You pretty much answered along the lines I thought you would. So you think that even though God teaches in Romans chapter three that "there is none righteous, no, not one", "no one seeks for God",
"no one does good, not even one", there is no fear of God before their eyes, etc., that people still have free will to chose God, to chose good??!!
What is this chapter talking about? Is it giving the message that there is no one earth that will choose to do God and follow Christ? No, read the context: Paul is telling the Gentiles like in chapter 11 not to be high minded and think God chose them over the Jews because they were so much better and deseriving:
Romans 3:9: What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Romans 3:10: As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Romans 3:11: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Romans 3:12: They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
He is quoting from Psalms to show the Gentiles, it is not because they were so righteous that God chose to let them be a part of his plan. He applies Psalm to them, to show their condition, all the earth's condition, no one is righteous enough for God's grace. Same message in EPH 2 concerning works.
You cannot use this to mean no one is able to choose good, and that is is only God that makes the choices for us. GOD is no respecter of persons, you are making him out to be such.
Isaiah 7:15: Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
Isaiah 7:16: For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.
What about in John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him."
John 6:65 "And He said, 'This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father."
Again, this is not a message of no freedom of choice. It is saying no one can come unless drawn by the Father. How does he draw us? The same way he calls us:
II Thessalonians 2:14: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Why does he call us by the gospel?
Romans 1:16: For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
If the choice is already made for us, then the gospel is not the power of salvation.
God draws us by the gospel of Chirst, without God, their would be no gospel. It is granted to us by God to come to him through Chirst, that is the meaning of John 6:65: there is no other way granted but by Christ. This has nothing to do with what your trying to use it for.
What about Romans 9:11- 24 "though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad- in order that God's purpose of election of might continue, not because of works, but because of Him who calls- she was told, "The older will serve the younger." As it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
This is speaking fo the physical births of Jacob and Esau but using them in a national sense not a physical one. When did Esau ever serve Jacob? Can you show me that please?
Go read the account, Jacob feared Esua, even when they were grown. So when did he serve the younger?
In the spiritual sense, in which thier births symbolized, he did serve the younger.
Same sense in which Malichi spoke against Edom:
Malachi 1:3: And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
Malachi 1:4: Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.
What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then it depends not on human will or exertion/not of him who wills or runs, but on God, who has mercy. For the scripture says to pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." So then He has mercy on whomever He wills and He hardens whomever He wills.
This again does not mean what you want it to mean.
God's purpose what to Glorify his name among Egypt and the Hebrew slaves.
Pharoah had freedom of choice, yet no matter which choice he made God's purpose would be fulfilled, his name would be glorified:
If Pharoah would have chosen to let the isrealites go, then God would be glorified, the Pharoah has obeyed the God of Israel.
If he did not choose to let them go, as he did choose, God's name was still glorfied.
God hardned his heart through his word. He gave that word to Moses. God still hardens our hearts through his word, when those who hear are offened, and hate it. Yet it is by their choice just as Pharoah.
You tell me, after reading all of these verses where God declares that all men are evil, how could God look down the corridors of time and see who would "choose" to believe on Him??? And how can you deny that God is the one who chooses who he wishes to save after reading all of these verses in Romans nine??? And please don't say like skinski7 or one of the others do, that it's speaking of nations and not people. That is so dishonest and does such violence to the text. It clearly says, " even us whom He has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles." It is clearly showing that God is not talking about nations, but individuals when He includes both Jews and Gentiles.
Your understanding of predestination and election is faulty because you think it would be unfair of God to choose whomever He wishes to salvation, even though the Bible clearly teaches that all are sinners deserving destruction. If God chose to save some (at a huge cost to Himself) and let the others perish, that is not unfair. God owes us nothing BUT WRATH AND DESTRUCTION, but He does not owe us mercy. He shows His mercy to whomever He wishes out of His grace.
Well, I've tried to show you from the scriptures where you have strayed. I didn't mean to sound haughty by comparing you to others, it's just that too many have come along lately teaching people that they can work for their salvation, and lose their slavation, salvation that Jesus purchased with His own blood for a particular people who can never be plucked out of the Fahter's hand.
I hope you will honestly look at these verses and let them show you the way to God's mercy which is in Christ ALONE.
God bless.
No my understanding of Predestination is knowing it is false doctrine that makes God a repsector of persons and really does not even make sense when you get to the root of it. It is condraticting to God's character, and other passages that clearly show we have freedom of Choice. You might not want to believe that but thats your own rejection.
John 3:16 refutes your belief. "whosoever bleieves in him" if your doctrine is true then John 3:16 is false because it's not whosoever, but who God already chose.
Rom 1:16 is false because the gospel is not the power of God unto salvation, but it is really God's premade choice upon every individual.
When Joshua said "choose this day whom ye will serve" the choice was not really theirs.
II Thess 1:8,9 "in flaming fire taking vengence on them that know not God and obey not the Gospel" Not God is unfair, why take vengence on them, if it was God you chose for them not to be saved. They had no power to accept him, why are they being punished?
Heb 5:9 " he became the author of eternal salavation unto all that obey him", yea only the ones who were chosen, so this passage really isnt for all.
In fact the Bible is not for all if what your saying is true. And Titus 2:11 is a joke, because it says "the grace of God WHICH BRINGS SALVATION HAS APPAERD UNTO ALL MEN"
Yet it cant be the grace of God that brings salvation, but God's predetermined chose on certaian individuals, and therfore this passage means nothing.
I could go on forever, you gert the point, stop making God, his grace, his Sons sacrifice only for limited people, when the Bible says he died for the world, is that true or not?