Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?

[Everlasting-Grace]

Stop game playing...what did Christ say to John?

John 3:
10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man [b]who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 4:
13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”

John 5: 24
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

John 6:
35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.” (the cross)

57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.

We have read john, Why don't you?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

........................................................................................


If a person makes such statements, they need to prove what they say. I have not personally noticed one person in this thread doing what peldom claims. Prove who said what you claim peldom.

They will not be able to show such a post, because they do not exist.

It is evidence of their lack of discernment.

And since they (and some of their ilk) cannot tell the difference, claiming people saying water baptism is not a requirement for salvation, confusing it with and erroneously assuming and further falsely accusing us of being anti baptism, it is hard to trust that they have any real comprehension of Scripture at all, when such a simple matter eludes their understanding completely.

He cannot.

Its no different, than those who are pro works for salvation saying grace believers are against works. because we reject a works centered gospel..

When you resort to placing your faith in something that is not true. Your forced to attack with false truths to get the focus of you and what you believe. and in this way, your not forced to look at the truth..

the pharisees were masters at this. as we see. modern day pharisee types are no different..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You mean a post where someone was saying I had misrepresented someone’s stance about water baptism? It doesn’t exist, but two people proceeded to call me a liar repeatedly over the course of several pages anyway. I assure you those posts slandering me will never go away, but who cares.

You mean like this post. where you slandered people who do not agree with you??

I think we should study a bit into the why people think they can disregard water baptism. This may have something to do with foundational teachings.

Is everyone believing that the example of the church in the New Testament is the most accurate example of what a church should be? If yes then they clearly taught water baptism was a requirement.

Yeah, You still have not confessed that sin, or povided posts where people have actually done it.. So it would help if you would answer our sisters question and provide posts where people disregard or do not believe one should be baptised.

 

[Polar]

Its no different, than those who are pro works for salvation saying grace believers are against works. because we reject a works centered gospel..

When you resort to placing your faith in something that is not true. Your forced to attack with false truths to get the focus of you and what you believe. and in this way, your not forced to look at the truth..

the pharisees were masters at this. as we see. modern day pharisee types are no different..

Good point there (highlighted). You see that in all groups that have taken a detour from truth.

 

[Polar]

Yeah, You still have not confessed that sin, or povided posts where people have actually done it.. So it would help if you would answer our sisters question and provide posts where people disregard or do not believe one should be baptised.

They cannot prove water washes away sin either.

 

[Polar]

They will not be able to show such a post, because they do not exist.

It is evidence of their lack of discernment.

And since they (and some of their ilk) cannot tell the difference, claiming people saying water baptism is not a requirement for salvation, confusing it with and erroneously assuming and further falsely accusing us of being anti baptism, it is hard to trust that they have any real comprehension of Scripture at all, when such a simple matter eludes their understanding completely.

He cannot.

Right. Instead we get 'how dare you' and all kinds of indignant responses. But as you say, they cannot back up their accusations.

 

[peldom10]

Right. Instead we get 'how dare you' and all kinds of indignant responses. But as you say, they cannot back up their accusations.

A typical attempt at transference.

 

[peldom10]

Right. Instead we get 'how dare you' and all kinds of indignant responses. But as you say, they cannot back up their accusations.

God's word speaks for itself;

Baptism is Required



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

Acts 19:4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.”

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).

 

[Webers.Home]

.
1» Does it matter who performs the baptism?

2» Does it matter where, e.g. bathtub, swimming pool, lake, river, ocean?

3» Does the water quality matter, i.e. natural water vs treated water?
_

 

[Runningman]

They will not be able to show such a post, because they do not exist.

It is evidence of their lack of discernment.

And since they (and some of their ilk) cannot tell the difference, claiming people saying water baptism is not a requirement for salvation, confusing it with and erroneously assuming and further falsely accusing us of being anti baptism, it is hard to trust that they have any real comprehension of Scripture at all, when such a simple matter eludes their understanding completely.

He cannot.

You’re not anti-water baptism but you and your ilk sure do spend a lot of energy arguing against it. I wonder why. 🤔

Though no one directly accused anyone of anything as far as I can tell, your poorly disguised attempt to gaslight others is duly noted.

 

[Runningman]

.
1» Does it matter who performs the baptism?

2» Does it matter where, e.g. bathtub, swimming pool, lake, river, ocean?

