did Christ retrun in AD 70? Matthew 24

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M

meecha

Guest
#81
And THIS gospel has not been preached in all the world yet.

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world
for a witness unto all nations and then shall the end come.

And the end of the world has not happened yet and that’s pretty apparent.

Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?


You don’t want it to be true, because you don’t what to go through tribulation and be tried and tested for your faith. So you chose to put prophecy in the past

BUT the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
The end of the world has happened Peter ...but you do not understand biblical idiom and hyperbole. The "world" of the Old Testament Jews was coming to an end. The 1st century Jews did not think like you....they did not concieve of the end of the space /time universe..."end of the world" is the end of civilisation; in the case of the 1st century Jews the destruction of the temple and the land is the "end" because their theology cannot cope without a temple based religion....in this way 70AD is the end of the world. You are looking at the bible through the lens of dispensationalism; a relativley modern concept and one you won't find before the middle of the 19th century.
Try to reserve judgement and read Revelation as if it is a prophecy of the fall of Jerusalem. Try reading it in that light and see if it makes sense and then see how many OT references and illusions you find. Then when you find the OT refs see if they relate to the destruction of the first temple by Neba and then see how John shows that this is the fate of the second temple.
The tribulation is a past event. That does not mean that Christians do not suffer tribulation. It does mean that the "great tribulation" is over. You are to concentrate and focus on the Great Commision. Stop exciting yourself over the beast and "the" antichrist. It's history. Paul can say in Rom 1.8

First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world.

Obviously Paul is not saying that the gospel has gone to Australia and Japan. The "world" is the world of the Roman empire. So what Jesus means by world is what Paul means by world....again in Acts 17.6 the disciples

have caused trouble all over the world (and) have now come here,

so the Gospel had gone over the world according to Luke and according to Paul.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#82
BUT the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.[/FONT]
I really don't know why you keep posting this verse, as if it's this mystical, silver bullet verse that debunks everything said.

All that verse means is that prophecy points to Jesus.

It's really not a silver bullet that turns near/soon/at hand/quickly/this generation in to far away/our generation.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#83
Coming in the clouds

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.


There nothing about judging the Jews in that generation from all the things Jesus spoke about in Matt24.there are 51 verses in matt24 and nothing about judging the Jews in that generation.


There have not been any days like Noah, since the fool in the days of Noah.
Because you would know if that had happened.


37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


The tree has not finished putteth forth leaves yet. Because Jesus is the vine and he is not finished yet

32Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

And THIS gospel has not been preached in all the world yet.

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world
for a witness unto all nations and then shall the end come.

And the end of the world has not happened yet and that’s pretty apparent.

Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?


You don’t want it to be true, because you don’t what to go through tribulation and be tried and tested for your faith. So you chose to put prophecy in the past

BUT the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
You're simply not listening to what I'm asserting.

At this point we're just talking passed each other.

I've presented my case. I think at this point. anything else from me to you, is just gonna be an exercise in saying

NUH UH!
 
I

IMINJC

Guest
#84
meecha

You Said: The question about the restoration of Israel is irrelevant because the business of the Christian is the Great Commision but the question in Matt 24 is about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple and for that generation it was certainly relevant....thus Jesus goes into some detail regarding it.

Your wrong about that.... the destruction of Herod's Temple in AD 70 has nothing to do with Jesus response to the disciples question in Matthew 24 and here is why.

