1 John

[Deadflesh]

what a wretched misrepresentation of what Doc believes.
and you actually know better.

I do not know better, because this is what DOC has always said.



Now can we PLEASE stick to 1 JOHN please!! I will talk about 1 JOHN, becaseu thats the thread. 1 JOHN.

 

[Deadflesh]

Nice work brother, thankyou

..........

 

[Strangelove]

No, thats not biblicial, thats a teaching of Man. God has forgotten your PAST sins. Cleaned you of them at New-Birth. But if you now, go and sin. THAT sin is NOT forgiven unless YOU ask him. YOU must go to the sacrifice EVERY time you sin. The OT is the picture of what we do in the spirit. YOU MUST go to Jesus so he forgives you, he doesnt unless you ASK, becasue he CLEANED you of sin. the OLD ones dont exist any more, but jsut becasue YOU wanted to give into the flesh, and be rebellious, does NOT mean Jesus gives you a free pass. EVERY time you sin You are OUT of the hedge of protection, its not a Saved-unsaved-saved-unsaved type thing, but you are OUT of the protection of the Blood. The bible says if you walk in the spirit you WILL NOT, WILL NOT give into the lusts of the flesh. That measn if you ARE giving into the lusts of the flesh then you MUST repent and ask GOd for forgiveness.

Where have I ever said I dont ask forgiveness for my sins?

Why the big lecture?

Simply by repenting (recognizing our sins) we are asking forgiveness. It's a completely automatic, natural process. All worked by the Holy Spirit. I barely even need to conciously do it.

Nope, See thats satan wispering in your ear, and also a HORRIBLE teaching of man. If you belong to JESUS you are NOT a sinner, if you call yourself a SINNER, then your saying Jesus died for nothing. Jesus died FOR sinners, to make them HOLY and RIGHTEOUS. if your not getting MORE holy, and MORE righteous, That means YOu are not IN christ, its NOTHING of your own work, so dont even sarcastically ask me what you cna do to be righteous...nothing, the only thign YOU need to do to be righteous, is SUFFER in the flesh. That means, as peter puts it, when temptation to sin comes, you DONT GIVE IN. And instead you PRAY to JESUS to give you grace to not sin, he ALWAYS will. ALWAYS. You must SUFFER n the flesh, which is dying to self, which is carrying the dying of Jesus inside you. You do NOT have your sins forgiven becasue you have faith. Thats not faith in JESUS my friend thats jsut faith in your own belife. Which is idolatry. JESUS makes it clear, the HOLY SPIRIT makes it clear, when you sin you are of satan. God does not automaticaly forgiveyou, you MUST now go to the sacrifce to be cleaned, go in humility and ask Jesus for forgiveness. There is nothing in the scriptures(with out twisting) that says all you have to do is have faith and then God forgives. With out faith NO ONE CAN PLEASE THE LORD, but that is FAITH in HIM. Faith in what he has said, and FAITH that HE can make you holy like he calims, faith that HE can wash you clean like he says. Faith in thefact that GOD provides a way out of EVERY temptation he gives us, and e have not yet resisted temptation to the point of shedding blood.

I dont know what you want me to do. I dont know what 'suffer in the flesh' or 'dying to self' means.

All I know is faith bears natural repentance. Every day.

You accuse me of idolatry. Fine. Heres the other cheek.

We DO have a wonderfull GOD Amen! But HE is a God who HATES sin. This is a God who is comming back for a SPOTLES bride. and im not sure you understadn that its not by OUR POWER or OUR STRENGTH that we cease from sin. its through, and in HIM. It is JESUS, HIS grace, HIS strength, HIS power, Not us. Which meansWE must die to self so HE Can increase. We must decrease so HE can increase. WE must have righteousness that surpasses the pharesses(which means an inner holyness, our hearts must be pure, there hearts condmend them though on the outside they seemd like the most righteous as far as the scriptures said) Now a stumble is somthing YOU and JESUS has to work on. (but there is scriptural evidence that we can, STOP STUMBLING.)

Thats really rich Rob. I dont understand? Me?

In the same paragraph you proclaim it's not our doing and then proceed to tell every one that WE must do this and WE must do that.