3» Does the water quality matter, i.e. natural water vs treated water?
_

I think it matters who is doing the baptizing and I base that off of this;

Matthew 28:19
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

In the name of means by the authority of. So the person doing the water baptizing should, at minimum, be a genuine believer. In other words, since you are a genuine believer in Jesus you can do baptisms too. Actually, I plan to water baptize someone this weekend.

The other points I don’t see as very important. I can see how someone might argue that it matters, but as long as there is enough water for full immersion I think that’s the key.

 

[Wansvic]

I believe eternal life is given to disembodied souls. Consider 1 Corinthians 15:29 where people were attempting to get water baptized on behalf of dead people who, presumably, never got water baptized.

1 Cor. 15:29
29If these things are not so, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?

To me this reads like rhetorical questions. We know the answer is people will be resurrected. Thus the reason for the resurrection is the water baptism.

Many scriptures specifically point out that one's personal sin is remitted in obedience to water baptism. Therefore those who die without being obedient to the command have no possibility of entering into the kingdom of God whether with or without a body.
Those who realized Jesus' sacrifice opened the way for individual's to have their sins washed away in obedience to the God-given command of baptism were making an impossible attempt to intervene for their loved ones who had died lost.

 

[Wansvic]

No reward for the twisting of scripture you are responsible for promoting.



You don't believe what God says though. You want to add works to the complete work of God's Son. I think you are possibly trying to convince yourself since you know the rest of us have shown you over and over that you are wrong concerning water regeneration.

No convincing necessary. I fully accept what God said. Jesus made being born again a possibility for all who obey Him. (Heb. 5:9) Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom. (Matt. 16:19) Important to note is multiple keys were given to him and keys open things. Peter initially presented the gospel message first to the Jews, and afterward to the Gentiles. He also assisted in the Samaritans conversion as well. One of the keys Peter presented, opened the way to have one's sin remitted in accordance with Jesus' sacrifice. Peter stated specifically that EVERYONE was to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of their sin.

The necessary spiritual rebirth keyS present in all conversions: (Acts 2, 8, 10, 19)
Belief in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection.
Repentance
Water baptism in the name of Jesus for remission of sins
Receiving the Holy Ghost

 

[Wansvic]

What sin did Jesus commit in order to need 'sin cleansing'?

13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized by him. 14 John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” 15 But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he consented. Matthew 3

His inward righteousness, having never sinned, was illustrated by submitting to water baptism.

It is the same for believers today. We submit to water baptism to identify with Jesus. He is righteous; we are not. We are righteous in Christ...HIS righteousness...and we proclaim our new life IN him through baptism.

It's in the Bible and could not be plainer or even easier to understand.

Consider that the sin of the world was laid upon Jesus while He was on the cross. However, not all people receive what Jesus died to provide.

The exchange between Jesus and John points out being born of water and of Spirit will be necessary for those living after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection.

John knows he needs to be baptized with the Holy Ghost by Jesus. And Jesus specifically states that water baptism is to be done to fulfill all righteousness. The rebirth as stated by Jesus includes both water baptism for remission of sin and receiving the Holy Ghost. This truth is scattered throughout scripture.

 

[Polar]

No one has said we do not have or should not be baptized. It is a lie every single time you say that.

I guess peldom you would prefer we do not notice when you misapply the truth as you do. (in other words lie and continue to lie as is your want.)

It's getting to the point that if one of your x's shows up, we can be almost sure it is attached to the truth in a post.

 

[Polar]

A typical attempt at transference.

Not at all.

God transferred my sin onto His beloved Son. That's the transference that is actually the truth. God is good. ALL the time.

 

[Polar]

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

I pray God grant you the truth, for this is not it.

Why do you make light of what others in Christ consider a sanctified and holy obedience to baptism? We know we are saved when we follow our Lord in baptism. The difference is that he was baptized, not as a sinner as He never sinned, but to fulfill all righteous. We follow Him to signify our death to the life we knew and as we come up out of the water, our new life IN Him.

I was only 5 when I was saved and did not grasp all the significance of the new life I was beginning but there was a difference sure enough. I was a young teen-ager when I felt the urging of the Spirit of God to follow Christ in baptism.

In the church I grew up in, it was the custom to "give" a person being baptized a verse or promise from scripture. I remember mine well.

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Philippians 4:13 And there has been a good amount of those all things.

But you know what is the biggest trial in a Christian's life? Having to deal with those who put forth the notion they are a like minded believer and over time you find out they are anything but. This forum represents both 'kinds' of Christians.