Actually Jesus clearly answered the disciples 1st question "When will these things happen?" before it was even asked in Matthew 23:36 when he was rebuking the religious leaders earlier at the Temple. He clearly said to all who were present that these things (the destruction of Herod's Temple) would happen in their generation. A careful study will show that Jesus never addressed the disciples 1st question during the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24, because he had just made himself clear about when this would happen in Matthew 23:36. Why do I say this? Becasuse the disciples didn't ask Jesus for "signs" of the destruction of Herod's Temple, they wanted to know when it would be destroyed and we know that Jesus made that clear in Matthew 23:36. The disciples asked Jesus for "signs" of his coming. Jesus starts in Matthew 24:4 giving them the "signs" that would lead to his second coming, not to the destruction of Herod's Temple. When you look at the main theme of Mattew 24, it is not the destruction of Herod's Temple or the activities of the Roman armies, it is the second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

When Jesus mentions the Temple in Matthew 24:15, this is not Herod's Temple that he is referring to. This is a future Temple that is yet to built in Israel. The Temple in Matthew 23 is not the same Temple in Matthew 24. How do I know this to be a fact? Because Herod's Temple in Matthew 23 and the Temple that Jesus mentions in Matthew 24 are to be left desolate for two entirely different reasons.

Herod's Temple in Mattehw 23 was to be destroyed because of the past and present sins of Jerusalem, which mainly consisted of murdering the prophets that God sent to it, the hypocrisy of its leaders and ultimately the rejection and murder of its Messiah. The Temple that Jesus mentions in Matthew 24 was not to be left desolate because of the hypocrisy of leaders, the killing of leaders, the killing of prophets, or the rejection of the Messiah, but because of an abominable act committed by the "prince" as he is called in the Book of Daniel Chapter 9 (KJV). Herod's Temple was destroyed in AD 70 because of the sinful acts committed by the Jewish nation; the Temple mentioned by Jesus in Matthew 24 will be destroyed because of an abominable act committed by a foreigner.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,404
6,686
113
#85
One more time, No He did not. This question infers Yeshua did not know what He was talking about when He told us how He would return giving us all of the signs, not to mention the wonderful description of His return in Revelation. Every eye will see Him. This question is not proper to ask of those who believe Jesus, not seriously, and surely not as some feigned intellectual endeavor.
 
M

meecha

Guest
#86
Your wrong about that.... How do I know this to be a fact? Because Herod's Temple in Matthew 23 and the Temple that Jesus mentions in Matthew 24 are to be left desolate for two entirely different reasons.

Herod's Temple in Mattehw 23 was to be destroyed because of the past and present sins of Jerusalem, which mainly consisted of murdering the prophets that God sent to it, the hypocrisy of its leaders and ultimately the rejection and murder of its Messiah. The Temple that Jesus mentions in Matthew 24 was not to be left desolate because of the hypocrisy of leaders, the killing of leaders, the killing of prophets, or the rejection of the Messiah, but because of an abominable act committed by the "prince" as he is called in the Book of Daniel Chapter 9 (KJV). Herod's Temple was destroyed in AD 70 because of the sinful acts committed by the Jewish nation; the Temple mentioned by Jesus in Matthew 24 will be destroyed because of an abominable act committed by a foreigner.

here is the passage in question without the verse and chapter divisions. You are of course aware that there are no chapter and verse divisions in the original text.

“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. Look, your house is left to you desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.”
Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”
As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

So I do not misunderstand you IMINJC where exactly do you get from the text that Jesus stops talking about the temple then standing and start talking about a future temple?The text says the disciples "
came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. " Its refers to the temple then standing...where did Jesus take the discussion of that temple to that of a future temple....please can you show this in the text?
 
P

peterT

Guest
#87
It reads like this.

3-Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 -TAKE HEED THAT NO MAN DECEIVE YOU.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40-the one shall be taken, and the other left.

This is about the resurrection after the tribulation, no twisting of scripture no super stretching of scripture no tweaking no embellishing, just the pure word of the lord.


Now let’s have a look at your string theory.


Coming on clouds is coming in judgement language. That is how THEY would have understood it. Look again at Isaiah 19 and the coming of judgement on Egypt in the past.

9 The burden against Egypt.

Behold, the Lord rides on a swift cloud,
And will come into Egypt;
The idols of Egypt will totter at His presence,
And the heart of Egypt will melt in its midst.
---------

As far as the 'angels' gathering the elect. That Greek word is literally 'messengers'.

