did Christ retrun in AD 70? Matthew 24
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Did Christ return 70 AD, no He returned 3 days after He died. Remember this... When Mary saw Jesus after He was raised, he said to her... Touch me not for I am not yt ascended to my Father, but go and say to my brethren I ascnd to my Father and your Father.... And then when He came to Thomas He said.... Reach hither thy finger and thrust it in my side.... Jesus obviously alreay went and came from Father. A good Bible study will show all that he even had two bodies at that stage. We know the Holy Spirit is also Christ, so yep Jesus already returned but not in His body we will see him, the one Stephen saw in Acts.
I
cronjecj & 1Still_Waters
You Said: if it were so He would have said "that" generation shall not pass until all.... but He didn't
He said "THIS GENERATION" 2000 years ago.
Problem is the fact that Jesus said "This Generation" and not "That Generation" still works in context with him referrring to a future generation. Especially when you look at all of the overwhelming evidence that proves that he is referring to a future generation.
I already pointed out that the disciples generation was given the sign of Zechariah 9:9 which pointed to Jesus first coming and they totally missed it because he was rejected by the spiritual leaders when he arrived at the temple. This rejection prompted Jesus to say in Matthew 23:39 "For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord." This meant that Jesus would not present himself in this fashion again until such a time that the spiritual leaders of Israel would accept his arrival. That did not happen during the disciples generation, and so far it hasn't happened during ours, so keeping to his word he has not returned to Jerusalem.
The most telling reason of all that proves that what Jesus said in Matthew 24 was not relevant to the disciples generation is found in Acts 1:6.
6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”
This is the disciples basically asking the resurrected Jesus the same question that they asked him in Mathew 24. If all the signs that Jesus gave in Matthew 24 were relevant to the disciples generation, then why did Jesus say in Acts 1:7 that it was none of their business?
Acts 1:7
7 And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.
In other words, Jesus told them that "You have asked a question that is not relevant to your generation." Why didn't Jesus remind them of the signs that he gave in Mathew 24?
So if the question was not relevant to the disciples generation in Acts it was not relevant to their generation in Matthew.
You Said: if it were so He would have said "that" generation shall not pass until all.... but He didn't
He said "THIS GENERATION" 2000 years ago.
Problem is the fact that Jesus said "This Generation" and not "That Generation" still works in context with him referrring to a future generation. Especially when you look at all of the overwhelming evidence that proves that he is referring to a future generation.
I already pointed out that the disciples generation was given the sign of Zechariah 9:9 which pointed to Jesus first coming and they totally missed it because he was rejected by the spiritual leaders when he arrived at the temple. This rejection prompted Jesus to say in Matthew 23:39 "For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord." This meant that Jesus would not present himself in this fashion again until such a time that the spiritual leaders of Israel would accept his arrival. That did not happen during the disciples generation, and so far it hasn't happened during ours, so keeping to his word he has not returned to Jerusalem.
The most telling reason of all that proves that what Jesus said in Matthew 24 was not relevant to the disciples generation is found in Acts 1:6.
6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”
This is the disciples basically asking the resurrected Jesus the same question that they asked him in Mathew 24. If all the signs that Jesus gave in Matthew 24 were relevant to the disciples generation, then why did Jesus say in Acts 1:7 that it was none of their business?
Acts 1:7
7 And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.
In other words, Jesus told them that "You have asked a question that is not relevant to your generation." Why didn't Jesus remind them of the signs that he gave in Mathew 24?
So if the question was not relevant to the disciples generation in Acts it was not relevant to their generation in Matthew.
M
the problem you have however is that the term "this generation" is used 4 times previously iin Matthew in a way that can only refer to the 1st century Jews of Jerusalem. Having spoken so much to the Pharisees in terms of "this generation" Jesus would certainly have differentiated this generation from " that generation". The question about the restoration of Israel is irrelevant because the business of the Christian is the Great Commision but the question in Matt 24 is about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple and for that generation it was certainly relevant....thus Jesus goes into some detail regarding it.