So, what is not the truth? You lying, once again, and stating we think baptism is just a public display. Keep preening those feathers but keep an eye on the sky. Birds of prey circle and then dive from above. No, I don't need to explain that.

 

[Polar]

Consider that the sin of the world was laid upon Jesus while He was on the cross. However, not all people receive what Jesus died to provide.

The exchange between Jesus and John points out being born of water and of Spirit will be necessary for those living after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection.

John knows he needs to be baptized with the Holy Ghost by Jesus. And Jesus specifically states that water baptism is to be done to fulfill all righteousness. The rebirth as stated by Jesus includes both water baptism for remission of sin and receiving the Holy Ghost. This truth is scattered throughout scripture.

There is not one single verse that can substantiate your belief in water generation. Not one. Keep telling yourself that though. You are putting a stumbling block before those who believe in the shed blood of Christ and telling them that is not enough. It is enough. Jesus could not have given more but you brutally assault the truth and add works.

 

[Polar]

Blood is the acceptable sacrifice. Jesus is the Lamb of God. All the angels in heaven bow before Him and worship Him and await the saints in Christ to join them. May God be praised now and through all ages. Amen

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Many church denominations today have different interpretations of what the Bible says concerning baptism. A good number of church officials place a strong emphasis on baptism and how it relates to salvation. Also, because of the many different denominations in this country, we have different ways of being baptized(being dipped, sprinkled, immersion, etc.). The Bible is pretty clear in defining baptism as an act of immersion. Baptize is from a Greek word meaning, "to submerge in water." Also, baptism by immersion easily identifies Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. When we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, Christians are then baptized as a testimony of their faith. While some feel baptism takes on a more important role than faith alone, it is indeed important to the Christian faith but is not dependent upon salvation. Ephesians 2:8, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves". As with every subject matter in scripture, we must take the entire text into account concerning baptism. Salvation is humility, repentance, and the transformation of a new person and not the product of one activity.

Acts 10:44-48 "While Peter spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all of them which heard the word". Receiving the Holy Spirit comes before baptism. Since only a truly saved person can have the Holy Spirit, it would seem that baptism, in this context wasn't needed for the household of Cornelious' to receive the gift of salvation. **Interesting to note that Paul was God's "chosen vessel" to preach the word to the gentiles, but Peter was the first of Jesus' disciples to preach to a gentile family. God chose Peter to bring the Word to Israel at the start of the ministry.

1 Peter 3:21 This is a verse that many turn to who support baptism as necessary for salvation. "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth now save us". If we stopped reading at this point, this would seem a bit confusing. Continuing, "(Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), by the resurrection of Jesus Christ". Clearly, we can see here that baptism cannot wash away the "filth of the flesh" or sin that is in our lives, only Jesus can.

Acts 16:30-34 and Acts 18:8 All who hear and receive the Gospel of Jesus Christ are fit candidates for baptism. Hearing, believing, and being baptized is a consistent pattern for Christians.

Acts 19:1-5 Another passage that can be confusing if we focus on just one single text in the story. This was Paul's third missionary journey in which he meets some men who were "disciples", that is believers but had been baptized under John's baptism. Notice that it is recorded that they were "believers" in Christ. Their salvation was secure, but many interpret this passage as meaning the men were not saved and were the reason why Paul had to baptize them again. This was now the church age in which Jesus left us with a "comforter", that is the Holy Spirit. The men had taken the first step in the repentance of sins, but Christians are baptized for their faith in Jesus. The men were living under the Old Testament covenant. Paul recognizes this, thus he baptized them under the new covenant.

The book of Ephesians chapter two explains salvation by grace through faith very well and never mentions baptism is a means for salvation. The Grace of God is the expression of His love toward the undeserving. Those who deserve the Lake of fire, obtain Heaven. Faith is humanity's response to God's Word and His gift of salvation. Baptism is a "work" and since chapter 2 of Ephesians tells us "not of works", one can conclude that we cannot earn our way to salvation, through baptism or any other kind of "works". When a believer submits for a baptism, they are buried as a dead person, but then raised up new. They are proclaiming their faith in Jesus' death and resurrection as the means by which they are saved from the burning Lake of fire. The unbelievers should not be baptized at all, but the saved ought to be baptized as a matter of obedience(Jesus did it) and testimony. Christian baptism should be a part of their life, but to make it a means of salvation is to muddle the Gospel of Grace.

The only saving that baptism does, is it delivers you from a guilty conscience.