At the time of the judgement, it freed up the messengers of God to go out further in to the world, preach the message, and get people saved.

When people are saved they are gathered in to the elect.

--------------

As far as one taken, one left.

That is an idiom.

During times of war, the winning side would take the best people of the land, back to their native land.

We see it in Daniel with him and Shadrach, Mesh. Abend.

The best in the land, were taken by the winning side in Jesus time.

------------------

Twisting of scripture, super stretching of scripture, tweaking and embellishing.


It’s not me you are arguing with its Jesus because Jesus is the word.
 
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A

Ariel82

Guest
#88
wait did the guy just say that if you didn't agree with him you weren't arguing with him but Jesus? .... ooooo kaayy.... going back a few pages....
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#89
You're simply not listening to what I'm asserting.

At this point we're just talking passed each other.

I've presented my case. I think at this point. anything else from me to you, is just gonna be an exercise in saying

NUH UH!
hmmm didn't miss much after all.....

just wanted to say:

NUH UH!

would you like a new cup?



at this point the conversation will continue its downward spiral with accusations of not having the Holy Spirit, maybe putting God in a box, or being blinded by Satan and his minions, leading people into sin and other untrue and misquoted and represented beliefs on the subject.

to some people there are only two views, theirs and others. trying to show them the distinction between NOT linking Matthew 24 to the end of the world and Final Judgment and only temporary judgment of Israel and their punishment in fulfillment of scriptures is useless.

they won't understand the reference to how the fall of the temple and Matthew 24 reminds people of this prophecy of Moses:

Deut 31
16 And the Lord said to Moses: “Behold, you will rest with your fathers; and this people will rise and play the harlot with the gods of the foreigners of the land, where they go to be among them, and they will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them. 17 Then My anger shall be aroused against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide My face from them, and they shall be devoured. And many evils and troubles shall befall them, so that they will say in that day, ‘Have not these evils come upon us because our God is not among us?’ 18 And I will surely hide My face in that day because of all the evil which they have done, in that they have turned to other gods.
19 “Now therefore, write down this song for yourselves, and teach it to the children of Israel; put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for Me against the children of Israel. 20 When I have brought them to the land flowing with milk and honey, of which I swore to their fathers, and they have eaten and filled themselves and grown fat, then they will turn to other gods and serve them; and they will provoke Me and break My covenant. 21 Then it shall be, when many evils and troubles have come upon them, that this song will testify against them as a witness; for it will not be forgotten in the mouths of their descendants, for I know the inclination of their behavior today, even before I have brought them to the land of which I swore to give them.”
22 Therefore Moses wrote this song the same day, and taught it to the children of Israel.

Deuteronomy 32

New King James Version (NKJV)

32 “Give ear, O heavens, and I will speak;
And hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.
2 Let my teaching drop as the rain,
My speech distill as the dew,
As raindrops on the tender herb,
And as showers on the grass.
3 For I proclaim the name of the Lord:
Ascribe greatness to our God.
4 He is the Rock, His work is perfect;
For all His ways are justice,
A God of truth and without injustice;
Righteous and upright is He.
5 “They have corrupted themselves;
They are not His children,
Because of their blemish:
A perverse and crooked generation.
6 Do you thus deal with the Lord,
O foolish and unwise people?
Is He not your Father, who bought you?
Has He not made you and established you?

7 “Remember the days of old,
Consider the years of many generations.
Ask your father, and he will show you;
Your elders, and they will tell you:
8 When the Most High divided their inheritance to the nations,
When He separated the sons of Adam,
He set the boundaries of the peoples
According to the number of the children of Israel.
9 For the Lord’s portion is His people;
Jacob is the place of His inheritance.