You are horribly confused.

And I'll tell you one thing. Your righteousness certainly doesnt exceed that of the pharisees but your PIOUSNESS DOES.

Ugh.....just sickening.

ts sad that mocking is the first thing you turn to instead of trying to understand where people are comming from. Thats not resisting the self. YOur desire is to mock, you give right into it. Thats not buffetign your body, so you can obey the gosepl you preach. IN the gospel, the BIGGEST point is DENY SELF. Jesus said if you DONT deny SELF you CAN NOT< CAN NOT, CAN NOT, CAN NOT Be my disciple. Jesus said that we must COunt the costs. What cost if we truly ARE allowed to keep our life? Waht cost do we have to count, if we can keep on "being a sinner" and stay in the world, givieng in to the lusts of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, when WE(notice we, when SELF) Wants. Self wants to give in when it gets "hard" to resist. But THAT is when we need to be the MOST humble, and sream out and ask Jesus to keep us fro mthe temptation. Tahts wehn WE must go to the Sacrifice, go to the cross, and be humble so HE can lift us up. Jesus said Count the cost, Jesus said Remember lots wife, Jesus said adhere to the end. I know you said a prayer once, But I belive JESUS that its a TOUGH narrow, hard road of Sorrows. and I belive the epistles whe nthey say WE must have JESUS' Sufferings. That was HIS suffering in the flesh, and HIS suffering in the face of scron, mockery and death. And DID NOT SIN in the middle of it. Becasue of Jesus in you, HE gets YOU to a point where you can resist Sin. JEsus said it was a narrow Road. Why narrow, why HARD if its a cake walk where you can kinda do as YOU(self) pleases? and just have faith. Faith in a GOD who said OBEY ME or your not mine? Ok then i can agree that Faith in the GOD who Said OBEY ME or you ar not mine, is agreat thing. Im not sayign you DONT obey him. But dont preach a "Gospel" to others that would have them stumble and sin, becasue stumble comes, but WOE, WOE, WOE to those through WHOM it comes.

I dunno what you want me to do.

Summink about going to the cross? No idea what yer talking about. It just sounds like pious lecturing.

Do you still sin Rob? Or are you perfect like Christ because you DO STUFF?

This is the gospel my freind. The Gosple is NOT easy. Now im not with Cobus on the whole, we will be little glorifed Gods on earth, but ill cover that in a second. But Goodness Gracious Doc, its SO important that we deny self(will, desire, Flesh nature) in every way, and ALWAYS go to the Sacrifice IF, IF, IF, thats what JOHN is saying, he doesnt WANT you to sin(which means HE knows that you have the ablity in Christ Jesus to NOT sin) IF you sin, you have the sacrifice of Jesus to go to. (and repent) So i IS concentrating on preaching the gospel, and the gospel are Jesus died so YOU can be with him, IF you obey him. It was IMPOSSIBLE to obey God before the Blood of Jesus. NOW its EASY if you Die to Self and allow JESUS to be your life. OT=Impossible to please God. NT=Possible for YOU to please God, becasue YOU have the HOL spirit, YOU have CHRIST in you. (not Christ AS you for anyone who belives in a Christ conciousness/we become little christ god-men...NO!!!) But Christ IN you, perfecting your Inner man, as your OUTER man dies. Ceasing from SIN is exactly What Jesus died for. He did not died to save you from HELL(you wont find a single verse that says that) HE died to save you From SIN, and the wrath of GOD. The Wrath of GOD falls on the children of Dissobedeince. (you disobey, you get judgment, which is spiritual attacks) So this thread is about 1 John Care to discuss 1 John?

Forget about sin buddy.

Jesus died to give us ETERNAL LIFE. Thats the inheritance.

You dont understand 1 John because you think cleansing us from all sin means we stop sinning. It doesnt, it means that we are found not guilty of our sins before God. We are as clean as Jesus because we wear HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS instead of our own dirty righteousness which is filthy as rags.

You need to get to grips with that concept Rob. Until then it is YOU who is preaching a fals Gospel.

Its called works righteousness. An ancient error.

