Amillennialism

[jonathanbchristian]

I am a Premillenialist myself. I believe that Revelation should be taken literally, including the Reign of Christ on the Earth. I find that taking the Bible figuratively is simply adding and taking away from the Bible. If God didn't mean it, it wouldn't be in there. I bellieve in a literal Hell and happily a literal Heaven. I believe in a literal New Jerusalem as much as I believe in a literal God.

 

[shroom2]

hi bud
i"m on a wretched laptop with no mouse and can't do much.
i don't have my own files.

if you could see that Jesus fulfilled Daniel 9, and that 27 is speaking of HIM, not antichrist, would you reconsider the futurist view to some degree?

27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

just because this section of the text falls in the order it does in the passage doesn't mean it is NOT about Jesus.

there are two HE's in Daniel 9.

One is Jesus and one is Titus.

In v26, the "the prince that shall come" is the antichrist, not Jesus Christ.

...not quite the same person, zone.

27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

At the beginning of the trib, the antichrist will make a covenant with Israel, but break it halfway through.

this entire section is about Jesus.
He confirmed the Promised New Covenant with many (others rejected it).
New Covenant. the COVENANT. in His Blood.

in the middle of the 70th week He was crucified (cut off, but not for Himself). when He was sacrificed, it put an end to animal sacrifice or any other FOREVER...though the jews continued to sacrifice animals afterwards.

because of the abominations the nation of israel had been committing (The Oral Traditions of the Pharisees), the idolatry and their rejection of Him, He declared Jerusalem would be left desolte, didn't He. we know He did. it is recorded.

before He died He said BEHOLD, YOUR HOUSE IS LEFT DESOLATE.

when He talked to His disciples He told them that Titus would come and tear the entire thing down.
He told the Pharisees they had been judged, and that all the blood and guilt for all the prophets and saints would be on thier account (since they agreed with their forefathers)...and He told them that judgment would come upon them in that very generation that was alive as He spoke.

and it did come....less than 40 years later (40 years is one form of a generation, as is 70)...Titus, the roman prince brought his people and they destroyed Jerusalem in 70AD. razed it.

27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

the consummation means the ACTUAL CARRYING OUT OF THE DECREE...Titus consummated The Lord's decree of DESOLATION....that which He decreed was poured out on the DESOLATE. she was already desolate.

zone

ps: ANYBODY WITH DANIEL 9 FULFILLMENT STUFF PLEASE POST FOR SHROOM...i'm handicapped with this stoopid laptop.

I do not agree with your presentation, but will look into it further.

Storms today, internet cutting in and out. But I'll be baaaaaaack.

 

[Red33]

are you implying that the Holy Spirit is not of ONE mind and heart with JESUS?

1 John 2

1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Yes Jesus is our Mediator, are you trying to imply that the HOLY Spirit would go against Jesus and be His adversary?

why do you want to justify your belief that the Holy Spirit is an adversary to God's people? because you should know that is a LIE. SATAN is the accuser of brethren and HE is the adversary though he likes to dress in robes of an angel of Light. Sometimes he may even claim to BE "god"

If it is NOT a lie show me in SCRIPTURE where the HOLY SPIRIT has EVER been an adversary to God's servants.

Perhaps you need to read the original posts again.

Here is some scripture that can not be broken...

Mt 5:25,26 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

The adversary is the Holy Spirit. Chew on that for awhile and perhaps God will give you some understanding and if not, put yourself under a pastor-teacher that God has called and let him teach you what that means. How many believers have ever thought that the Holy Spirit could be their adversary when they do not agree with what the Spirit reveals to them through the word. That just might translate to other believers who have the Spirit, who also become an adversary not by choice but by conviction.