10 “He found him in a desert land
And in the wasteland, a howling wilderness;
He encircled him, He instructed him,
He kept him as the apple of His eye.
11 As an eagle stirs up its nest,
Hovers over its young,
Spreading out its wings, taking them up,
Carrying them on its wings,
12 So the Lord alone led him,
And there was no foreign god with him.

13 “He made him ride in the heights of the earth,
That he might eat the produce of the fields;
He made him draw honey from the rock,
And oil from the flinty rock;
14 Curds from the cattle, and milk of the flock,
With fat of lambs;
And rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats,
With the choicest wheat;
And you drank wine, the blood of the grapes.

15 “But Jeshurun grew fat and kicked;
You grew fat, you grew thick,
You are obese!
Then he forsook God who made him,
And scornfully esteemed the Rock of his salvation.
16 They provoked Him to jealousy with foreign gods;
With abominations they provoked Him to anger.
17 They sacrificed to demons, not to God,
To gods they did not know,
To new gods, new arrivals
That your fathers did not fear.
18 Of the Rock who begot you, you are unmindful,
And have forgotten the God who fathered you.

19 “And when the Lord saw it, He spurned them,
Because of the provocation of His sons and His daughters.
20 And He said: ‘I will hide My face from them,
I will see what their end will be,
For they are a perverse generation,
Children in whom is no faith.
21 They have provoked Me to jealousy by what is not God;
They have moved Me to anger by their foolish idols.
But I will provoke them to jealousy by those who are not a nation;
I will move them to anger by a foolish nation.
22 For a fire is kindled in My anger,
And shall burn to the lowest hell;
It shall consume the earth with her increase,
And set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

23 ‘I will heap disasters on them;
I will spend My arrows on them.
24 They shall be wasted with hunger,
Devoured by pestilence and bitter destruction;
I will also send against them the teeth of beasts,
With the poison of serpents of the dust.
25 The sword shall destroy outside;
There shall be terror within
For the young man and virgin,
The nursing child with the man of gray hairs.
26 I would have said, “I will dash them in pieces,
I will make the memory of them to cease from among men,”
27 Had I not feared the wrath of the enemy,
Lest their adversaries should misunderstand,
Lest they should say, “Our hand is high;
And it is not the Lord who has done all this.”’

28 “For they are a nation void of counsel,
Nor is there any understanding in them.
29 Oh, that they were wise, that they understood this,
That they would consider their latter end!
30 How could one chase a thousand,
And two put ten thousand to flight,
Unless their Rock had sold them,
And the Lord had surrendered them?
31 For their rock is not like our Rock,
Even our enemies themselves being judges.
32 For their vine is of the vine of Sodom
And of the fields of Gomorrah;
Their grapes are grapes of gall,
Their clusters are bitter.
33 Their wine is the poison of serpents,
And the cruel venom of cobras.

34 ‘Is this not laid up in store with Me,
Sealed up among My treasures?
35 Vengeance is Mine, and recompense;
Their foot shall slip in due time;
For the day of their calamity is at hand,
And the things to come hasten upon them.’

36 “For the Lord will judge His people
And have compassion on His servants,
When He sees that their power is gone,
And there is no one remaining, bond or free.
37 He will say: ‘Where are their gods,
The rock in which they sought refuge?
38 Who ate the fat of their sacrifices,
And drank the wine of their drink offering?
Let them rise and help you,
And be your refuge.

39 ‘Now see that I, even I, am He,
And there is no God besides Me;
I kill and I make alive;
I wound and I heal;
Nor is there any who can deliver from My hand.
40 For I raise My hand to heaven,
And say, “As I live forever,
41 If I whet My glittering sword,
And My hand takes hold on judgment,
I will render vengeance to My enemies,
And repay those who hate Me.
42 I will make My arrows drunk with blood,
And My sword shall devour flesh,
With the blood of the slain and the captives,
From the heads of the leaders of the enemy.”’

