Water baptism is necessary to be in the first resurrection

[BeeThePeace]

If you will recall, you objected to my stating salvation is a process. If you would be so kind I would appreciate you sharing your understanding of the scripture below:

"To all God’s holy people in Christ Jesus at Philippi, together with the overseers and deacons," by the Apostle Paul..."

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." (Phil 1:1, 2:12)

I am in no way trying to offend. I share what is in the word because according to Jesus everyone of us will be judged by the word not the watered down message coming from many churches today. (John 12:48)

If you object to my posts you already know what I posted. Repeating myself is folly.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Quoting scripture that clearly expresses itself is not adding to the Word. What Paul stated should be accepted. But since it does not line up with what many churches teach it is rejected. And that is not using wisdom. Because belief and obedience to what is stated in word of God will determine where each of us spends eternity.

"To all God’s holy people in Christ Jesus at Philippi, together with the overseers and deacons," by the Apostle Paul..."
"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." (Phil 1:1, 2:12)

Yes...To work out what God has put in us...And not to be so sure of ourselves thinking we know it all...We , all of us should tremble when speaking God's word , and not teaching that our Salvation can be lost , when the bible clearly teaches that it can not...That is disrespecting the gift from God , our Lord and Savior...Gods promises are true , and He keeps us and is the Anchor of our souls...

 

[BillG]

If you object to my posts you already know what I posted. Repeating myself is folly.

Shake the dust of your feet.

We are dealing with one trick ponies

 

[Pilgrimshope]

By the way, do you notice John's differentiation there? It should settle this whole baptism issue.

John baptized Jews with water. Jews were very familiar with the practice of the Mikvah, the cleansing bath,water.

John washed Jews clean. He said the one that comes after him shall baptize with the holy ghost and with fire.

Jesus was God. We know through the OT passages and those in the new that God is a cleansing fire.

Hebrews 12:29For our God is a consuming fire.

And Jesus, who was also God, the word made flesh, is living water. Therefore, what John was describing as one who is coming is Jesus who will baptize with water and fire. Jesus was God, who is a consuming fire, and living water.

Further, we know Jesus did not Baptize anyone in water.

Yet, John said of Jesus' coming that he would baptize with water and fire.
And he did and does. As the water of life by which we shall never thirst. And as indwelling holy spirit fire, like unto what is recalled of the holy spirit lighting upon those gathered at Pentecost, Shavout. Acts 2.

Matthew 3: 11-12 “As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

If John the baptist is to be believed then what he said of the coming Jesus did not happen as John promised if we insist liquid water Baptism is compulsory to insure our Salvation given Jesus himself never baptized anyone.
https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/The-Water-Of-Life
John 7:38-39
He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’” But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
John 4:14
but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.”
Proverbs 18:4
The words of a man’s mouth are deep waters;
The fountain of wisdom is a bubbling brook.

Psalm 110:7
He will drink from the brook by the wayside;
Therefore He will lift up His head.
Isaiah 12:3
Therefore you will joyously draw water
From the springs of salvation.

Genesis 3:22-24
Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.

Revelation 22:1-2
Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.

Ezekiel 47:9
It will come about that every living creature which swarms in every place where the river goes, will live. And there will be very many fish, for these waters go there and the others become fresh; so everything will live where the river goes.

John 4:13
Jesus answered and said to her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will thirst again;
John 7:38
He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’”

John 7:39
But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

“John baptized Jews with water. Jews were very familiar with the practice of the Mikvah, the cleansing bath,water.”

This is the conversion of the Gentiles

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44-48‬ ‭

peters first thought was they needed to get baptized in water for remission of sins they had received the Holy Ghost like the Jews at pentocost speaking also
In tongues just like what happened to Jews

water is for repentance and remission of sins in Jesus name the Holy Ghost is God sending the spirit into our heart because we hear and believe the gospel. Gentile and Jew were water baptized before Jesus died and after he died for the same purpose

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-6, 11‬ ‭

that isnt talking about receiving the spirit from heaven , it’s talking about being buried with Jesus who died for sin , and raised up again like his resurrection to live a new life through faith. being baptized believing the gospel.

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:9-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[BeeThePeace]

I struggle maybe not the right word but we find in Corinthians Paul talking about works being burned up but escaping through the fire and still being saved.

My understanding is that Paul is talking about what we teach/preach.

Building upon the foundation of Jesus regarding salvation that adds work to faith to be saved.

I never sure to where the line is drawn.
After all one can have straw/Hubble but only because they genuinely wants someone to be saved because they have been taught that themselves.

So not selfish.

We don't labor ,work, to keep what Jesus died to fP

Amen...
I can hear " WOE to those who add to My word "
It is deception , and they do not know they are deceived...
And if they are out to deceive , I would be trembling...
...xox...

Many are out to scripture,They use scripture to befuddle and confuse.
And in large part it can be because of their denominational or church loyalty.

For instance, the udea that the sacraments invluding baptism, are a mandate to secure Salvation wasn't a teaching of Chtist. We know this and especially due to Jesus promise to the thief on the cross .

