Obedience REQUIRED

[mailmandan]

100% never shows up in Scripture!

The Scripture I cited proves otherwise.

Jn 15:1=6 union with Christ bears fruit!

Of course, it does, which is a spiritual and vital connection with Christ as the vine, unlike a fruitless branch which shows outward connection without inward life. False professors may appear attached for a season, but no fruit exposes no life.

Not faith alone!

It's still faith in Jesus Christ alone that saves. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2;8,9) Not faith in works.

Lk 8:15 ;But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Only a good tree bears good fruit. (Matthew 7:17) to bring fourth fruit with patience is the evidence of salvation, but not the cause of it.

Not faith alone!

It's still faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation that saves. Your faith is in works.

 

[rogerg]

Grace not salvation!

Salvation cannot be lost grace ca. Be lost

Explain these please

Eph 5:2-6 children of disobedience shall not inherit the kingdom of God
gal 5:1-4 fallen from grace
gal 5:19-21 shall not inherit the kingdom of God
gal 6:7-8 sow and reap
1 cor 6:9-10 & 15-20 shall not inherit the kingdom of God
1 tim 5:12 lost faith
Hebrews 6:4-6 fall away
rev 21:8 sin buys the lake of fire
rev 21:27 sin keeps us out of heaven
rom 8:1 gace lost by sin
gal 5:4 can fall from grace
1 cor 15:10 can have grace in vain
2 cor 4:7 treasure (grace) in earthen vessels
1 Jn 3:15 no life (grace)
Jn 15:5 apart from Christ? NOTHING!
2 Peter 1:10 diligence to make your calling and election sure
Luke 15:24 my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.

Thks

Amazingrace, as I explicitly told you in my previous posts, because you do not include your specific written explanation of these verses, leaving them completely open-ended, I will not address them. Putting a few brief words or phrases after a verse is not an explanation. Put your specific explanations and mechanics and how they support your supposition in a post first for me to reply to, and then we can proceed.

 

[rogerg]

"It is finished" refers to the Passover sacrifice see Jn 1:29 &
1 cor 5:6=8

We participate with Christ

Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

What lacking in the afflictions of Christ? Our participation!

That's why He says:

Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

And
Phil 1:29

For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

HIS SAKE IS THE SALVATION OF SOULS!

Thks

Amazingrace,
your claim that Christ's afflictions were lacking and require human participation to finish salvation is a denial of Scripture. You distort Colossians 1:24, Luke 9:23, and Philippians 1:29. Paul does not associate either of those to becoming saved or remaining saved. That is an incorrect assumption on your part that you impose upon those verses. By your posts you make it obvious that you either don't understand what a Savior is, or what He did/does, or both. When Jesus declared "It is finished" in John 19:30, He used the word Tetelestai, which is a legal term that means Paid in Full. The debt was completely wiped out by Him alone - all of it - none of it left open.
You completely twist Colossians 1:24. Paul uses the word for ministerial tribulations, never the word for Christ's sacrificial, atoning death. Christ's atoning work was 100% complete at Calvary. The only thing lacking is the temporal task assigned to the true believers to carry that finished message to the world. As I told you before, by claiming that you must suffer and participate to finish what Christ supposedly left behind, you make Christ an incomplete Savior and turn a finished gift into a conditional wage. All who are covered by Christ offering and sacrifice, must and will become saved without exception. It was God' promise and as such, not left up to man to achieve or satisfy

 

[walter549]

In short, we have been saved (past tense) spiritually, our souls are being saved (present tense) and our bodies will be saved (and transformed - future tense).

So you feel you're saved, and You don't have to listen to the rest of the new Testament scriptures?

 

[sawdust]

Our free will can choose sin and unrepentance and domination

So? Are you powerful enough to undo what God has done and make Him break His promise? He has made us alive in Christ. Our sin did not stop Him doing that (thanks be to Christ), what makes you think our sin can stop Him with the rest of His promises.

In sin we fall, in grace we stand!

Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.


Romans 5:2

By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. (Stand in grace not salvation)

Grace can be lost!

Did you read what I wrote? I already said that grace can be lost. It's why so many Christians are powerless in their walk because they do not believe/understand how powerful, generous, merciful and loving the the Lord is. And I do not say that as a condemnation but coming to know the Lord is what it means to grow up to the full stature of Christ. We are all in different places in our walk with Him and is why Peter urged his listeners to grow in grace and the knowledge (gnosis) of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2Pet.3:18. Grace is not static. Jm.4:6

Are you alive in Christ or not? We have been saved from spiritual death. How do you not understand this is a salvation? It is not a promise to be fulfilled in some future time. If you are still dead in your sin you cannot hope to understand spiritual matters. Jn.3:3 1Cor.2:14

Why do people always read words like "curse" or "damnation" as meaning losing one's salvation when there are so many verses that secure our salvation?