P
There’s catholic doctrine.
There’s protestant doctrine.
There’s the Church of England doctrine.
Then there’s your doctrine.
Religious nonsense, nothing to do with Jesus or the word of God, nothing to do with the spirit of God, nothing to do with being filled with the spirit of God, nothing to do with being quickened by the spirit..
Your Religious nonsense comes under the same spirit of the Catholics the Protestants and the Church England.
Religious dribble
Matt24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto
him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what
shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
I suppose you think this is fulfilled too.
Matt 1313:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Jesus talks about the end of the world not just in Matt24 or is there two ends of the world?
There’s protestant doctrine.
There’s the Church of England doctrine.
Then there’s your doctrine.
Religious nonsense, nothing to do with Jesus or the word of God, nothing to do with the spirit of God, nothing to do with being filled with the spirit of God, nothing to do with being quickened by the spirit..
Your Religious nonsense comes under the same spirit of the Catholics the Protestants and the Church England.
Religious dribble
Matt24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto
him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what
shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
I suppose you think this is fulfilled too.
Matt 1313:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Jesus talks about the end of the world not just in Matt24 or is there two ends of the world?
P
P
1
I think what we have in this thread is crock dispensational theology that says Matthew 24 is about the future coming to restore creation. Then we have heretical hyper-preterists saying that Jesus and the resurrection already happened.
Then you have the voice of truth, you know, me and those who agree with me (Said in sarcasm.), who are saying Matthew 24 was a coming of judgement on Jerusalem in AD 70, and has nothing to do with the future coming to restore creation and raise the dead.
Then you have the voice of truth, you know, me and those who agree with me (Said in sarcasm.), who are saying Matthew 24 was a coming of judgement on Jerusalem in AD 70, and has nothing to do with the future coming to restore creation and raise the dead.
1
WRONG.
They were asking separate questions.
Matthew 24
Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”
3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
Acts 1
6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”
Three questions in Matt 24
1. When will the temple come down? (When will this happen.)
2.Sign of coming. (Seeing just before that and all throughout Matthew he is talking about coming to judge the Jews of that generation, it's clear they're asking about when that judgement would come.)
3.The end of the age. (The end of the Jewish temple worship age. Which sign would be any clearer than the epicenter of the temple being taken down?)
One question in Acts 1.
1. When are you going to restore the kingdom to Israel?
Matthew 24 questions are about the coming judgement on Jerusalem in THEIR generation.
Acts 1 question is about restoring the kingdom.
One is about destruction. One is about restoration.
They are hardly the same question.
They were asking separate questions.
Matthew 24
Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”
3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
Acts 1
6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”
Three questions in Matt 24
1. When will the temple come down? (When will this happen.)
2.Sign of coming. (Seeing just before that and all throughout Matthew he is talking about coming to judge the Jews of that generation, it's clear they're asking about when that judgement would come.)
3.The end of the age. (The end of the Jewish temple worship age. Which sign would be any clearer than the epicenter of the temple being taken down?)
One question in Acts 1.
1. When are you going to restore the kingdom to Israel?
Matthew 24 questions are about the coming judgement on Jerusalem in THEIR generation.
Acts 1 question is about restoring the kingdom.
One is about destruction. One is about restoration.
They are hardly the same question.
P
How’s this one for an accusation
You make the word of God of none effect through your tradition.
13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.Mark7:
And how’s this one for another accusation.
Matt8:12But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
And how’s this one for another accusation.
Matthew 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
You boys need to repent and do the first works and 8Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
For you hinder the children of God in the last day with you rebellion and stubbornness/ witchcraft
1 Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
Don't say you have never been warned.
Matt25:2And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
You make the word of God of none effect through your tradition.
13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.Mark7:
And how’s this one for another accusation.
Matt8:12But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
And how’s this one for another accusation.
Matthew 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
You boys need to repent and do the first works and 8Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
For you hinder the children of God in the last day with you rebellion and stubbornness/ witchcraft
1 Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
Don't say you have never been warned.
