The Plan of salvation.

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Your personal attack only shows that you have a chip on your shoulder. Get rid of it.

You're a bit backward. And no, I don't take commandments from you. Especially you.

 

[oyster67]

By observing Lev 23 feasts---The Holly Convocations,, such Christians recieves the atoning, forgiveness, blessings and the seal of Elohim ,Ezek 20:20. Whoever is of Abraham he/she does the works of Abraham-Gen 26:4,5 and becomes heir of the promise according to Gal 3:29. Blessings

This is Judaism, not Christianity. Jesus filled up all these things at the Cross.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”


Romans 3:24,25
“Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:”
“Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”

 

[oyster67]

Abraham is father of nation --- which nation? Physical and spiritual nation

This true.

all who obeyed/obey the moral law and the Torah.

This is not.

Matthew 22:
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

[Blik]

"The Plan of salvation was instituted immediately after the fall of man." (You stated)

I do not agree with this statement as God clearly states He tells the end from the "beginning" and that, we know took place prior to Genesis 1:1.

Evidence of this will be found in the term "mazzaroth" in Job, which are the constellations and the story of salvation written in the heavens above, prior to the creation of man, Adam.

Job 38:32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?

The nature of the written Word, contained within the Holy Scriptures, in itself, is a miracle, proving that God is outside of our time, has all knowledge of things to come, and is a creation that even computers today cannot replicate in a way other than copying it. Careful study and examining the Bible have proven man alone, could not have created it, and I view it as the one object, most tangible piece of God, we still have in existence today. Do not misconstrue what I am trying to convey. I am in no method nor intent, suggesting worship of a book, but the sincere desire for, and worship of Who, and What, that book truly represents to a fallen world filled with imperfect creatures.

The plan of salvation was simply that God gave blood to pay for our sins so we may be forgiven. It has nothing to do with our way of counting time, it is an eternal truth. Leviticus 17:11 tells us this is so. It is the reason for every scripture verse, it is what God wants for us. This truth is the true nature of all the written word of scripture.

 

[RichGladden]

The plan of salvation was simply that God gave blood to pay for our sins so we may be forgiven. It has nothing to do with our way of counting time, it is an eternal truth. Leviticus 17:11 tells us this is so. It is the reason for every scripture verse, it is what God wants for us. This truth is the true nature of all the written word of scripture.

I believe you misinterpreted my point. It does indeed have to do with our way of counting time as the plan of salvation (as I already stated) was written in the heavens before man was created, and as I pointed out, that was God "being outside our time". Please reread my comment and you will find it there.
Salvation was predetermined prior to the creation of man and proved by the mazzaroth.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

The Plan of salvation was instituted immediately after the fall of man.

Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome to the Chat.

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

GRACE And Peace...

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Salvation was predetermined prior to the creation of man and proved by the mazzaroth.

You mean according to the 'last part' of:

Rev_13:8 "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in The Book of Life of The LAMB Slain from the foundation of the world."?

GRACE And Peace...

 

[RichGladden]

You mean according to the 'last part' of:

Rev_13:8 "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in The Book of Life of The LAMB Slain from the foundation of the world."?

GRACE And Peace...

That is an excellent example, Excellent! Thank you for sharing.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Not exactly. Allow me to make some clarifying comments.

No, there were no 10 commandments for Adam and the woman. There was only one.

Gen 2-
16 And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;
17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”
18 The LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”

There was only 1 tree which Adam was commanded not to eat from. In the original Hebrew, v.17 isn't translated correctly. The last phrase "for when you eat from it you will certainly die" is literally, "for when you eat from it, dying, you wlll dertainly die".

There are 2 deaths mentioned in v.17, which no English translation shows. Many English translations also have "on the DAY that you eat from it". Well, we know that Adam didn't fall to the ground, and neither did Eve when they ate of that tree. So there is more than physical death here. What did die was their human spirit, leaving them unable to have fellowship with God. In John 4:24, that is what Jesus told the Samaritan woman about what is required to worship God: spirit and truth. He was referring to the human spirit, and worshiping according to Scripture, which is TRUTH.

So, in the literal phrase, "dying" is a reference to the process of physical death, which occurs as one ages. And that is when both Adam and the woman began to die physically. But WHEN they ate of the forbidden fruit, their human spirits died.

We also note from v.19 that Adam was alone when God gave him the command to not eat of that tree. So we conclude that when God created the woman for Adam, he was responsible for teaching her what God commanded of him.

Unfortunately, the text shows that she apparently didn't listen very well, since she was so easily deceived by Satan's lie about the tree. And she mentioned "touching" the tree, which wasn't part of the prohibition.


This ignores the fact that God is omniscient. He knows everything. That means before He created Adam and Eve they would sin and need a solution, which IS the gospel promise of salvation. God doesn't have to "seek" for anything. He knows where everything is.


None of these verses clearly states the gospel promise. So consider these verses regarding how to be saved/redeemed.

Salvation:
Mark 16:16 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 10:9, 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Eternal Life:
John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.


None of this will save anyone, either OT or NT. Salvation is by grace through faith, not of works. Eph 2:8,9


This is a misunderstanding of Scripture.