We as believers are to be led by the Spirit and we are to walk in the way the Spirit leads us through the God's word (Mt 4:4 Gal 5:15-18). When the Holy is grieved in our life (Eph 4:30), it is an indication that we are not agreeing with the words of truth that is brought into our life to convict us in the way we should walk (Ps 143:8, Ps 119:1,105). This is when the Holy Spirit becomes our adversary because the Spirit lusts against the flesh and the flesh against the Spirit. They are not compatible in any way but are CONTRARY (they initiate active opposition to each other - Gal 5:17).

The Spirit is an adversary to the carnal believer, who does not mind the things of the Spirit (Rom 8:4-9, 1Cor 3:1-4). The carnal believer in under the chastisement and discipline of God because they refuse to live according the conviction of the Spirit and will remain in that discipline until that discipline has become enough to get them to humble themselves to receive grace and start to walk by faith in the conviction of the word they have been given through the Spirit.

 

[Red33]

Zone,

Could the second coming or advent of Jesus Christ be today or tomorrow? Is His return to the earth imminent, meaning it could happen at any moment? Surely such a simple question cannot be denied an answer. Do you believe that Zone or do you believe there are others things that must happen before His second coming can take place? I asked you about what you believed to be already fulfilled according to the scriptures in Revelation, but you referred me to another and told me to do my homework.

This thing you have with conspiracies and the Illuminati and the fake rapture that you have boasted of that could happen, is this so that you can justify that there is no real rapture of the church so that Antichrist can have entrance through a delusion and gain prominence in the world among the churched? Is it also for your boasting, that when this fake rapture happens, that you can be prepared to rebuke that spirit of Antichrist and help all the brethren that have fallen away from the faith because the rapture did not happen as they believed or supposed?

IS THIS TOO DIFFICULT FOR YOU TO ANSWER BECAUSE YOU ARE AFRAID THAT SOME OF YOUR FRIENDS MIGHT DISAGREE WITH YOU OR THAT YOU MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO DO IT ON YOUR OWN WITHOUT REFERRING THE ANSWER TO SOME INTERNET WEBSITE? PERHAPS YOU FEAR THAT IF YOU ANSWERED YOU MIGHT DISOBEY SOME INSTRUCTIONS THAT WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN IN THE SCRIPTURES. WHERE IS YOUR HOMEWORK AND EXTENSIVE KNOWLEDGE ON THIS, IF YOU HAVE IT, LET'S SEE IT.

 

[zone]

I think you've pretty much nailed it but heres a website:

LINK: In The Greatest Prophecy Ever Fulfilled

thank you doc

 

[zone]

Zone,

Could the second coming or advent of Jesus Christ be today or tomorrow? Is His return to the earth imminent, meaning it could happen at any moment? Surely such a simple question cannot be denied an answer. Do you believe that Zone or do you believe there are others things that must happen before His second coming can take place? I asked you about what you believed to be already fulfilled according to the scriptures in Revelation, but you referred me to another and told me to do my homework.

This thing you have with conspiracies and the Illuminati and the fake rapture that you have boasted of that could happen, is this so that you can justify that there is no real rapture of the church so that Antichrist can have entrance through a delusion and gain prominence in the world among the churched? Is it also for your boasting, that when this fake rapture happens, that you can be prepared to rebuke that spirit of Antichrist and help all the brethren that have fallen away from the faith because the rapture did not happen as they believed or supposed?

you and i have parted ways.

 

[Red33]

you and i have parted ways.

IS THIS TOO DIFFICULT FOR YOU TO ANSWER BECAUSE YOU ARE AFRAID THAT SOME OF YOUR FRIENDS MIGHT DISAGREE WITH YOU OR THAT YOU MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO DO IT ON YOUR OWN WITHOUT REFERRING THE ANSWER TO SOME INTERNET WEBSITE? PERHAPS YOU FEAR THAT IF YOU ANSWERED YOU MIGHT DISOBEY SOME INSTRUCTIONS THAT WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN IN THE SCRIPTURES. WHERE IS YOUR HOMEWORK AND EXTENSIVE KNOWLEDGE ON THIS, IF YOU HAVE IT, LET'S SEE IT.

