Rapture= false teaching

[peterT]

It is not written when we are caught up to be with Him. That there will be a trump of God, but is that the last trump? Maybe not.

There are way too many scenes in heaven when there is a great multitude before the Lamb and the throne. And I am not talking about the souls who were under the throne.

Personally, I tend to lean toward a mid tribulation catching away. Sometime before the wrath of God is poured out on the earth.

You are welcome to your belief, just don't expect me to believe it just because you say it.

In Christ.

Corinthians Chapter 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed

1 Thessalonians Chapter 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


It just happens that Jesus comes in the clouds.
It just happens that Jesus comes at the last trumpet.
It just happens that Jesus comes with the voice of the archangel..
It just happens that Jesus raze the dead first.

It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed from the dead.
It just happens that the two end time prophets hear a voce saying come up hither.
It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed in the clouds
It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed at the sound of the last trumpet

Revelation Chapter 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.14 The second woe is past; [and], behold, the third woe cometh quickly.15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
.
Revelation Chapter 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

The two end time prophets are killed by the beast at the end of the great tribulation
　
confirmed by
　
Matthew 24:29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

it doesn't get much better than that


love from peter

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Corinthians Chapter 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed

1 Thessalonians Chapter 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


It just happens that Jesus comes in the clouds.
It just happens that Jesus comes at the last trumpet.
It just happens that Jesus comes with the voice of the archangel..
It just happens that Jesus raze the dead first.

It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed from the dead.
It just happens that the two end time prophets hear a voce saying come up hither.
It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed in the clouds
It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed at the sound of the last trumpet

Revelation Chapter 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.14 The second woe is past; [and], behold, the third woe cometh quickly.15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
.
Revelation Chapter 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

The two end time prophets are killed by the beast at the end of the great tribulation
　
confirmed by
　
Matthew 24:29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

it doesn't get much better than that


love from peter

1. Actually your reasoning is faulty. You can not prove the "trump" of thess is the same trump in revelations. You only assume.

2. You state the two witnesses occure at the end of tribulation. Yet revelations shows this not to be true. Only two woes have occured. The third woe is yet to come ;

Rev 12:

7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them[a] in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

After this we have the great persecuation of the woman (Israel). The number of the beast (666) and many more things which must happen before the end is come.

You have good points. But there are two many holes in them to make is known that it is absolute truth.

 

[zone]

Speaking about partying in the last day:

Jer51:39. In their heat I WILL MAKE THEIR FEAST, and will make them drunken, that they may rejoice, and SLEEP A PERPETUAL SLEEP,and not awake,said the Lord.

rev11:10 And they that dwell Upon the earh SHALL REJOICE OVER THEM,AND MAKE MERRYand shall send GIFTS ONE TO ANOTHER; BECAUSE THESE TWO PROPHETS TORMENTED THEM THAT DWELL ON THE EARH.

REV 11:13. AND THE SAME HOUR WAS THERE AN EARTH QUAKE-----

V15. And the SEVENTH ANGEL SOUNDED; and there were great voices in heaven saying, THE KINGDOME OF THIS WORLD ARE BECOME THE KINGDOMS OF THE lORD,and his christ: And HE SHALL REIGN for ever and ever..

My question: what month does the world give gifts to one another?

""wakeup''.

hi wakeup.

so, are you basing your knowledge of the season, day and hour on that verse?

let's see......i guess you're thinking December? Christmas time?

where does it say people give gifts to each other and make merry BECAUSE the two prophets tormented them DURING A religious holiday?

if that's the case, how about Purim? is that what you meant? in this case it would be March.

The Laws of Sending Gifts on Purim

Mishloach Manot

By Eliezer Wenger

To Whom?
• Every adult is required to send on the day of Purim at least two ready to eat food items to at least one friend. This is called Mishloach Manot. Even one who is so poor that he is supported from public funds must fulfill the mitzvah in the minimum manner. Of course, those who send Mishloach Manot to more than one person are praiseworthy. Also one who is ill and in a hospital during Purim must fulfill this mitzvah, even if he only exchanges the food with another Jewish patient.


The Laws of Sending Gifts on Purim - Mishloach Manot - Miscellaneous


~

PURIM
Purim (Hebrew:

פּוּרִים (help·info) Pûrîm "lots", from the word pur,[2] related to Akkadian pūru) is a Jewish holiday that commemorates the deliverance of the Jewish people in the ancient Persian Empire from destruction in the wake of a plot by Haman, a story recorded in the Biblical Book of Esther (Megillat Esther).

