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Originally Posted by Crossfire
The sad thing here is that there is such a push against sinless perfection, that many people ignore the fact that the bible does teach that we should consecrate ourselves. I have met many who believe imputed righteousness gives them an excuse to live very sinful lifestyles and treat people very poorly. Nowhere in the bibles does Scripture support such an idea. It actually teaches the opposite.
Our ultimate goal should be to live like Jesus lived. By saying this I actually mean love like Jesus loved. That includes loving your enemy. Too many on these boards like to ridicule those who strongly disagree with them and, as a result, push these people further into error.
Anyways, it doesn't matter to me if you believe this way or that way, if it is your hearts desire to follow Jesus then you are a brother or sister in Christ. The error most of us make that we don't even see is not so much doctrinal, but it's emotional. You could have perfect doctrine and still not know the love of God in your heart. Unfortunately, I see traces of that here on these boards.
The sad thing here is that there is such a push against sinless perfection, that many people ignore the fact that the bible does teach that we should consecrate ourselves. I have met many who believe imputed righteousness gives them an excuse to live very sinful lifestyles and treat people very poorly. Nowhere in the bibles does Scripture support such an idea. It actually teaches the opposite.
Our ultimate goal should be to live like Jesus lived. By saying this I actually mean love like Jesus loved. That includes loving your enemy. Too many on these boards like to ridicule those who strongly disagree with them and, as a result, push these people further into error.
Anyways, it doesn't matter to me if you believe this way or that way, if it is your hearts desire to follow Jesus then you are a brother or sister in Christ. The error most of us make that we don't even see is not so much doctrinal, but it's emotional. You could have perfect doctrine and still not know the love of God in your heart. Unfortunately, I see traces of that here on these boards.
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Yes it does. No one here that I know of teaches this. This is a licentious gospel condemned by James and Jude. The problem is people want to dis this extreme and take the extreme to the other side. (Like 4runner is doing) and turn the gospel into a gospel of works.
I agree. But when it comes to the gospel ( which is the subject in this board) there is no "agree to disagree" The true gospel must be stood up for. Because it is the only gospel which will get people to heaven. A wrong gospel believed will lead to eternal death, not eternal life.
again, when it comes to the gospel this is not true. Believeing in premill, or amill doctrines, or other "nonsalvic" issues you are right. But believing in a wrong or "other gospel" will lead ya straight to hell.
whats amazing is people like 4 runner here will state I am teaching a licentious gospel. Where as people teaching a licentious gospel will tell me I am legalistic. because I refuse to allow them to just live in sin.
Both beliefs come from pride. and pride will keep many from tasting heaven.
I agree. But when it comes to the gospel ( which is the subject in this board) there is no "agree to disagree" The true gospel must be stood up for. Because it is the only gospel which will get people to heaven. A wrong gospel believed will lead to eternal death, not eternal life.
again, when it comes to the gospel this is not true. Believeing in premill, or amill doctrines, or other "nonsalvic" issues you are right. But believing in a wrong or "other gospel" will lead ya straight to hell.
whats amazing is people like 4 runner here will state I am teaching a licentious gospel. Where as people teaching a licentious gospel will tell me I am legalistic. because I refuse to allow them to just live in sin.
Both beliefs come from pride. and pride will keep many from tasting heaven.
I am temporarily sinless, and plane to make it permanent. The good thing is if I do fall God will be there to pick me up. The difference between me and you is I believe God is able to keep me from falling via His word Jude:24
Jude:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy
Is God a liar, or am I correct in believing He is able?
Jude:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy
Is God a liar, or am I correct in believing He is able?
U
What I am most opposed to Crossfire is saddling others with a burden that I myself cannot carry. This is exactly what "sinless in the flesh" doctrine propagates. Not a one of it's adherents is now nor ever will be sinless while in their flesh. Sin is what brought death to mankind. As I have previously stated, if we achieved sinlessness in our flesh, we would not die a physical death.
John 8:7 But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."
So your a sinner. Good. glad you can admit it.
Now....name me one person who is permanently sinless. Are there any walking the earth right now?
He is able and IT IS DONE.
There is NO CONDEMNATION for those that are in Christ because we wear HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS.
We will not fall away from our FAITH (see predestination) because we are held/kept by the power of God.