We have been sealed with the Holy Spirit. Can you break God's seal? Can you undo your adoption? Is your will stronger than God's?

Of course we stand in grace for grace is the Lord's will and power working in us to overcome. When we don't stand in grace we are powerless and not in God's will but this does not mean we lose our spiritual life every time we sin and have to be born anew over and over and over again.

If all you are going to do is repeat yourself and not show what I said doesn't mean what I said or answer any of the questions I have asked, this conversation will go nowhere and will be a waste of both our time. Thankyou.

 

[rogerg]

In that case all men must be saved?

Amazingrace,
only God's elect sheep (His eternal children) from eternity past, and only His elect sheep, no others, must and will become saved. You do not seem to understand the nature of Christ's cross. He did not purchase a generic, open-ended probation for all men to fulfill through their own work. Ephesians 1:4 states clearly that He "hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world", with the "us" meaning only His children. The transaction was perfectly finished by Jesus Christ, Savior, for them alone.

 

[sawdust]

So you feel you're saved, and You don't have to listen to the rest of the new Testament scriptures?

I don't "feel" I'm saved, I know I'm saved because the Lord says so in His word as I outlined in my post. If one has no assurance, then one should also question if they have faith because faith is the assurance of things hoped for and the conviction of what is not seen and without faith no-one can please God Heb.11:6. Below is the Amplified version to flesh out it's meaning.

Heb.11:1
Now faith is the assurance (title deed, confirmation) of things hoped for (divinely guaranteed), and the evidence of things not seen [the conviction of their reality—faith comprehends as fact what cannot be experienced by the physical senses].

Maybe it is you who need to listen to the rest of the New Testament.

Ephesians 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Let me know when you have built up the strength to break God's seal and evict the Holy Spirit.

 

[walter549]

I don't "feel" I'm saved, I know I'm saved because the Lord says so in His word as I outlined in my post. If one has no assurance, then one should also question if they have faith because faith is the assurance of things hoped for and the conviction of what is not seen and without faith no-one can please God Heb.11:6. Below is the Amplified version to flesh out it's meaning.

Heb.11:1
Now faith is the assurance (title deed, confirmation) of things hoped for (divinely guaranteed), and the evidence of things not seen [the conviction of their reality—faith comprehends as fact what cannot be experienced by the physical senses].

Maybe it is you who need to listen to the rest of the New Testament.

Ephesians 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Let me know when you have built up the strength to break God's seal and evict the Holy Spirit.

So what do you do with all the scriptures that talk about obedience, observance of Jesus commands, those who hear God’s word and put it into practice.” and faith without works is dead?

For me every single scripture is important.

 

[sawdust]

So what do you do with all the scriptures that talk about obedience, observance of Jesus commands, those who hear God’s word and put it into practice.” and faith without works is dead?

For me every single scripture is important.

I do the same thing with them as I do with all the other scriptures. I believe them and apply them to my life by trusting in the grace of God in the power of the Holy Spirit through the transforming power of the Word. It is the word that generates faith in us, not our believing. Without the word, no-one has faith. Rom.10:17

Faith is the word of God at work in us. This is why King David would say "I will hide the word in my heart" Ps.119:11 and why we are encouraged to let the word dwell in us richly. Col.3:16 This why salvation comes by grace through faith. It is all of God's working. If we are living in accordance with His word, then we will bear the fruits but we will never generate them of our own working no matter how hard we try.

Again, there is no salvation apart from grace. It is grace that made us alive in the past when we believed the Gospel. It is grace that overcomes and transforms us in the present and it will be grace that will raise our dead bodies and transform them on the Day.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

As salvation won't be assured until the day of the resurrection, (and many people fall away before their own deaths), counting on our salvation before it occurs is pointless.

God, In Grace, Assures Eternal Salvation Through faith, At The Moment of 100% trust and
belief In His Gospel Of Grace!:
The Three Tenses Of God's Eternal Salvation! = His Grace, Peace, Mercy, And Love!
And, Biblically Confirmed By A Vast Multitude Of Plain And Clear Scriptures:

God's OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!
+ Updates: (of # 11) + (of #14)
+
God's Eternal Life Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

Which Can Never be negated by any finite being! Amen.

--------------
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

The Bible: The BIG Picture

Amen.

 

[carbunculus]

Yes please be richly encouraged. Amen

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

For me every single scripture is important.

Amen! Precious friend, no disagreement here, thus a question for 'Rightly Divided'
Scripture?: 'Which' Commands do we obey?:

I have decided to follow Jesus?
+
Agreement With The Gospel?

-------------
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

The Bible: The BIG Picture

Amen.

 

[walter549]

Again, there is no salvation apart from grace.

I appreciate and respect what you just explained.