Don't back out now and be a quitter. You have friends that are looking on. You don't want to let them down do you?

 

[zone]

IS THIS TOO DIFFICULT FOR YOU TO ANSWER BECAUSE YOU ARE AFRAID THAT SOME OF YOUR FRIENDS MIGHT DISAGREE WITH YOU OR THAT YOU MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO DO IT ON YOUR OWN WITHOUT REFERRING THE ANSWER TO SOME INTERNET WEBSITE? PERHAPS YOU FEAR THAT IF YOU ANSWERED YOU MIGHT DISOBEY SOME INSTRUCTIONS THAT WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN IN THE SCRIPTURES. WHERE IS YOUR HOMEWORK AND EXTENSIVE KNOWLEDGE ON THIS, IF YOU HAVE IT, LET'S SEE IT.

Don't back out now and be a quitter. You have friends that are looking on. You don't want to let them down do you?

friends?
you think i'm here to make friends?

if i can fellowship for a time with people rooted in good doctrine, i do.

if i can have some fun, i do.

if you think you are intimidating me or throwing down a guantlet i'm interested in, you're wrong.

your answer about if Christ could come any day, He could do anything He wants.

but He won't...

Paul explained what has to happen first in 2 thess 2.

but you don't believe paul, so why would you believe me?

bye red

 

[eternally-gratefull]

NOT serving JESUS. JESUS is the LIGHT! He is the REDEEMER. you even quoted it.


No EG I don't see your point. Jesus FULFILLED those prophecies and REDEEMED HIS PEOPLE and THE WORLD.

the rivers of water, Water of LIFE flowing from Christ? sound familiar?

Jesus the True Shepherd? us His sheep?

Its in the NT.

I still don't get what you think is unfulfilled.

Funny thing is ananda. you IGNORE THE FACT ALL THOSE PROPHESIES CONCERNED JACOB AND ISREAl. WHO WERE PUNISHED FOR THEIR UNBELIEF AND SENT TO THE GENTILES AS A PUNISHMENT. (This was completely fulfilled and AD 70) THEY ALL SAY GOD WILL RESTORE THEM AFTER THEY REPENT.

You ignore this fact., I can't. thus why you failed to convince me. I don;t just read parts of passages and ignore the context. You do as you wish.

Paul said in romans that jew and gentile are one under Christ. all except for romans 11. when he said gentile was grafted in, and jew was cut off. But he said when the time of the gentile was finished. jew would be grafted back in.

None of us will deny jews are saved today. so he is not talking about a remant jew being saved. He is talking about a group of people. Jew vs Gentile

God offered the church to jerusalem, they denied it. so God cut them off as his representative to the world. and gave it to the gentile through Paul. But Paul said quite clearly and literally. Gods promise and covenants are not made null and void. Israel is our enemy concerning the gospel (they reject it) but are our beloved concerning the promise. as the promise is made to them, NOT US!

The time of the gentile will come to and end. And at this time (and NOT UNTIL THEN) will ALL ISREAL BE SAVED. As was said in the OT. they will returned to their land, and again made a light to the world as representatives of Christ. It is all in the passages I posted. Your failure to see this does not make it not true.

either way. You have failed to prove your point to me. I can't see it. I MUST TAKE GOD LITERALLY.

Daniel was praying for HIS PEOPLE AND HIS HOLY CITY. Not the gentile. Gabriels answer was to DANIELS PEOPLE AND DANIELS HOLY CITY. The church has no part of daniels prophesy. Unless you do not take it literally. Which I CAN NOT DO. Period!

we will have to agree to disagree. Unless you wish to be like strangleove and condemn me as not saved because I can not agree with you

 

[unclefester]

Don't back out now and be a quitter. You have friends that are looking on. You don't want to let them down do you?

