did Christ retrun in AD 70? Matthew 24

[peterT]

Peter calm down. PLease conduct yourself in a way that befits your standing in Christ. You are very worked up because you are finding that what you have been taught is not necessarily shared by others ....act your age please.
.

That nonsense won’t work with me (meecha)

I am plenty calm, just excited to be in this battle, and root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down that which is wrong and to build, and to plant that which is right.

Just excited to get about my father's business.

I do conduct myself in a way that befits the standing in Christ and his word, way more than you apparently.

It is you that needs to conducts yourself in a way that befits your standing in Christ and his word, meecha

For its not me that teaches religious nonsense and twisting scripture to suit yourself.

For it’s not me that rejects the word of the lord.

For it’s not me that’s being stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears.

For it’s not me that’s tacking away from the words of the book of that prophecy.

Matt24 interpreters itself and it doesn’t need your twist.

And yet you will continue on, “Why” according to the bible it’s because ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

I am plenty calm, just excited to get about my father's business.

 

[peterT]

sigh....lets take out the filth and wash it with a little more scripture....

Yes let’s take away the filth but I don’t think it’s going to help in your case.

Jeremiah 2:22 For though thou wash thee with nitre, and take thee much soap, yet thine iniquity is marked before me, saith the Lord GOD.

So the question is do you believe that JESUS is reigning in Heaven now or if Satan has not yet been cast out Heaven?

What do YOU think was accomplished upon the Cross?

You remind me of the Catholic Church doctrine the protestant Church doctrine and the Church of England doctrine, lukewarm religious nonsense and teachings.

Nothing to do with the spirit of God, Nothing to do with the hole ghost, Nothing to do with the children of God and Nothing to do with the quickening of the spirit.

Rv3:18I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

 

[Ariel82]

John 9:41
Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you say, ‘We see.’ Therefore your sin remains.

I follow my Shepherd's voice not yours. you can call me all sorts of names and tell me how unworthy I am, but I know what God tells me.

He calls me His child. He reigns in Heaven NOW Today. Not in some distant future.

He tells me that Satan is the Accuser of the Brethren and his minions do the same. They have been cast out of Heaven and do seek many to enslave and devour upon this Earth.

The story of Revelation tells of how JESUS defeats the Beast and the False prophet and tosses them in the eternal fire. However Satan is locked up.

No one ever talks about how Satan is then released and deceives the nations once more. No one asks what lies Gog and Magog tell to gather the nation to war again against God and His people...

no its just so much easier to lean upon their own understanding and puff them up with false confidence that they have the future all figured out. so much easier to listen to the soothsayers spin them a tale then to pray and ask God about TODAY.

Hebrews 3:12-14

New King James Version (NKJV)

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,


i'm going back to ignoring unpleasant people who only display their bitterness and pettiness by flinging insults and doubt instead of doing as Jesus commanded which is too correct in love and patience.

I know where I stand in Christ. I am a child learning her Father's will and reading His word and fellowshipping with His children.

Personally I do not want to engage in a discussion with a person who can not hold an intelligent mature discussion about the topic without flinging insults in every other post.

It does not display the Fruits of the Spirit God has taught me to look for in His teachers.

James 3:17
But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy.

I recognize the fact there are many beliefs about what is meant from certain verses and much could be shared and learnt. sometimes we as Christians may not agree on small issues.

However respect and common courtesy should be shared common ground. otherwise I'm just more inclined to ignore your post and talk to people who are ,,,,,,,,,,,peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy.

If they think of me as worst then mud, then I ask they don't bother addressing me in the future.

 

[Ariel82]

As for the eye salve, I have nothing to offer God except what is already His. Why should I buy what God has already freely given?

I have been washed by the blood of the Lamb and I walk because HE leads, if I stand its is by His grace and His power that enables me to do so.

I am nothing without my Lord and Savior.

I do not need others to tell me how little I am in the scheme of things, I have heard it from the world all my life. I need brothers and sisters who speak with God's Spirit to tell me of His love and how Jesus came and died on the cross for us while we were still sinners.

I need to hear how JESUS overcame and how His Holy Spirit is our Intercessor. I need to hear HIS Gospel, not any other.

 

[peterT]

I follow my Shepherd's voice not yours. you can call me all sorts of names and tell me how unworthy I am, but I know what God tells me.

