htm
Paul wrote three chapters concerning the Jews in Romans, from 9 to 11. That's leveling the playing field, putting Jews and Gentiles on equal footing. The plan is kind of laid out in Romans 11:25-26, that Israel will be saved, but not until the "fullness of the Gentiles has come in," that means the end of the church age. This "time of the Gentiles" didn't start with Jesus's ministry or even His birth, it started with the captivity in Babylon, but it will end at the second coming.
Then they were all the dead unbelievers who come to life and join Satan. No matter how long it takes to defeat the, they're gonna be defeated, and after that, GWTJ awaits. By the way I meant aspect of afterLIFE, sorry for the typo.
Another way to look at it is that Rev. 20-22 is Gen. 1-3 in reverse. Satan is back in bondage, curse is undone, Eden is restored, humanity is in union with God once again, and access to the the tree of life is regained. That's a general pattern of the whole bible called chiastic structure.
Another way to look at it is that Rev. 20-22 is Gen. 1-3 in reverse. Satan is back in bondage, curse is undone, Eden is restored, humanity is in union with God once again, and access to the the tree of life is regained. That's a general pattern of the whole bible called chiastic structure.
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Joseph wasn’t teaching doctrine of the resurrection is the thing Paul is.
what did you think of what Paul says about how one is raised up ? Is he a false witness ? We both agree the dead are raised scripture says plainly there is a natural body and a spiritual body .
consider what he’s saying “ how is one raised from the dead ? With what body do they come ? “
“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? ( the apostle Paul is now going to answer that question for us )
Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: and that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: but God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: it is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.”
1 Corinthians 15:35-38, 40-44 KJV
a physical body is made to live on the physical earth its temporary like the present earth. it begins to die from the moment we are born until it expires . This is why we need to be born of the spirit of Christ and be baptized into his body on earth. That’s our spiritual body being born within.
because the physical natural body made for this life on earth is going to die again like a seed has to die and expire it’s existence and the seed no longer exists it has served its purpose or a plant can never grow from it.
That is the appointment we have with death every man dies a natural death but we also have a spirit that lives.
the spiritual body is made to live in heaven with the lord and later on the new earth.Flesh and blood is created from and made to live on earth in the natural.
a natural body can’t live in a spiritual kingdom. The natural is made for this earth and short life of dying , it gives us time to find the lord and be born of the spirit anew . what is raised is eternal and made to live in Gods presence that spiritual that the lord gives us through the gospel of his eternal kingdom.
Being born of the spirit is the beginning of our new life and forms a spiritual body when we die. Again like a seed does and wheat grows from it. The wheat isn’t the seed but the seed has to forst exist and then be planted and die or the wheat can never be
So is the method and form of the resurrection of the dead.
I would say paul explains this part pretty well
“Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: we are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
2 Corinthians 5:6, 8-10 KJV
we live in a body it’s not who we are we are a spirit inside, like a man in a temple. We are the inner man this body is like a vehicle we travel through this life in.
we’re going to leave this aging and dying body behind and live in the spirit with the lord. Where he is. There’s another realm after this one we pass through the natural with this natural body and enter into the spiritual only after we die.
“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”
Hebrews 9:27 KJV
it’s only when the natural dies that the spiritual will come forth. The seed is never returning though it’s served it’s purpose when it dies.
what did you think of what Paul says about how one is raised up ? Is he a false witness ? We both agree the dead are raised scripture says plainly there is a natural body and a spiritual body .
consider what he’s saying “ how is one raised from the dead ? With what body do they come ? “
“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? ( the apostle Paul is now going to answer that question for us )
Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: and that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: but God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: it is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.”
1 Corinthians 15:35-38, 40-44 KJV
a physical body is made to live on the physical earth its temporary like the present earth. it begins to die from the moment we are born until it expires . This is why we need to be born of the spirit of Christ and be baptized into his body on earth. That’s our spiritual body being born within.
because the physical natural body made for this life on earth is going to die again like a seed has to die and expire it’s existence and the seed no longer exists it has served its purpose or a plant can never grow from it.
That is the appointment we have with death every man dies a natural death but we also have a spirit that lives.
the spiritual body is made to live in heaven with the lord and later on the new earth.Flesh and blood is created from and made to live on earth in the natural.
a natural body can’t live in a spiritual kingdom. The natural is made for this earth and short life of dying , it gives us time to find the lord and be born of the spirit anew . what is raised is eternal and made to live in Gods presence that spiritual that the lord gives us through the gospel of his eternal kingdom.
Being born of the spirit is the beginning of our new life and forms a spiritual body when we die. Again like a seed does and wheat grows from it. The wheat isn’t the seed but the seed has to forst exist and then be planted and die or the wheat can never be
So is the method and form of the resurrection of the dead.
I would say paul explains this part pretty well
“Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: we are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
2 Corinthians 5:6, 8-10 KJV
we live in a body it’s not who we are we are a spirit inside, like a man in a temple. We are the inner man this body is like a vehicle we travel through this life in.
we’re going to leave this aging and dying body behind and live in the spirit with the lord. Where he is. There’s another realm after this one we pass through the natural with this natural body and enter into the spiritual only after we die.
“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”
Hebrews 9:27 KJV
it’s only when the natural dies that the spiritual will come forth. The seed is never returning though it’s served it’s purpose when it dies.