It is not within yours or Zones ...... or anybodyelse's realm to "let anybody down" Red. At least not in the context that you chose to use the term. Furthermore, if Zone opted to convert to charismatic/pentecostalism tomorrow, it would in no way influence me to follow ...... because I am convinced on my own already that it is unbiblical. Now on the other hand, in regards to what you profess to believe concerning apostles and prophets today ......do you share the latest "prophecies" you read here with your fellow brethren with whom you congregate ...... seeing that you believe these "prophecies" to be the very words of God Himself ? Or are you a quitter when it comes time to act on your belief ...... and do you simply let everybody down ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is not within yours or Zones ...... or anybodyelse's realm to "let anybody down" Red. At least not in the context that you chose to use the term. Furthermore, if Zone opted to convert to charismatic/pentecostalism tomorrow, it would in no way influence me to follow ...... because I am convinced on my own already that it is unbiblical. Now on the other hand, in regards to what you profess to believe concerning apostles and prophets today ......do you share the latest "prophecies" you read here with your fellow brethren with whom you congregate ...... seeing that you believe these "prophecies" to be the very words of God Himself ? Or are you a quitter when it comes time to act on your belief ...... and do you simply let everybody down ?

Some people just think they are Gods gift and everyone else is doomed.

I am still waiting for one of them to tell me something God needed us to know which can not be found in his word. They are letting everybody down by not answering.

 

[Strangelove]

we will have to agree to disagree. Unless you wish to be like strangleove and condemn me as not saved because I can not agree with you

Where did I ever condemn you as being not saved?

Either provide the quote or retract this absurd statement.

 

[Strangelove]

I am a Premillenialist myself. I believe that Revelation should be taken literally, including the Reign of Christ on the Earth. I find that taking the Bible figuratively is simply adding and taking away from the Bible. If God didn't mean it, it wouldn't be in there. I bellieve in a literal Hell and happily a literal Heaven. I believe in a literal New Jerusalem as much as I believe in a literal God.

Revelation never mentions a reign of Christ on Earth.

 

[AnandaHya]

Funny thing is ananda. you IGNORE THE FACT ALL THOSE PROPHESIES CONCERNED JACOB AND ISREAl. WHO WERE PUNISHED FOR THEIR UNBELIEF AND SENT TO THE GENTILES AS A PUNISHMENT. (This was completely fulfilled and AD 70) THEY ALL SAY GOD WILL RESTORE THEM AFTER THEY REPENT.

wait you mean to ignore the Babylonian captivity?


You ignore this fact., I can't. thus why you failed to convince me. I don;t just read parts of passages and ignore the context. You do as you wish. mmmm ok context, were the prophecies given during the Babylonian captivity? I'm not a history person but I can look at my books in a little bit after getting my son ready for school. I do remember reading that Daniel was serving the king of Babylonian....

Paul said in romans that jew and gentile are one under Christ. all except for romans 11. when he said gentile was grafted in, and jew was cut off. But he said when the time of the gentile was finished. jew would be grafted back in. ..... mmmm I reread that, perhaps you should too, have you noticed the word "now" the blindness was for the time it took for Jesus to fulfill the prophecies in the OT, it no longer applies. at least not after 70 AD

None of us will deny jews are saved today. so he is not talking about a remant jew being saved. He is talking about a group of people. Jew vs Gentile mmmm no he is talking about how HE is a Jew and how they should not pull a Hitler and kill all Jews for killing Jesus out of blindness that God used for His purpose...

God offered the church to jerusalem, they denied it. so God cut them off as his representative to the world. and gave it to the gentile through Paul. yes because Paul is such a gentile?