However, the Roman Catholic church interpolated the conditional salvific dictrine into their teachings because sacraments were a conduit for profit for the church.
Mammon's sin.

Purgatory was another false teaching, money maker as well.

Something to keep in mind when we read doctgines adding to Jesus teachings, contrary to them especially, enter into any discussion.

Jesus saves. Man does not .

 

[FreeGrace2]

Shake the dust of your feet.

We are dealing with one trick ponies

Or less.

 

[BeeThePeace]

Shake the dust of your feet.

We are dealing with one trick ponies

Agreed. An invaulable addition in my view for any Christian, especially new members of our faith , is to read about the history of the Bibles compilation. The timeline of the NT books being added, etc...

Lot's to learn that isnt often taught in church. If ever.

 

[peldom10]

supported.

The thief on the cross is a beautiful example of showing us that God's grace toward the thief worked in his heart , and he believed in our Lord and Savior...God is gracious and merciful , no work added for Salvation , Jesus paid it all...

Can you imagine saying to someone on their deathbed on your loved one " Sorry , do not bother repenting , God will cast you away into hell , because you not been baptized "...That is turning people away from heaven...

The thief on the cross could have been a backslider or Christ extended special dispensation...He can do that as He wishes,,,,the Bible does not tell us. In any event your advocacy is wrong and not bible supported.

Your question applies to repentance also.......why didn't you include that in your non biblical point about baptism?

I can assure you based on God's commandments...Hell has many who were not baptized.

Can you imagine when you are told to not look back and if so you would pay the ultimate physical price?
The pillar of salt is evidence that it happened.
For information that pillar of salt was Lot's wife...who was told not to look back at the burning city called Sodom and Gomorrah. Lot escape punishment because He followed God's commandments and did not look back at the burning city.

Can you imagined amount of water over all the earth of the world ........drowning all except Noah and His family? It is recorded as happened, etc.



Your point is?


The Bible's point is;

Baptism is Required



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).

 

[Wansvic]

If you object to my posts you already know what I posted. Repeating myself is folly.

Your post did not address the scripture referenced. And I wondered how anyone could refute Paul's teaching. Evidently you don't wish to address the actual scripture and of course that is your prerogative.

"To all God’s holy people in Christ Jesus at Philippi, together with the overseers and deacons," by the Apostle Paul..."
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." (Phil 1:1, 2:12)

 

[Wansvic]

We don't labor ,work, to keep what Jesus died to fP
Many are out to scripture,They use scripture to befuddle and confuse.
And in large part it can be because of their denominational or church loyalty.

For instance, the udea that the sacraments invluding baptism, are a mandate to secure Salvation wasn't a teaching of Chtist. We know this and especially due to Jesus promise to the thief on the cross .

However, the Roman Catholic church interpolated the conditional salvific dictrine into their teachings because sacraments were a conduit for profit for the church.
Mammon's sin.

Purgatory was another false teaching, money maker as well.

Something to keep in mind when we read doctgines adding to Jesus teachings, contrary to them especially, enter into any discussion.

Jesus saves. Man does not .

It is written...Mark 16:15-16, Matt. 7-21-24.

 

[Wansvic]

...
If they'd have spent the same amount of time being still to know the voice of indwelling God who opens the way, rather than commit to speaking a false doctrine, they wouldn't find themselves judged wrong after they're dead.

Actually it was Jesus who said those who hear His voice are to open the door:

"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

 

[BeeThePeace]

Actually it was Jesus who said those who hear His voice are to open the door:

"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Actually, Jesus was God.

Therefore,my post was correct.

 

[BeeThePeace]

It is written...Mark 16:15-16, Matt. 7-21-24.

Nonsense. Else the thief is condemned.

Jesus baptized no one.
His teaching, unless one is born of water and the spirit, is not a reference to baptism. Had it been Jesus would have used the word.
908. baptisma ►

Strong's Concordance​

baptisma: (the result of) a dipping or sinking

Original Word: βάπτισμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: baptisma
Phonetic Spelling: (bap'-tis-mah)
Definition: (the result of) a dipping or sinking
Usage: the rite or ceremony of baptism.​

He did use however used the Greek word for water.

https://biblehub.com/greek/5204.htm
5204. hudór ►

Strong's Concordance​

hudór: water

Original Word: ὕδωρ, ὕδατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: hudór
Phonetic Spelling: (hoo'-dore)
Definition: water
Usage: water.​

See the Greek word for water here in John 3.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+3:5&version=MOUNCE

The Life of Jesus in Chronological Order


https://www.bible-researcher.com/endmark.html
Mark 16:9-20 Mark 16:9-20 has been called a later addition to the Gospel of Mark by most New Testament scholars in the past century. The main reason for doubting the authenticity of the ending is that it does not appear in some of the oldest existing witnesses, and it is reported to be absent from many others in ancient times by early writers of the Church. Moreover, the ending has some stylistic features which also suggest that it came from another hand. The Gospel is obviously incomplete without these verses, and so most scholars believe that the final leaf of the original manuscript was lost, and that the ending which appears in English versions today (verses 9-20) was supplied during the second century.
(More)

 

[FreeGrace2]

I can assure you based on God's commandments...Hell has many who were not baptized.