 

[Deadflesh]

Where have I ever said I dont ask forgiveness for my sins?

Why the big lecture?

Simply by repenting (recognizing our sins) we are asking forgiveness. It's a completely automatic, natural process. All worked by the Holy Spirit. I barely even need to conciously do it. That is saying that you don't have to ask forgiveness for sins. Its NOT all worked by the holy spirit. its a CONCIOUS deceison that YOU have to make. and to say its not leads people astray. This has been the same thign i have ALWAYS said from the begining. Its not an automatic process that you are barely aware of. if you thin kthat there may be many sins you ACTUALLY are not asking forgiveness for.



I dont know what you want me to do. I dont know what 'suffer in the flesh' or 'dying to self' means.

Read your bible and pray about it. Its ALL over the bible. If you dont know what it means, then that means you dotn do it. Peter says suffering in the flesh is NOT givign into temptation. Read it. I posted it actually in the first post.

All I know is faith bears natural repentance. Every day.

Not true, please show me scriptrue that sasy FAITH bears repentance?
Please show me scripture that says "having faith is all that repenance is"

You accuse me of idolatry. Fine. Heres the other cheek.
Not accuse. Point out. im tellign you thats exactly what it is.

Thats really rich Rob. I dont understand? Me?
Show me you do. Any time we have had this conversation you mock ridicule, and avoid, anythig nthat TRULY has to do with denial of WILL. and then you call others hypocrites. I have had this conversation with you before. and that was months ago, it doesn stil lseem like you understand.

In the same paragraph you proclaim it's not our doing and then proceed to tell every one that WE must do this and WE must do that.

Nope in the same paragraph i say beign sinless is not our doing its JESUS in us. But WE must take a step so that JESUS can work that sinlessness in us(and it IS a process) that is what santification is. And WE can stop the process by not repenting, and askign forgiveness EVERY time. YOu have admitted previously, and still continue to admit you dont ask EVERY time, and you almsot make it seem like its another gospel, one contrary to JESUS to say that one MUST ask for forgiveness everytime. But its truly not. Im not ritign this to attack you, but in love im pleading with you to pray about it, and consider that you may have some thigns a little wrong, when it comes to forgivenss.

You are horribly confused.

Nope.

And I'll tell you one thing. Your righteousness certainly doesnt exceed that of the pharisees but your PIOUSNESS DOES.

Ok.

Ugh.....just sickening.

And yet you avoid the very thign we are actually talking about.


I dunno what you want me to do.

I dont want you to do anything. except see that maybe you are wrong that YOU have nothing to do when it comes to forgiveness.

Summink about going to the cross? No idea what yer talking about. It just sounds like pious lecturing.

Yeah i know.

Do you still sin Rob? Or are you perfect like Christ because you DO STUFF?

I do stumble, sure.(and as i mature in my walk i will stop stumbling to) We are not to live like sin is inevitable, but like sin is the LAST thing we shoudl do. I we feel tempted to even LOOK at somthign i na way that we shouldnt, we MUST resist it. THAT is suffering in the flesh. Im on my WAY to Mortifying the deeds of the flesh. are YOU? its what we MUST do. YOU say there is nothing more you must do. But thats not wha the bible says we MUST Put to death our sin natrue. and what is DEAD doesnt live.



Forget about sin buddy.

Jesus died to give us ETERNAL LIFE. Thats the inheritance.

Its the inherentence WITH stipultations. You must follow Jesus. if you follow him you must DENY SELF. and then you must ADHERE till the END to be saved. have you adhered till the end? SO if you beleive the words of JESUS why do you act like that is not waht we are to follow?

You dont understand 1 John because you think cleansing us from all sin means we stop sinning. It doesnt, it means that we are found not guilty of our sins before God. We are as clean as Jesus because we wear HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS instead of our own dirty righteousness which is filthy as rags.