Matt25:2And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
P
WRONG.
The questions were about the building and Jesus’s coming at the end of the world.
Then Jesus answer the questions, the building won’t last for ever, then he goes on to say,what will happen at the end of the world.
Take heed that no man deceive you.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
And it will be like in the days of Noah, one shall be taken the other left.
37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
And that is at the end of the world as we know it for us Christians .
The questions were about the building and Jesus’s coming at the end of the world.
Then Jesus answer the questions, the building won’t last for ever, then he goes on to say,what will happen at the end of the world.
Take heed that no man deceive you.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
And it will be like in the days of Noah, one shall be taken the other left.
37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
And that is at the end of the world as we know it for us Christians .
1
Coming on clouds is coming in judgement language. That is how THEY would have understood it. Look again at Isaiah 19 and the coming of judgement on Egypt in the past.
9 The burden against Egypt.
Behold, the Lord rides on a swift cloud,
And will come into Egypt;
The idols of Egypt will totter at His presence,
And the heart of Egypt will melt in its midst.
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As far as the 'angels' gathering the elect. That Greek word is literally 'messengers'.
At the time of the judgement, it freed up the messengers of God to go out further in to the world, preach the message, and get people saved.
When people are saved they are gathered in to the elect.
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As far as one taken, one left.
That is an idiom.
During times of war, the winning side would take the best people of the land, back to their native land.
We see it in Daniel with him and Shadrach, Mesh. Abend.
The best in the land, were taken by the winning side in Jesus time.
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9 The burden against Egypt.
Behold, the Lord rides on a swift cloud,
And will come into Egypt;
The idols of Egypt will totter at His presence,
And the heart of Egypt will melt in its midst.
---------
As far as the 'angels' gathering the elect. That Greek word is literally 'messengers'.
At the time of the judgement, it freed up the messengers of God to go out further in to the world, preach the message, and get people saved.
When people are saved they are gathered in to the elect.
--------------
As far as one taken, one left.
That is an idiom.
During times of war, the winning side would take the best people of the land, back to their native land.
We see it in Daniel with him and Shadrach, Mesh. Abend.
The best in the land, were taken by the winning side in Jesus time.
------------------
P
Coming in the clouds
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
There nothing about judging the Jews in that generation from all the things Jesus spoke about in Matt24.there are 51 verses in matt24 and nothing about judging the Jews in that generation.
There have not been any days like Noah, since the fool in the days of Noah.
Because you would know if that had happened.
37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
The tree has not finished putteth forth leaves yet. Because Jesus is the vine and he is not finished yet
32Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
And THIS gospel has not been preached in all the world yet.
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world
for a witness unto all nations and then shall the end come.
And the end of the world has not happened yet and that’s pretty apparent.
Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
You don’t want it to be true, because you don’t what to go through tribulation and be tried and tested for your faith. So you chose to put prophecy in the past
BUT the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
There nothing about judging the Jews in that generation from all the things Jesus spoke about in Matt24.there are 51 verses in matt24 and nothing about judging the Jews in that generation.
There have not been any days like Noah, since the fool in the days of Noah.
Because you would know if that had happened.
37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
The tree has not finished putteth forth leaves yet. Because Jesus is the vine and he is not finished yet
32Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
And THIS gospel has not been preached in all the world yet.
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world
for a witness unto all nations and then shall the end come.
And the end of the world has not happened yet and that’s pretty apparent.
Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
You don’t want it to be true, because you don’t what to go through tribulation and be tried and tested for your faith. So you chose to put prophecy in the past
BUT the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
A
i like these scriptures...
Acts 7
1 “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you. 52 Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who foretold the coming of the Just One, of whom you now have become the betrayers and murderers, 53 who have received the law by the direction of angels and have not kept it.”
54 When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth. 55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; 58 and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59 And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Acts 7
1 “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you. 52 Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who foretold the coming of the Just One, of whom you now have become the betrayers and murderers, 53 who have received the law by the direction of angels and have not kept it.”
54 When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth. 55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; 58 and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59 And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
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