And we are faultless/blameless IN CHRIST. Declared NOT GUILTY by His shed blood.
Notwithstanding the pipedreams of perfectionist workhorse hypocritical lawyers.
WHO is able to present us faultless?
Us or Him?
Jude:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy
Now....name me one person who is permanently sinless. Are there any walking the earth right now?
He is able and IT IS DONE.
There is NO CONDEMNATION for those that are in Christ because we wear HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS.
We will not fall away from our FAITH (see predestination) because we are held/kept by the power of God.
And we are faultless/blameless IN CHRIST. Declared NOT GUILTY by His shed blood.
Notwithstanding the pipedreams of perfectionist workhorse hypocritical lawyers.
WHO is able to present us faultless?
Us or Him?
Jude:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy
There could be many. Do you know every person in the world, and the people you do know do you follow their every move to see if and when they sin?
The you are saying you are sinless?
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no more condemnation to the that are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.
Hyper Grace teachers say that this means once you get saved you cannot be condemned for anything you do. Yet they leave out the condition of this promise. The condition is walking in the Spirit and not the flesh. Those that walk in the Spirit will not sin therefore they indeed will not be condemned. We can see just how perverse the teaching of Hyper Grace is when you read the entire passage Romans 8:1-8 in context,
Romans 8:1-8
1 There is therefore now no more condemnation to the that are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made us free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through our flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh.
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be Spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law God nor can it be.
8 So they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
The whole purpose of this passage is to explain that we must not continue to be led by our own flesh, lust, and desire. But that we have to let the Spirit of God lead us into the freedom from sin that He sent His Son to give us. Yet there are those that would use 1/2 of one scripture to say just the opposite. If that is not inspired by Satan, then nothing is.
Predestination, and OSAS are both a lode of crap
Not if we continue in sin You mean like Jesus, Paul Peter, James, and John?
God is able
Yep it is by the ability given to us by God that we are able. thank you for proving my point.
The you are saying you are sinless?
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no more condemnation to the that are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.
Hyper Grace teachers say that this means once you get saved you cannot be condemned for anything you do. Yet they leave out the condition of this promise. The condition is walking in the Spirit and not the flesh. Those that walk in the Spirit will not sin therefore they indeed will not be condemned. We can see just how perverse the teaching of Hyper Grace is when you read the entire passage Romans 8:1-8 in context,
Romans 8:1-8
1 There is therefore now no more condemnation to the that are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made us free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through our flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh.
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be Spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law God nor can it be.
8 So they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
The whole purpose of this passage is to explain that we must not continue to be led by our own flesh, lust, and desire. But that we have to let the Spirit of God lead us into the freedom from sin that He sent His Son to give us. Yet there are those that would use 1/2 of one scripture to say just the opposite. If that is not inspired by Satan, then nothing is.
Predestination, and OSAS are both a lode of crap
Not if we continue in sin You mean like Jesus, Paul Peter, James, and John?
God is able
Yep it is by the ability given to us by God that we are able. thank you for proving my point.
U
Of course we are "cleansed of our sin".....thru God's forgiveness in Christ to as many as received Him. How else would we be able to enter into His presence if we weren't ? But are we righteous because of something we achieve (with God's help) or are we declared righteous by our faith in Christ ? In case you missed this the first time :
We won’t have this old body of sin in Heaven, for the Lord will give us a new body. No sinful thing can enter Heaven, so God doesn’t take the old sinful body to Heaven. Beloved, the very fact that Christians die physically proves that they are not sinless in the body. Do you realize that the only thing that causes either physical or eternal death is sin? Thus, if we were sinlessly perfect in the flesh, we would never die, for there would be no sin to cause us to die. In view of the fact that we all die, it is quite evident that no one is perfect in the old flesh.
Pilgrim Publications
We won’t have this old body of sin in Heaven, for the Lord will give us a new body. No sinful thing can enter Heaven, so God doesn’t take the old sinful body to Heaven. Beloved, the very fact that Christians die physically proves that they are not sinless in the body. Do you realize that the only thing that causes either physical or eternal death is sin? Thus, if we were sinlessly perfect in the flesh, we would never die, for there would be no sin to cause us to die. In view of the fact that we all die, it is quite evident that no one is perfect in the old flesh.
Pilgrim Publications