But Paul said quite clearly and literally. Gods promise and covenants are not made null and void. Israel is our enemy concerning the gospel (they reject it) but are our beloved concerning the promise. as the promise is made to them, NOT US! concerning ELECTION as in God chooses ALL of them to be saved but they will be rejected if they continue to rebel and NOT chose JESUS. just like their forefathers in the desert died in the wilderness, God does not call everyone who is NOT Jew out of the world, sad to say but He does listen to the prayers of His people

The time of the gentile will come to and end. And at this time (and NOT UNTIL THEN) will ALL ISREAL BE SAVED. As was said in the OT. they will returned to their land, and again made a light to the world as representatives of Christ. It is all in the passages I posted. Your failure to see this does not make it not true. you bare assertion of the fact you believe it is true doesn't make it true either.

either way. You have failed to prove your point to me. I can't see it. I MUST TAKE GOD LITERALLY. I really wish you would. I don't have to prove anything you could just pray to God about it and read it all for yourself. While you're at it ask WHY so many are taught to believe as you do. I don't seek to be your teacher EG. I'm just having polite conversation and discussing the Bible with those who are willing to talk about God's word. I'm glad to find others who agree that the Holy Spirit speaks on this subject

Daniel was praying for HIS PEOPLE AND HIS HOLY CITY. Not the gentile. Gabriels answer was to DANIELS PEOPLE AND DANIELS HOLY CITY. The church has no part of daniels prophesy. Unless you do not take it literally. Which I CAN NOT DO. Period! ???? not take it literally? you mean you think all Daniels prophecies are LITERAL? like the golden head, iron and clay toes, big rock, etc?

we will have to agree to disagree. Unless you wish to be like strangleove and condemn me as not saved because I can not agree with you

You can do whatever. I don't judge other people's salvation it is between them and God, but if I see them about to fall in a ditch or trip over a log. I do try and warn them and offer to pull them out, but some times people like playing in the mud.

I think I'll go back through the OT and show how God FUFILLED the prophecies through Jesus when I get a chance.

you really should ask GOD who Daniel's people are and not YOUR FLESH..... just an idea....

does Daniel have different "people" then God?

 

[zone]

It is not within yours or Zones ...... or anybodyelse's realm to "let anybody down" Red. At least not in the context that you chose to use the term. Furthermore, if Zone opted to convert to charismatic/pentecostalism tomorrow, it would in no way influence me to follow ...... because I am convinced on my own already that it is unbiblical. Now on the other hand, in regards to what you profess to believe concerning apostles and prophets today ......do you share the latest "prophecies" you read here with your fellow brethren with whom you congregate ...... seeing that you believe these "prophecies" to be the very words of God Himself ? Or are you a quitter when it comes time to act on your belief ...... and do you simply let everybody down ?

what? you mean i'm losing my control over you Fester?

LOL.....

pretty insulting a guy is told he isn't thinking for himself.
sad, really.

grade 8 stuff

 

[zone]

Some people just think they are Gods gift and everyone else is doomed.

I am still waiting for one of them to tell me something God needed us to know which can not be found in his word. They are letting everybody down by not answering.

i've seen that said about me by lots on this forum....that i'm doomed: i think God is dead. i don't speak in tongues therefore no Holy Spirit.
VW said dead...void of the spirit.

have i have EVER said that about you EG?

Daniel 9 is fulfilled, and most see that. i'm sorry you don't, but i have never said you're doomed.

who has?

 

[AnandaHya]

found this interesting history/prophecy lesson. have to feed daughter so only say the first few minutes...

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp1e6L_i6c0[/video]

 

[AnandaHya]

I'm not sure why I try but here we go....

A good place to start is the HISTORY of the Temple and the time period each of the prophets lived in...

Ezekial was during the Babylonian exile.... the below verses fulfilled when they were returned and got to build the temple again, you know the one Jesus preached in when He was 12?

"According to the Book of Ezra, construction of the Second Temple was authorized by Cyrus the Great and began in 538 BCE, after the fall of the Babylonian Empire the year before. It was completed 23 years later, on the third day of Adar, in the sixth year of the reign of Darius the Great (12 March 515 BCE)"

Temple in Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for what is said.[/B]

God said in Ez 37

11 Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They indeed say, ‘Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 Then you shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the LORD, have spoken it and performed it,” says the LORD.’ ”

Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel;

25 Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children’s children notice the conditional THREE generational promise?