What a reckless comment!! The Bible tells us very clearly who will be condemned (in hell).

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

The sole key for who WILL BE condemned (go to hell) are those who have not believed.

Where do you find any mention of water baptism here? You don't. Your claims are unbiblical.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Actually it was Jesus who said those who hear His voice are to open the door:

"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Good verse; let's examine it.

Rev 3:20 - Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

Many believers have been erroneously taught to believe that this verse is about salvation, and has led to the unbiblical idea of "inviting Christ into your heart". No where in the Bible is salvation presented as inviting Christ into one's heart.

The heart is "desperately wicked", per Isa 64:6. How would inviting Jesus into your sewer result in salvation?

Rather, this verse was written to the church at Laodicea:

14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation.
15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other!

So we see in the CONTEXT that this church was out of fellowship with the Lord.

So v.20 is about HOW TO restore fellowship with the Lord. When Jesus said "I will come in to him and sup with him" He was referring to fellowship. Not salvation. Obviously.

Sad how this verse has been so abused.

 

[peldom10]

What a reckless comment!! The Bible tells us very clearly who will be condemned (in hell).

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

The sole key for who WILL BE condemned (go to hell) are those who have not believed.

Where do you find any mention of water baptism here? You don't. Your claims are unbiblical.

Your unsound Bible doctrine is atrocious.

May God forgive you.

Scripture forbids me from having further dialogue with you. So, i request you do not respond to further of my posts and if you do don't expect any response.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
What a reckless comment!! The Bible tells us very clearly who will be condemned (in hell).

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

The sole key for who WILL BE condemned (go to hell) are those who have not believed.

Where do you find any mention of water baptism here? You don't. Your claims are unbiblical.

Your unsound Bible doctrine is atrocious.

Really? Then please, I beg you, show me my error in my post above. Address each verse and prove they don't refute your comment about condemnation.

If your views are "sound Bible doctrine" and mine are "unsound", then it should be EASY to refute me and show me my errors.

May God forgive you.

This is really pathetic. I've refuted YOU with the Bible. And you come up with this tripe.

Scripture forbids me from having further dialogue with you.

Actually, Scripture refutes you and your notions.

So, i request you do not respond to further of my posts and if you do don't expect any response.

I don't care whether you reply or not. I know WHY you don't, because you CAN'T defend yourself or refute my points.

iow, you DON'T have the truth. Those who have the truth can EASILY refute false teachings.

But you can bet that I WILL continue to respond to your posts, for the benefit of those who only read the threads, but never post.

I will defend the truth against your unbiblical ideas, which are .

 

[DavidTree]

Yes...To work out what God has put in us...And not to be so sure of ourselves thinking we know it all...We , all of us should tremble when speaking God's word , and not teaching that our Salvation can be lost , when the bible clearly teaches that it can not...That is disrespecting the gift from God , our Lord and Savior...Gods promises are true , and He keeps us and is the Anchor of our souls...

"And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. I and My Father are one.”

 

[DavidTree]

FreeGrace2 said:
What a reckless comment!! The Bible tells us very clearly who will be condemned (in hell).

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

The sole key for who WILL BE condemned (go to hell) are those who have not believed.

Where do you find any mention of water baptism here? You don't. Your claims are unbiblical.

Really? Then please, I beg you, show me my error in my post above. Address each verse and prove they don't refute your comment about condemnation.

If your views are "sound Bible doctrine" and mine are "unsound", then it should be EASY to refute me and show me my errors.


This is really pathetic. I've refuted YOU with the Bible. And you come up with this tripe.


Actually, Scripture refutes you and your notions.


I don't care whether you reply or not. I know WHY you don't, because you CAN'T defend yourself or refute my points.

iow, you DON'T have the truth. Those who have the truth can EASILY refute false teachings.

But you can bet that I WILL continue to respond to your posts, for the benefit of those who only read the threads, but never post.

I will defend the truth against your unbiblical ideas, which are .

I'm not laughing at your post but with it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
What a reckless comment!! The Bible tells us very clearly who will be condemned (in hell).

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

The sole key for who WILL BE condemned (go to hell) are those who have not believed.

Where do you find any mention of water baptism here? You don't. Your claims are unbiblical.

Really? Then please, I beg you, show me my error in my post above. Address each verse and prove they don't refute your comment about condemnation.

If your views are "sound Bible doctrine" and mine are "unsound", then it should be EASY to refute me and show me my errors.

This is really pathetic. I've refuted YOU with the Bible. And you come up with this tripe.

Actually, Scripture refutes you and your notions.

I don't care whether you reply or not. I know WHY you don't, because you CAN'T defend yourself or refute my points.

iow, you DON'T have the truth. Those who have the truth can EASILY refute false teachings.

But you can bet that I WILL continue to respond to your posts, for the benefit of those who only read the threads, but never post.

I will defend the truth against your unbiblical ideas, which are .

I'm not laughing at your post but with it.