Purim is celebrated annually according to the Hebrew calendar on the 14th day of the Hebrew month of Adar (Adar II in leap years), the day following the victory of the Jews over their enemies. Purim begins at sundown. In cities that were protected by a surrounding wall at the time of Joshua, Purim is celebrated on the 15th of the month;[3] Everywhere else, Purim is on the 14th, while the 15th is known as Shushan Purim. Due to Jerusalem's importance, it celebrates Purim on the 15th despite it not having been surrounded by a wall since the time of Joshua. This is to prevent less holy cities having an advantage over Jerusalem.

Purim is characterized by public recitation of the Scroll of Esther (keriat ha-megillah), additions to the prayers and the grace after meals (al hannisim), giving mutual gifts of food and drink (mishloach manot), giving charity to the poor (mattanot la-evyonim),[4] and a celebratory meal (se'udat Purim);[5] other customs include drinking wine, wearing of masks and costumes, and public celebration.

According to the Book of Esther, Haman, royal vizier to King Ahasuerus planned to kill the Jews, but his plans were foiled by Mordechai and Queen Esther. The day of deliverance became a day of feasting and rejoicing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purim

 

[walt2000]

hi which bit do you not agreeing with

love from peter

Revelation Chapter 11:12 - 11/13 (Trinity ,Thunder no.3 )

And after ( three days and an half ) Half of Seven
the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, ( Come up hither ). -----THE RAPTURE EVERYONE talks about.
And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud ( This is the RAPTURE );

and their enemies beheld them.13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake ( WAR on earth ), and the tenth part of the city fell,

and in the earthquake were slain of men seven ( SEVEN The perfect number ) thousand = a perpect number ,Christs number:

and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.14 The second woe is past; [and], behold, the third woe .

( It's all in Heaven after this ) cometh quickly.15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Your not Mentioning that ( this is the Third Thunder ) the Eight Thunders into account. In the above.

 

[peterT]

I also feel that the Tribulation period is not the wrath of God. Revelations state that the wrath of God takes place after the seven seal and seven trumpets. On the seventh trump Christ comes to rapture His people then the seven bowls of wrath are poured out. In my opinion, Tribulation could be compared to a refining or sifting process.

Hi..

tell me about the sixth and seventh seal and when you see them being opend?

from peter

 

[miktre]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMmKqX9YUg4[/video]

 

[enochson]

the answer to the question is yes the rapture is a false doctrine and the anti-christ is the flesh of man hung from the tree of shame. It's going to be real nice and wonderfull when man get it that they are the beast of the flesh and it's lust no matter if thats of the world or of there church doctrine of laws.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

the answer to the question is yes the rapture is a false doctrine and the anti-christ is the flesh of man hung from the tree of shame. It's going to be real nice and wonderfull when man get it that they are the beast of the flesh and it's lust no matter if thats of the world or of there church doctrine of laws.

So when Paul tells us that we who are alive will be "caught up" to heaven (which is literally what the term rapture means" he lied. and that is not going to happen?

 

[Zilla64007]

the only time we're caught up is when the dead in Christ rise... obviously, this is a resurrection. and since this is the resurrection of those who are in Christ, it is Biblical to say that v15 is the first resurrection, as mentioned in Rev20

 

[eternally-gratefull]

the only time we're caught up is when the dead in Christ rise... obviously, this is a resurrection. and since this is the resurrection of those who are in Christ, it is Biblical to say that v15 is the first resurrection, as mentioned in Rev20

whenever it is. It is said to be a "calling-up" or rapture

so you do believe in a rapture.see you learned something you did not know today, Praise God

 

[peterT]

1. Actually your reasoning is faulty. You can not prove the "trump" of thess is the same trump in revelations. You only assume.

2. You state the two witnesses occure at the end of tribulation. Yet revelations shows this not to be true. Only two woes have occured. The third woe is yet to come ;

Rev 12:

7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them[a] in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

After this we have the great persecuation of the woman (Israel). The number of the beast (666) and many more things which must happen before the end is come.

You have good points. But there are two many holes in them to make is known that it is absolute truth.

Hi eternally-gratefull.


Yes I am only assume that that’s the last trumpet for four reasons.

(1) it is actually the last trumpet the seventh trumpet in the book of revelation.
(2) the two end time witnesses are raised from the dead at that last trumpet.
(3) they are raised in the clouds at that last trumpet
(4) they are raised after they hear a voice .