• First without God's free gift and his Sons sacrificial ransom sacrifice, you are right, we would not have Salvation.
• Second.. This free gift.. It's not an excuse not to take every single scripture seriously and apply its instructions in our life.

IMO

 

[Gideon300]

Why does Jesus command the apostolic church to do it?

Mt 28:19

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

And

2 pet 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 8:19
And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

Thks

Lord Jesus commanded us to preach the gospel. We are not responsible for how people respond. When the apostles preached on the day of Pentecost, thousands were saved. When Stephen preached to the Sanhedrin, they stoned him to death.

God saves people. The gospel is His means.

 

[walter549]

Amen! Precious friend, no disagreement here, thus a question for 'Rightly Divided'
Scripture?: 'Which' Commands do we obey?

Thank you , All I have is the scriptures and what they explain.. All I am trying to do is reference a few scriptures and include their instructions in what I believe to be true. I am not saying my view is correct, I just think it is supported in the Bible.

2 Thessalonians 1:8
Berean Standard Bible
in blazing fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

Hebrews 5:9
New King James Version
And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

John 3:36
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Whoever is trusting in The Son, has The Eternal Life, and whoever disobeys The Son shall not see The Life, but the anger of God shall abide upon him.”

Matthew 7:21
Christian Standard Bible
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.

Matthew 7:13-14
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Enter the narrow gate, for the gate is wide and the road is spacious which leads to destruction, and many are those who are going in it. 14 How narrow is the gate and strict the way that leads to life, and few are those who find it!

 

[carbunculus]

Thank you , All I have is the scriptures and what they explain.. All I am trying to do is reference a few scriptures and include their instructions in what I believe to be true. I am not saying my view is correct, I just think it is supported in the Bible.

2 Thessalonians 1:8
Berean Standard Bible
in blazing fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

Hebrews 5:9
New King James Version
And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

John 3:36
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Whoever is trusting in The Son, has The Eternal Life, and whoever disobeys The Son shall not see The Life, but the anger of God shall abide upon him.”

Matthew 7:21
Christian Standard Bible
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.

Matthew 7:13-14
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Enter the narrow gate, for the gate is wide and the road is spacious which leads to destruction, and many are those who are going in it. 14 How narrow is the gate and strict the way that leads to life, and few are those who find it!

Yep saved children Of God obey Jesus, because his sheep hear his voice and they what ?

 

[walter549]

Yep saved children Of God obey Jesus, because his sheep hear his voice and they what ?

what?

 

[Freed18]

its a great answer. Jesus said whoever sees and believes will be saved.

Didn't you think I would notice that you had to rearrange Jesus' words to get your POV ?
I don't think rearranging the Savior's words is a good idea.

Mark 16 is the only one which says baptised.

What do you mean ?
The only gospel ?
Luke ends with..."And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."
As the remission of sins occurs at baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, (Acts 2:38), it parallel's Jesus's thoughts in Mark.
Matthew concludes with..."Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

I repented and recieved the gift of the spirit. and because I recieved remission of sin, a year later I was baptized in water

I find that sequence quite unbiblical.

Your trying to save yourself.

Hardly, unless you feel that obedience to God will yield salvation...which it will !
Besides, didn't your last line make you guilty of the same allegedly horrible mistake ?
If we don't act on that which God has delivered to us, we will not be saved.

well your not obeying God that I can see.

If I could see what you see, I would correct it, so I would be saved.

 

[Freed18]

the flesh is a term for your self will

When I write flesh, it means skin and bones.
When I write "flesh", it means the worldly oriented mind.
That mind is changed at rebirth from God's seed.
The converted get the mind of Christ.

John said if you claim to be without sin your are decieved

He wrote that you would indeed be deceived, if you were walking in darkness-sin.
Those walking in the light-God would not be deceived when saying they had no sin, because there is no darkness-sin in God !
Do you think there is sin in God ?
No ?
Well then, how can there be sin on those who are "in" God ?

He said if he claimed to be without sin he was decieved.

He would be too...if he was walking in darkness-sin when he said it.
But I am fairly certain that John was walking in God/light when he wrote this, so would not be deceived.

try to listen to John, and not your flesh

My "flesh"was destroyed at its baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remisison of sins. (Rom 6:6)
Paul writes..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
I have no "flesh", or vile affections, or lusts to listen to anymore...thanks be to God and His gift of baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins.

 

[Freed18]

God, In Grace, Assures Eternal Salvation Through faith, At The Moment of 100% trust and
belief In His Gospel Of Grace!:

I agree, so those who contiue to commit sin are not really faithful believers.
Their faith seems to be in the falsity that they have to commit sin but it won't matter.

If I remain faithfully obedient unto death, I will be saved.
But if I don't remain faithly obedient unto death, I will be lost.