This can not be the new jerusalem. the fathers never lived in the new jerusalem. This is the earthly land. again this was fulfilled BEFORE Jesus came, the prophecy says Dwell....

Is 49
‘You are My servant, O Israel,
In whom I will be glorified.’
4 Then I said, ‘I have labored in vain,
I have spent my strength for nothing and in vain;
Yet surely my just reward is with the LORD,
And my work with my God.’ ”

5 “And now the LORD says,
Who formed Me from the womb to be His Servant,
To bring Jacob back to Him,
So that Israel is gathered to Him
(For I shall be glorious in the eyes of the LORD,
And My God shall be My strength),
6 Indeed He says,
‘It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant
To raise up the tribes of Jacob,
And to restore the preserved ones of Israel;
I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles,
That You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”

7 Thus says the LORD,
The Redeemer of Israel, their Holy One,
To Him whom man despises,
To Him whom the nation abhors, mmm wonder if you think this is referring to JESUS or not?
To the Servant of rulers:
“Kings shall see and arise,
Princes also shall worship,
Because of the LORD who is faithful,
The Holy One of Israel;
And He has chosen You.”
8 Thus says the LORD: “In an acceptable time I have heard You, and in the day of salvation I have helped You; I will preserve You and give You As a covenant to the people, To restore the earth, do you think there is another to be given as a covenant to the people to restore the earth Besides Jesus?


31 “At the same time,” says the LORD, “I will be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be My people.”
2 Thus says the LORD:

“The people who survived the sword
Found grace in the wilderness
Israel, when I went to give him rest.”

3 The LORD has appeared of old to me, saying:
“Yes, I have loved you with an everlasting love;
Therefore with lovingkindness I have drawn you.
4 Again I will build you, and you shall be rebuilt,
O virgin of Israell!
You shall again be adorned with your tambourines,
And shall go forth in the dances of those who rejoice.
5 You shall yet plant vines on the mountains of Samaria;
The planters shall plant and eat them as ordinary food.
6 For there shall be a day
When the watchmen will cry on Mount Ephraim,
‘Arise, and let us go up to Zion,
To the LORD our God.’ ” [/B


I could go on and on. But you DO NOT see the picture

If you don't see the foreshadowing in the OT prophecies and fulfillment in Jesus, neither did the Pharisees. I think I'll follow Jesus' example concerning the matter and talk to people who actually can hear and see what I'm trying to discuss.

You have not proven anything, why are you in an Amillennialism thread? by the title itself you can tell you will be hard press to find people who believe as you do, why not start a Millenialism thread and post WHY your beliefs are Biblical there?

since most people what to believe in the Rapture (since people like to tie the two together) and have power/rule over other people, you'll have a lot of takers.

Revelation 19:10
And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”


if the Testimony of JESUS is the SPIRIT of prophecy why is it so hard for some people to allow that PROPHECY speaks of JESUS?

 

[AnandaHya]

The temple was FIRST destroyed AFTER Daniel's prophecies:

The First Temple was totally destroyed by the Babylonians in 586 BCE when they sacked the city

Temple in Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Daniel and his friends were carried off in 606 BCE. which is 36 years BEFORE the temple was destroyed in the first place......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel

context? what about reading the Bible and using HISTORICAL context to help in determining what prophecies have been fulfilled or not.....

still waiting for the other side to establish their "case" or "proof"......

(yeah not the best sources but you can find it in other books as well and its faster to post internet links then type up a bibliography)

 

[zone]

If you don't see the foreshadowing in the OT prophecies and fulfillment in Jesus, neither did the Pharisees. I think I'll follow Jesus' example concerning the matter and talk to people who actually can hear and see what I'm trying to discuss.

You have not proven anything, why are you in an Amillennialism thread? by the title itself you can tell you will be hard press to find people who believe as you do, why not start a Millenialism thread and post WHY your beliefs are Biblical there?

Covenant Theology is beautiful, isn't it?
suddenly WE SEE JESUS everywhere!

love you ana.
good stuff.