Nope. YOU are wrong. and i cant stand when people quote isaiah, to justify SELF(besides the fact that you are taking it out of context) as to make an excuse where THERE righteousness is flithy rags. GOD has put works in your life to do, JESUS is suposed to be IN you, so thigns YOU do are NOT flithy rags.
YOu SIN nature, before you were born again were flihty rags NOW we are SUPOSED to be the righteousness of GOD. and we are the righteousness of GOD NOT becasue we say so, but becasue BY OUR WORKS, by our acions we prove that JESUS is in us. We ARENOT as clean as Jesus. No way. JEsus never gave into SIn. if YOU give into sin then YOU are saying JESUS did. Do you see the contradiction? We MUST be pure, holy and righteous, forget the FAKES claiming a false humlity for worldly gain. NO. We MUST be righteouss. its a must. we MSUT obey, and we MUST be clean, holy, and pure. We MUST walk in the spirit


You need to get to grips with that concept Rob. Until then it is YOU who is preaching a fals Gospel.
Nope. its sad that you cant see it. GOD calls us to be STRICTLY, COMPLETLY obedient. if we are NOT, then we do NOT love GOD wit hall our heart, soul, strength and mind, and cant POSSIBLY love the bretheren with that either. if we arent OBEDIENT and PUTTING TO DEATH the deeds of the flesh, then you CANT be loving GOD. IMPOSSIBLE. NOw if YOU are doign that, then GREAT, but if you are doing that, then hy arent you teling the little ones the same thing? We MUST be in the spirit, and its POSSIBLE to be in the spirit at al times. IF(again the word if, means if, if )you DO sin then We GO to Jesus on our knees and ask HIM for forgiveness. we must go to the sacrifice(the cross)


Its called works righteousness. An ancient error.

No you are confused, and you are going by a teachign of MEN. Works of righteousness are Tradtions, we keep. Works of righteousness are thigns we do to SEEM holy. Thigns we do to ATAIN What JESUS died to give us. but now that you HAVE it, there are thigns you must do to ensure you STAY IN IT. THAT IS The Gosepl. JESUS said you WILL be judged by HIS words. and HIS words say deny self. YOu dont knwo that that means? then ASK HIM. HIS words are pcik up your cross, and follow HIM. in HIS suffering. in HIS death. He deid to his desire, adn did ONLY the WILL of GOD. and HE was OUR example.
"For even hereunto were you called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow his steps:" 1 Peter 2:21

WE must follow in JESUS steps and SUFFER, in the flesh. Carnal mind says "i want you to sin" we resit, EVEN to the point of sweating blood. We resist. We MUST its not a matter of maybe, am i saying im perfect in this, no, but i SURE am putting to death the deeds of the flesh. ONLY in the power that CHRIST gave me. Its power to resist Satan.


We cant SEEM holy, we must BE HOLY. and its only possible by Dening SELF totaly. But TRULY puttign to death theflesh, and walkign in the SPIRIT. iff you don understadn how to do it ASK GOD FOR WISDOM ON IT.


But do NOT say its not the gospel, be casue my friend it IS the gospel. We are to be Seperate in word, though and deed from waht the world does. Waht bothers me is that i know you know this, yet you fight me on it anytime i post. Why? if YOU dont want to do so personally thats fine.

But we MUST put to death the deeds of the flesh, which is ONLY possible in walking in the Holy spirit(Galatians 5:16), which is the SAME as Abiding in Christ, whci his the same as Buildign your house on SAND, which is the same as HEARING AND OBEYING JESUS, which IS obeying GOD, which IS LOVE of GOD.

We cant say we LOVE God, adn NOT obey. and OBEDIENCE is to put to death the sin nature.

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as man can bear: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation make also the way of escape, that ye may be able to endure it. 1 Corinthains 10:13

EVERY temptation that coems your way, GOD provides a way of escape(EVERY) so that YOU can ENDURE(suffer in the flesh)

And this IS what John is saying. John is saying that IF you obey the comandments(love God, and love neighbor) then you WILL be putting to death the deeds of the flesh they DO go hand in hand. CANT have one with out the other. if you are NOT putting to death the sins of the flesh, then you CANT be loving GOD with with your entirety, there MUST still be somthing that has your heart.

Im not sayign any of this in an acusive way, or at least not meaning to. but i IS, saying it for your benefit, and in love. I hope what i have written makes sence. Jesus bless you, Doc.