Word. Jesus is the Living Word
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
John 8:31-32 KJV
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
John 8:51
“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”
John 6:45 KJV
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
John 12:48-50 KJV
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63 KJV
“Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.”
John 6:68-69 KJV
“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
John 18:37 KJV
The words he offered us are just as important as the blood he offered for us
“for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
Matthew 26:28 KJV
his blood deals with our sins , but his word is where we find our new life.
one aspect doesn’t cancel out the other if we don’t accept his blood of remission the word couldn’t save us , if we don’t accept the word the blood cannot give us life.
Those two aspects are the new covenant the word of his Testament and the blood of remission. He is all sufficient and all we need to live
Joseph believed in the Resurrection as it was given to him to know this from his Great Grandfather Abraham to his Grandfather Issac to his Father Jacob.
By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, of whom it was said, “In Isaac your seed shall be called,” concluding that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead, from which he also received him in a figurative sense.
By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the departure of the children of Israel, and gave instructions concerning his bones.
By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, of whom it was said, “In Isaac your seed shall be called,” concluding that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead, from which he also received him in a figurative sense.
By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the departure of the children of Israel, and gave instructions concerning his bones.
“And he who is not filled with the Holy Spirit is doomed to be filled with some other spirit from the devil.”
yeah the Holy Ghost is a free gift when we hear and believe the word
“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
…Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
Acts 10:42-44, 46-48 KJV
or on the opposite order either way it’s a freely given gift to believers who hear the word
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
Acts 2:38
so really any believer has received the Holy Ghost it’s a gift given by Jesus to those who hear and believe the gospel.
I think the confusion comes when we think receiving the Holy Ghost means we now don’t need to hear the word and receive the faith of Christ , by which we are saved.
“That's the seeds fell on the wayside and snatched by the birds.”
amen the word of the gospel is what brings the Holy Ghost hearing and believing offers the gift freely to all
“When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.”
Matthew 13:19
it’s the beginning for us and not the end
yeah the Holy Ghost is a free gift when we hear and believe the word
“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
…Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
Acts 10:42-44, 46-48 KJV
or on the opposite order either way it’s a freely given gift to believers who hear the word
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
Acts 2:38
so really any believer has received the Holy Ghost it’s a gift given by Jesus to those who hear and believe the gospel.
I think the confusion comes when we think receiving the Holy Ghost means we now don’t need to hear the word and receive the faith of Christ , by which we are saved.
“That's the seeds fell on the wayside and snatched by the birds.”
amen the word of the gospel is what brings the Holy Ghost hearing and believing offers the gift freely to all
“When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.”
Matthew 13:19
it’s the beginning for us and not the end
“Joseph believed in the Resurrection as it was given to him to know this from his Great Grandfather Abraham to his Grandfather Issac to his Father Jacob.”
yeah he may have believed in a resurrection but Paul is the one teaching the doctrine. The ot folks didn’t have the revelation given by Christ to his apostles and none of them ever taught the doctrine and understanding of it.
there’s no reason to reject what Paul is plainly saying there brother based in Joseph wanting his bones to travel with Israel. Paul is explaining the workings of it “ how is one raised up ? With what body do they come come ?
Paul answers that part ot doesn’t change anything because Joseph believes in a resurrection. The apostles had the revelation of Christ whomis the resurrection and life the ot folks didn’t have the same knowledge.
but anyways , there’s no false witness in acceptIng what Paul taught rather plainly about the manner of the resurrection.
“Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.”
2 Corinthians 3:12-14 KJV
the understanding is found in the New Testament , the veiled fore patterns in the old.
God bless brother I’m not a false witness 😇 I just believe what Paul readily and plainly explained about the resurrection
yeah he may have believed in a resurrection but Paul is the one teaching the doctrine. The ot folks didn’t have the revelation given by Christ to his apostles and none of them ever taught the doctrine and understanding of it.
there’s no reason to reject what Paul is plainly saying there brother based in Joseph wanting his bones to travel with Israel. Paul is explaining the workings of it “ how is one raised up ? With what body do they come come ?
Paul answers that part ot doesn’t change anything because Joseph believes in a resurrection. The apostles had the revelation of Christ whomis the resurrection and life the ot folks didn’t have the same knowledge.
but anyways , there’s no false witness in acceptIng what Paul taught rather plainly about the manner of the resurrection.
“Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.”
2 Corinthians 3:12-14 KJV
the understanding is found in the New Testament , the veiled fore patterns in the old.
God bless brother I’m not a false witness 😇 I just believe what Paul readily and plainly explained about the resurrection
Brother, you and i both know 1 Cor ch15 - we both embrace it completely and fully.
This is a very simple matter: The LORD will transform our earthly bodies into Immortal Bodies = in His Image at His Coming = the RESURRECTION of the Dead in HIM = 1 Thess 4:13-18 = Isa 26:19 = 1 Cor ch15 = 1 John 3:1-3 = Heb 9:28
Not one of the Dead Saints in Christ will put on their Immortal Body until the Graves open up and their dead bodies RISE.
This is a very simple matter: The LORD will transform our earthly bodies into Immortal Bodies = in His Image at His Coming = the RESURRECTION of the Dead in HIM = 1 Thess 4:13-18 = Isa 26:19 = 1 Cor ch15 = 1 John 3:1-3 = Heb 9:28
Not one of the Dead Saints in Christ will put on their Immortal Body until the Graves open up and their dead bodies RISE.