If you did follow the Shepherd's voice you would teach and preach this.
If you did hear the voice of the Shepherd you would hear this.
For this is the voice of the shepherd.

And it reads like this and it doesn’t need your twist.


3-Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 -TAKE HEED THAT NO MAN DECEIVE YOU.


29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40-the one shall be taken, and the other left.

 

[meecha]

As for the eye salve, I have nothing to offer God except what is already His. Why should I buy what God has already freely given?

I have been washed by the blood of the Lamb and I walk because HE leads, if I stand its is by His grace and His power that enables me to do so.

I am nothing without my Lord and Savior.

I do not need others to tell me how little I am in the scheme of things, I have heard it from the world all my life. I need brothers and sisters who speak with God's Spirit to tell me of His love and how Jesus came and died on the cross for us while we were still sinners.

I need to hear how JESUS overcame and how His Holy Spirit is our Intercessor. I need to hear HIS Gospel, not any other.

Ariel...I think we should just leave Peter to his ranting...he doesn't want to answer my questions about the text so let him make a fool of himself.

 

[JaumeJ]

There seems to be a lot of people agreeing and disagreeing with each other here, ignoring the Word. Pay attention to Jesus, Yeshua, and if He teaches anything in plain words, accept them without running to the nearest person who can be coaxed in to believing some cockamamie perversion of His simple and straight forward lesson. If you are among those who do not do this, then you already know I do not refer to you. YHWH bless all who are in Yeshua, and who do hear His teachings, amen.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are right...coming does speak to movement ...it's just that the movement is up rather than down...I don't argue the case that Jesus returned in 70AD....I do argue the case that He came in judgement. After all who else did?

A few things to think of.

1. Jesus did not come in judgment, he came to save, He stated so himself.
2. Dan 7 speaks of a whole list of things. not one event. Also remember what Daniel 7 says when the angel interpreted his vision.

The king will recieve the kingdom for all ages.
All nations will honor and worship him.

neither of these two things have happened yet. Thus these things could not have happened. In 70 AD, rome did not turn and worship Christ as king, as well as all other nations on earth. so these things did not happen in 70 AD.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

sigh....lets take out the filth and wash it with a little more scripture....



Acts 7
51 “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you. 52 Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who foretold the coming of the Just One, of whom you now have become the betrayers and murderers, 53 who have received the law by the direction of angels and have not kept it.”


54 When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth. 55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”


57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; 58 and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59 And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Revelation 12
10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.


So the question is do you believe that JESUS is reigning in Heaven now or if Satan has not yet been cast out Heaven?

What do YOU think was accomplished upon the Cross?

The questions to you.

Is satan still controlling kings and rullers?
Is every nation under the heavens worshiping Christ as king?

as for matt 24. Has the world become so powerful that it could wipe mankind of the face of the earth thus declaring the need to christ to put and end to it or "all flesh" (All means all living things) would be destroyed?

if none of these things are true. we are still awaiting the fulfillment of these prophesies.

 

[meecha]

A few things to think of.

Jesus did not come in judgment, he came to save, He stated so himself

We are not talking about the subject of Jesus' earthly ministry so why say this? ...as if I don't know that Jesus came to save!


Dan 7 speaks of a whole list of things. not one event

Again ...time wasting. I know Dan 7 speaks about a whole list of things but there are no chapters in the original ....you might as well say the Book of Daniel speaks about a whole list of things. I was specifically addressing a particular passage.

The king will recieve the kingdom for all ages.

The King received the kindom at His ascension.... He "came" to the Ancient of Days specifically to receive the kingdom.


All nations will honor and worship him.

This is happening as we speak and has been progressivley happening since Acts 1.8. Just because it is not complete does not mean it is not now happening.

I said the following in response to Hurricaine.

You are right...coming does speak to movement ...it's just that the movement is up rather than down...I don't argue the case that Jesus returned in 70AD....I do argue the case that He came in judgement. After all who else did?

we were talking specifically about Mark 14.62 which says....


“I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

my point was that Jesus means to convey to Caiaphus that when he ( caiaphus and his henchmen) see the occupation of the temple and city by the Roman armies they will understand that Jesus is the Christ...the King who has ascended into heaven and is pouring out His judgement on apostate Israel as He told them in Matt 23 ( Woe unto you etc)...that is the meaning of the phrase "coming in clouds" ...see Is 19.1. In 70AD Jesus "comes" in judgement on apostate Israel. Do you believe 70AD was a judgement on Israel? If so ...who do you think carried it out?