Romans 4 explains in detail how a person "is of Abraham". It is by faith in Christ.

The natural man, before he has been reborn spiritually, cannot believe in the things of the Spirit (1 Cor 2:14). John 3:16 excludes the natural man. It is the "world of believers" which are those who have been reborn spiritually.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

For now, yes. I don't see any point in adding more, as I'm still waiting on an answer to my question from a couple of weeks ago.

Can you refresh my memory as to what question you think that I failed to answer. I always try to give an answer to any question that I am ask, but i might have overlooked it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The natural man, before he has been reborn spiritually, cannot believe in the things of the Spirit (1 Cor 2:14).

I don't disagree. However, 1 Cor 2:14 doesn't apply to the gospel message, since it is merely a TRUST issue. There have been many authors who have written articles on "religion" who accurately described salvation yet didn't believe it. Which proves that unregenerate people CAN and DO understand the gospel message even though not believing it.

John 3:16 excludes the natural man.

This is not true..

It is the "world of believers" which are those who have been reborn spiritually.

No, it is potential believers. That's what Jesus said.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

"shall not perish" and "have eternal life" are in the subjunctive mood. iow, the "whoever" refers to those who hear and believe the gospel. But the subjunctive mood shows potential.

They AREN'T believers until they believe.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

that whoever believes i

Believes is in the present tense, will believe, and has believed, are in the future tense. The actual word in the KJV is "believeth", which is in the present tense.

I refer your attention to these verses also; John 3:36, John 5:24, John 6:35-40, Rom 3:26, and many others.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

They AREN'T believers until they believe

And who is it that can believe in the things of the Spirit? It is not the natural man that has not been born again of the Spirit (1 Cor 2:14). It is those that are his sheep, that have been born again of the Spirit who can understand and believe in spiritual things (John 10:26-29).

 

[FreeGrace2]

Believes is in the present tense, will believe, and has believed, are in the future tense.

You need to review the subjunctive mood.

The actual word in the KJV is "believeth", which is in the present tense.

And your point? The subjunctive mood shows the POTENTIAL for believing.

I refer your attention to these verses also; John 3:36, John 5:24, John 6:35-40, Rom 3:26, and many others.

In Jn 5:24, Jesus was real clear. Believers HAVE (as in POSSES) eternal life. That means WHEN they believe they are given eternal life.

And John 10:28 says recipients of eternal life shall never perish. This promise begins WHEN a person believes on Christ.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
They AREN'T believers until they believe

And who is it that can believe in the things of the Spirit?

I already addressed this. I've seen a number of articles in various magazines written by unbelievers who understood the gospel and expressed it accurately. That proves that 1 Cor 2:14 isn't about the gospel. It IS about advanced doctrines.

It is not the natural man that has not been born again of the Spirit (1 Cor 2:14).[//QUOTE]
Faith precedes regeneration. Always.

English Standard Version
even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— Eph 2:5

The red words refer to regeneration, or being born again. The blue words clarify and explain what is meant by being made alive.

Also, v.5 shows that regeneration and salvation go together. Can't have one without the other.

English Standard Version
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, Eph 2:8

Notice the blue words in v.5 are the same words in v.8. v.8 further clarifies v.5.

And what do we see? Salvation is "through faith". This clearly means that faith must be present in order to be saved.

It is those that are his sheep, that have been born again of the Spirit who can understand and believe in spiritual things (John 10:26-29).

The gospel is a trust issue, not a spiritual issue.

The issue is trusting that God saves those who believe. 1 Cor 1:21 -
English Standard Version
For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.

 

[Dino246]

Can you refresh my memory as to what question you think that I failed to answer. I always try to give an answer to any question that I am ask, but i might have overlooked it.

The Faith OF Christ... - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums Post 79.

 

[pottersclay]

Hey wheres pete?

 

[TMS]

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Obediance can not be taken out of the plan of salvation.
Without being legalistic,
We need to obey and understand that obediance = life.
Jesus obeyed the father and life comes by Christ.
Disobedientance = death

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[FreeGrace2]

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Obediance can not be taken out of the plan of salvation.

Jesus obeyed His Father and went to the cross.

Without being legalistic,
We need to obey and understand that obediance = life.

No, believing in Christ results in eternal life. John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40, 47, 1 John 5:13.

Jesus obeyed the father and life comes by Christ.

Life comes by Christ to all you believe in Him. John 10:28

Disobedientance = death

Which death are you referring to here? Physical death, spiritual death, temporal death?

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

By the time we get to Rev 22, the context is life on the new earth, where ONLY believers are. The tree of life is a reward for faithful believers.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

God gave blood to pay for our sins so we may be forgiven.

Your reference to Lev 17:11, says that Christ's blood made atonement (to cancel, disannul, purge away, forgive). Sounds like his blood as an atonement DID FORGIVE, not, as you stated, "so that we may be forgiven".

That means WHEN they believe they are given eternal life.

You have the cart before the horse. When they (the spiritually dead - 1 Cor 2:14) have been quickened to a new spiritual life (Eph 2:1-5) with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (spiritual faith being a fruit of the HS - Gal 5:22) they, then, have spiritual faith to believe in spiritual things.