43 “Rejoice, O Gentiles, with His people;[a]
For He will avenge the blood of His servants,
And render vengeance to His adversaries;
He will provide atonement for His land and His people.”
How its about the GENERATION that JESUS was born into not any other or how JESUS is the fulfillment of prophecy in scripture or how EVEN JESUS told His disciples that the things written about Him had an end and if they truly understood they would know how the establishment of JESUS rule in HEAVEN affects things on Earth but if they can't understand Earthly things why would they care to hear about heavenly things or be capable of comprehending what is unseen when they don't even grasp the written words before them concerning this world and the KINGDOM of GOD.

PS. I know some people don't like long quotes but its the BIBLE discussion forum, I believe we should read MORE BIBLE and less extra stuff.

Luke 22
35 And He said to them, “When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?”
So they said, “Nothing.”
36 Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. 37 For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: ‘And He was numbered with the transgressors.’[d] For the things concerning Me have an end.”
38 So they said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.”
And He said to them, “It is enough.”

John 9:4
I must work the works of Him who sent Me while it is day; the night is coming when no one can work.
 
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peterT

Guest
#90
The end of the world has happened Peter .
Jesus also spoke about the end of the world in Matt13

47Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
50And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Or are there two ends of the world?

The end of the world has not happened yet.

It has NOT been like the food.

One has NOT been taken yet and the other left yet.

And it’s NOT been the worst it’s ever been since the beginning of the world, and nor ever will be.

Matt24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#91
is there a difference between the KINGDOM of GOD and the KINGDOM of Heaven?
Revelation 12:10
Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

Matthew 7:21
[ I Never Knew You ] “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Matthew 11:12
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force.

Matthew 13
10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”
11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:
‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should[a] heal them.’[b]

16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; 17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
The Parable of the Sower Explained

18 “Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. 23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”
I believe there is and that the BIBLE makes a distinction.

The Kingdom of GOD was established when Jesus ascended into Heaven and cast down Satan from Heaven to the Earth. The Kingdom of Heaven will be established when God finally destroys the old and makes a NEW Heaven and a NEW Earth after the last battle in Revelation 20 after Satan is released from the bottomless pit and then cast in the eternal fire with the Beast and the false Prophet.

The Kingdom of GOD has already been established. JESUS reigns in Heaven NOW. He has fulfilled the prophecies and nailed to the cross our sins and is our Counselor and intercessor, teacher, LORD of Lords, King of Kings, God Almighty.

if you can't understand that then do not rile and spew forth vile words, it only shows the bitterness of your heart.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#92
Revelation 2

New King James Version (NKJV)



8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write,

‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life: 9 “I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
11 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.”’


yeah 1st century folks don't know anything about tribulation or martyrs....:rolleyes:
 
M

meecha

Guest
#93
Jesus also spoke about the end of the world in Matt13

47Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
50And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Or are there two ends of the world?

The end of the world has not happened yet.

It has NOT been like the food.

One has NOT been taken yet and the other left yet.

And it’s NOT been the worst it’s ever been since the beginning of the world, and nor ever will be.

Matt24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
On both occasions ..Matt 13.39 and Matt 24.3 the text says "the end of the age" The word used in 13.39 is aion ie age.....in 24.21 the word is Kosmos ie world. So in answer to your question there is a distinction between end of an age and end of the world. Hope that is helpful.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,404
6,686
113
#94
On both occasions ..Matt 13.39 and Matt 24.3 the text says "the end of the age" The word used in 13.39 is aion ie age.....in 24.21 the word is Kosmos ie world. So in answer to your question there is a distinction between end of an age and end of the world. Hope that is helpful.
It has always been my understanding from the teachings of Yeshua that at the end of the age, what we call time, this world will change in an instant, and there will be a New Heaven and a New Earth. Does not this translate this world will come to an end as we know it? Greek, Hebrew or Swahili, I believe the Word is miraculously maintained by YHWH Himself so all may learn the truth of Yeshua. A good woman once said, "If you seek, God may be found among the pots and pans in your kitchen." I believe I understand this, and I do believe this to be so.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#95
never heard of God being in pots and pan... always thought Jesus said He was God of the LIVING and not the dead.... pretty sure non living MAN made pots and pans don't count either......
 