 

[Cobus]

Deadflesh I am busy with my reply and thank you for your efford. Let me explain with scripture why I do not limit God to WHAT HE CAN DO WHEN I LEAVE THIS BODY AND HE FILLS IT...

I will get back to you soon as i finish ok..

 

[Strangelove]

Rob, you still sin. Your not denying self.

What are we gonna do with that?

We have a problem.

Can you start by getting a job? you are a burden on your parents.

 

[Strangelove]

But WE must take a step so that JESUS can work that sinlessness in us

So Jesus needs our permission or compliance to work Holy sanctification in us?

Really?

Why havn't you taken this step yet? You still sin. Everyone you know sins. EVERYONE. Maybe you've got the scriptures wrong Rob.

 

[Strangelove]

That is saying that you don't have to ask forgiveness for sins. Its NOT all worked by the holy spirit. its a CONCIOUS deceison that YOU have to make. and to say its not leads people astray.

Maybe we should go back to following written law Rob?

Waddya think?

As Gos work conforming us to His law written on our hearts is clearly not enough in your opinion?

 

[Strangelove]

Read your bible and pray about it. Its ALL over the bible. If you dont know what it means, then that means you dotn do it. Peter says suffering in the flesh is NOT givign into temptation. Read it. I posted it actually in the first post.

So Peters describing what happens in believers, its not a command to 'suffer in the flesh'.

If this is what you think why do you keep giving in to temptation? Why are you not suffering enough? lolz.

 

[Deadflesh]

Rob, you still sin. Your not denying self.

What are we gonna do with that?

We have a problem.

Can you start by getting a job? you are a burden on your parents.

Jesus bless you Doc.

 

[Strangelove]

Not true, please show me scriptrue that sasy FAITH bears repentance?
Please show me scripture that says "having faith is all that repenance is"

It wasn't a comment about what exact lines there are in scripture.

do you see repentance in your life?

did it come before or after you had faith in Christ?

 

[Strangelove]

Not accuse. Point out. im tellign you thats exactly what it is.

I need to point that pious people placing undue pressure on the flock to improve their WORKS performance for Christ are promoting self-idolatry.

Christians walk unto good works that God ordained for them to walk in. Cant you just leave it at that?

 

[Deadflesh]

I need to point that pious people placing undue pressure on the flock to improve their WORKS performance for Christ are promoting self-idolatry.

Christians walk unto good works that God ordained for them to walk in. Cant you just leave it at that?

Undue pressue on the Flock? GOD EXPECTS 100% OBEDIENCE. Its not undue pressue its te fear of the lord, which is severly lacking in the Church. IF you dont obey, you are IN rebellion to GOD.

Doc, you walk in the works, as you walk in the spirit. if you walk in the spirit, you are putting to death the deeds of the flesh. if you walk in the spirit, you are NOT gratifying flesh(sin)

So if you sin, that measn you are not walkign in the spirit. EVERY time one sins, its should be a warning that we are NOT in the spirit.

and if we are not in the spirit, then we are NOT walking in the good works(nor are we producing fruit, bc, abiding(obeying words of JEsus) is walking in the spirit)

So if YOU(anyone) are sinning, Not asking for forgivenss, not repenting, and then sinning some more, you are NOT bearing fruit, you are NOT walking in the works prepared for you, and ARE in rebellion to GOD. its really that simple. but BECASUE we have JESUS as an advocate we go to HIM and repnt. if we don't, we stay in rebellion to GOD.

 

[Strangelove]

Show me you do. Any time we have had this conversation you mock ridicule, and avoid, anythig nthat TRULY has to do with denial of WILL. and then you call others hypocrites. I have had this conversation with you before. and that was months ago, it doesn stil lseem like you understand.

You want me to deny my will?

Is that my will to sin or my will to repent?

Or shall we just let the Holy Spirit work it out?

 

[Red33]

You dont understand 1 John because you think cleansing us from all sin means we stop sinning. It doesnt, it means that we are found not guilty of our sins before God. We are as clean as Jesus because we wear HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS instead of our own dirty righteousness which is filthy as rags.