If that doesn’t fit into these verses I don’t not what does.

Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed

1 Thessalonians Chapter 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

If revelation 11 is not the last trumpet, and if the two end time witnesses raising from the dead is not the gathering/rapture, then how many resurrections are there?

Yes I am assuming it is the last trumpet in Rv11 for the above reasons.

Why do you assume it’s not the last trumpet?


love from peter

 

[Katy-follower]

More worrying will be how the authorities choose to account for the disappearance of multitudes of people around the world after the rapture actually happens. Those left behind may never know or believe there was ever a rapture. Can you imagine the ridiculous theories, like an alien abduction? Because of information wars and mind control going on right now,how many will believe the conspiracy theories?

I can't see how Satan would want people to have the knowledge they were left behind because it would encourage many to call out to God for help.

The loss of family members, especially children, will be very traumatic and if deceived many might just turn to the beasts (government ruler and false religious ruler) for security instead of turning to God during this horrible time.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Corinthians Chapter 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed

1 Thessalonians Chapter 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


It just happens that Jesus comes in the clouds.
It just happens that Jesus comes at the last trumpet.
It just happens that Jesus comes with the voice of the archangel..
It just happens that Jesus raze the dead first.

It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed from the dead.
It just happens that the two end time prophets hear a voce saying come up hither.
It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed in the clouds
It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed at the sound of the last trumpet

Revelation Chapter 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.14 The second woe is past; [and], behold, the third woe cometh quickly.15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
.
Revelation Chapter 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

The two end time prophets are killed by the beast at the end of the great tribulation
　
confirmed by
　
Matthew 24:29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

it doesn't get much better than that


love from peter

As I said, the third woe had not happened yet. nor the final trumpet.

these men was raised physically. Breath returned to them, they walked around probably for awhile, before they were called up.

There is no mention of a full ressurection. Only these two men awoke and walked.

 

[Abiding]

haha 147 pages....im sure what i have to say...may have been said.

 

[enochson]

So when Paul tells us that we who are alive will be "caught up" to heaven (which is literally what the term rapture means" he lied. and that is not going to happen?

I have been caught up to heaven allready and sitted there in christ. Paul's not the lier here man is the lier here because man will not blieve the event that has taken place and believes only his vain imagation

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have been caught up to heaven allready and sitted there in christ. Paul's not the lier here man is the lier here because man will not blieve the event that has taken place and believes only his vain imagation

wow, no words can speak to this.

you need to study scripture more. find out what happens to those who have died and went before. You know. Like abraham, moses, paul and peter. they will be taken up first. and those of us who are alive (if we are still here) will be taken up after.

if you think this life is all we have, our salvation is but pittifull. and we should all stop suffering and doing whatever causes us to suffer. because we have no hope.

 

[peterT]

As I said, the third woe had not happened yet. nor the final trumpet.

these men was raised physically. Breath returned to them, they walked around probably for awhile, before they were called up.

There is no mention of a full ressurection. Only these two men awoke and walked.

Sorry you lost me.

i never said the seventh trumpet had sounded.

The seals are opened and the seventh seal when opened is the seven trumpets in that seventh seal.

Rv8:1And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. 2And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
Rv8: 6And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

Sounds like the seals open first and then the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

As for the two end time witnesses raising from the dead it doesn’t say.

“Breath returned to them, they walked around probably for awhile”.

It say they stood upon their feet and heard a great voice Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud.

It also says

Rv10:7But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

1 Thess4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


Rv11: 11And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them

 

[titus211]

Liked Left Behind books, to bad its all a LIE!!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry you lost me.

i never said the seventh trumpet had sounded.

The seals are opened and the seventh seal when opened is the seven trumpets in that seventh seal.

Rv8:1And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. 2And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
Rv8: 6And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

Sounds like the seals open first and then the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

As for the two end time witnesses raising from the dead it doesn’t say.

“Breath returned to them, they walked around probably for awhile”.

It say they stood upon their feet and heard a great voice Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud.

It also says

Rv10:7But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

1 Thess4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


Rv11: 11And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them

So what your saying is you believe in a rapture sometime between mid and post. Since these two men are ressurected and ascend sometime in the middle to end of the last 3 1/2 years. For the seventh trump has to sound, and the armies need to gather around Isreal to be destroyed by Christ after these events take place.

Thats a new one on me/

 

[cronjecj]

there's no such thing as rapture
it's called the resurrection.

When Christ comes again we will
be caught up with Him in the air.