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meecha

Guest
#96
It has always been my understanding from the teachings of Yeshua that at the end of the age, what we call time, this world will change in an instant, and there will be a New Heaven and a New Earth. Does not this translate this world will come to an end as we know it? Greek, Hebrew or Swahili, I believe the Word is miraculously maintained by YHWH Himself so all may learn the truth of Yeshua. A good woman once said, "If you seek, God may be found among the pots and pans in your kitchen." I believe I understand this, and I do believe this to be so.
Lean not on your own understanding. Learn to use a simple concordance, a lexicon, maybe read some commentaries by biblical scholars...but don't answer me with "your understanding" when I am trying to help people to understand what the Greek text actually says. The end of the age is not the end of the space/time universe.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#97
never heard of God being in pots and pan... always thought Jesus said He was God of the LIVING and not the dead.... pretty sure non living MAN made pots and pans don't count either......
A dear sister reminded me this day of what YHWH spoke through His prophets, having ears yet they do not hear, having eyes yet they do not see............and so it goes, amen. It seems she was being led by the Holy Spirit just for me, how wonderful is the Love of YHWH for His children.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#98
Lean not on your own understanding. Learn to use a simple concordance, a lexicon, maybe read some commentaries by biblical scholars...but don't answer me with "your understanding" when I am trying to help people to understand what the Greek text actually says. The end of the age is not the end of the space/time universe.
It is the understanding given through over 40 years of study, reading in several languages, and hearing others. You should listen, to your elders with some respect, and try listening to all with respect, after all we are one Body in Yeshua. No one gets anything from knowing languages or reading encyclopedias, all true teaching is of the Holy Spirit, and I believe I know what I have stated from the Source, not from some self serving scholar of human intellectual endeavor.

When the time comes to be before our Lord, I hope to be there as a child, because if anyone wishes to approach Him as an adult or a scholar or one who has seized truth, I pity that poor person.

By the way, that over 40 years reference is purely a serving suggestion, I first began reading 62 years ago in Bible School.
 
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meecha

Guest
#99
You are right Jaume ...my reply was a little sharp and I do now note your age...please forgive me:eek:
However I feel your statement here....
No one gets anything from knowing languages or reading encyclopedias, all true teaching is of the Holy Spirit, and I believe I know what I have stated from the Source, not from some self serving scholar of human intellectual endeavor.
is not helpful. Just because someone has devoted their life to the study of God's word for the benefit of you and I does not make them "self serving". Nobody has suggested that all true teaching is NOT of the Holy Spirit. This is errecting a "straw man"...ie it is logically fallacious and ultimately a dishonest argument. ie it is dishonest to persist in a line of argument that has been shown through further clarification to be wrong. Fact is people gain a great deal by understanding the original languages of Scripture because they bring clarity.
In the case in point you have equated the end of the age with the end of the world. Clearly these two ideas can be distinguished and they are distinguished in the Greek. The KJV renders both as "world" but later translations make the distinction. To continue to ignore the original meaning is to wilfully embrace error. If Jesus is meaning the end of the age...then what age does that refer to?
Of course scholarly for scholarly's sake can be a hiinderance but there are many many great and godly men who undertook the study of God's word for His people and His glory and it is our loss if we ignore them.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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Give me the words of a Holy spirit filled person over a worldly "phd" any day of the week.
Acts 4


5And it came to pass on the morrow, that their rulers, and elders, and scribes, 6And Annas the high priest, and Caiaphas, and John, and Alexander, and as many as were of the kindred of the high priest, were gathered together at Jerusalem. 7And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what power, or by what name, have ye done this? 8Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel, 9If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole; 10Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. 11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

13Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.
Glory to Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.
 
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