The above is the premise for understanding (1Jn). If that is not our premise we will not see the grace of God in the justification that has taken place in our relationship to God and with God. If we sin (third class condition - we may or may not) it does not take away from our standing with God which is through the blood and righteousness of Christ, but it does break our fellowship with God which has to be restored by acknowledging and confessing our sin by faith and letting God restore us through grace. The grace that we receive will teach us to deny ungodliness and worldly lust and to live soberly, righteously and godly in this present word (Titus 2:11,12).

 

[Strangelove]

Undue pressue on the Flock? GOD EXPECTS 100% OBEDIENCE. Its not undue pressue its te fear of the lord, which is severly lacking in the Church. IF you dont obey, you are IN rebellion to GOD.

Doc, you walk in the works, as you walk in the spirit. if you walk in the spirit, you are putting to death the deeds of the flesh. if you walk in the spirit, you are NOT gratifying flesh(sin)

So if you sin, that measn you are not walkign in the spirit. EVERY time one sins, its should be a warning that we are NOT in the spirit.

and if we are not in the spirit, then we are NOT walking in the good works(nor are we producing fruit, bc, abiding(obeying words of JEsus) is walking in the spirit)

So if YOU(anyone) are sinning, Not asking for forgivenss, not repenting, and then sinning some more, you are NOT bearing fruit, you are NOT walking in the works prepared for you, and ARE in rebellion to GOD. its really that simple. but BECASUE we have JESUS as an advocate we go to HIM and repnt. if we don't, we stay in rebellion to GOD.

Then why are you not walking in the spirit?

You sin, so therefore you are preaching this to yourself.

So whats the answer?

Whats the next step? whats next?

Or is the whole point of this just about asking for forgivenes?

I do that Rob....so do all Christians. So are we done here?

 

[Strangelove]

The above is the premise for understanding (1Jn). If that is not our premise we will not see the grace of God in the justification that has taken place in our relationship to God and with God. If we sin (third class condition - we may or may not) it does not take away from our standing with God which is through the blood and righteousness of Christ, but it does break our fellowship with God which has to be restored by acknowledging and confessing our sin by faith and letting God restore us through grace. The grace that we receive will teach us to deny ungodliness and worldly lust and to live soberly, righteously and godly in this present word (Titus 2:11,12).

Thats the Gospel.

Good one Redster.

 

[Consumed]

John 16

8 And when he is come(holy spirit- added in by me), he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; (convicts sinners to repentance)

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; (convicts believers of His righteousness)

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. (judgement for the ungodly, scoffers etc, end game)

the price has been paid for sin, once only sacrifice, santification is the process, sure we stumble along the way but we are encouraged not to give up, no condemnation in Christ, we are hidden in Him, only reason we can stand boldly and not let our hearts condemn us, self condemnation is satans last grab to keep one from running the race.


I'm always open for correction
My 2cents

 

[Deadflesh]

John 16

8 And when he is come(holy spirit- added in by me), he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; (convicts sinners to repentance)

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; (convicts believers of His righteousness)

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. (judgement for the ungodly, scoffers etc, end game)

the price has been paid for sin, once only sacrifice, santification is the process, sure we stumble along the way but we are encouraged not to give up, no condemnation in Christ, we are hidden in Him, only reason we can stand boldly and not let our hearts condemn us, self condemnation is satans last grab to keep one from running the race.


I'm always open for correction
My 2cents

I agree no condmenation IN, IN, IN Christ. WHY does JOHN(as well as others) Warn us to STAY IN HIM. to CONTINUE IN HIM, ABIDE.

"And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming." 1 John 2:28

Meaning if these little chidlren DONT Abide in him, they WONT have confidence when he apears, and WILL be ashamed before him.

 

[zone]

God expects 100% percent obedience.
so, unless my personal righteousness matches that of Jesus Christ (God manifest in the flesh), i'm lost.

and speaking in tongues is necessary also i hear.

so is hearing from God.

and possibly waiting to be emptied and incarnated by God Himself.

~

could someone show me how to get and stay saved please?
this seems rather daunting...

~

God bless you all....Peace and Joy in The Lord! love you everyone!
have a wonderful happy day!

amen and amen.

in meekness and all humility, your friend in Jesus,
zone.