 

[IMINJC]

BECAUSEHEDIED


Great Name By the way....


You Said: Mat 24:15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),

1. The “abomination of desolation” spoken of in this verse refers to the Roman Army.
A. This is confirmed by Luke’s account (Luke 21:20).

That Is incorrect concerning the "abomination of desolation" for two reasons. First reason is the abomination that caused the desolation of Herod's Temple in AD 70 was not the Roman armies surrounding the holy city. Jesus made it very clear in Matthew 23:35-37, that the abomination committed that destroyed Herod's Temple was the past and present sins of Jerusalem which consisted of murdering the prophets that God sent to it and the rejection and murder of it's Messiah. The Roman armies are surrounding the holy city because of the abomination committed, but the presence of the armies is not the abomination within itself.

Secondly, all authority of the "abomination of desolation" was turned over to Daniel by Jesus in Matthew 24:15. which is where Luke got his information from about the armies surrounding the holy city. Luke never says that the armies are the abomination that caused the desolation. Luke defers that opinion to Daniel, if he would follow Jesus instructions as I believe that he did. Read Daniel 9 for yourselves and you will see that the abomination that it speaks of is that an image is placed in the temple and is worshiped. This did not happen during the disciples generation so in order to prove that all these events happened in AD 70, Preterist have to say that the Roman armies standing around the holy city was the abomination, but there is no prophecy anywhere in the Bible that supports that false assumption.

If anyone challenges this opinion I will give more evidence that the Roman armies surrounding the holy city was not the abomination of desolation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

All nations will honor and worship him.

This is happening as we speak and has been progressivley happening since Acts 1.8. Just because it is not complete does not mean it is not now happening.

Thats funny. Which nation is falling on their knees and worshipping God? I don;t know of any, America used to be close, they are now begining to be like the rest of the world. In many nations it is a crime punishable by death to even claim to follow Christ.

Scripture says God will destroy the people who treated his people bad completely. And in doing this the whole world will know he is God, and THEN they will all worship him. This did not happen in 70 AD, and has not happened yet!

I said the following in response to Hurricaine.

You are right...coming does speak to movement ...it's just that the movement is up rather than down...I don't argue the case that Jesus returned in 70AD....I do argue the case that He came in judgement. After all who else did?

Jesus did not come in judgment, It was prophesied by Daniel hundreds of year earlier that rome would destroy the city and temple. God used a nation to punish them, he did not punish them himself. So your point makes no sense.

As I already showed Matt 24 is not about Isreal, it is about the world. Nation will come against nation. Many wars.. not Isreal, the world.

we were talking specifically about Mark 14.62 which says....

“I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

my point was that Jesus means to convey to Caiaphus that when he ( caiaphus and his henchmen) see the occupation of the temple and city by the Roman armies they will understand that Jesus is the Christ...the King who has ascended into heaven and is pouring out His judgement on apostate Israel as He told them in Matt 23 ( Woe unto you etc)...that is the meaning of the phrase "coming in clouds" ...see Is 19.1. In 70AD Jesus "comes" in judgement on apostate Israel. Do you believe 70AD was a judgement on Israel? If so ...who do you think carried it out?

what does this have to do with Matt 24? Matt 24 is about the end of the age and the return of Christ. Christ did not return in AD 70, in judgment or anything else.

In both daniel 9 and matt 24, the signs of the end of the age happened AFTER the destruction of the temple. not before. You have things backwards.

 

[peterT]

Ariel...I think we should just leave Peter to his ranting...he doesn't want to answer my questions about the text so let him make a fool of himself.

And you think you hear from the lord.

Then hear this, for it is the voice of the Lord, just pure scripture no embellishing no tweaking and none of your twisting just straight scripture.

3-Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 -TAKE HEED THAT NO MAN DECEIVE YOU.


29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40-the one shall be taken, and the other left.

It doesn’t get any more pure than that, it’s the pure water of the word and yet you can’t hear his voice. According to the bible His sheep hear his voice.

John 10:26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

I’m afraid it’s you that is ranting and making a fool of yourself for I quoted nothing but scripture unlike you.

that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

That verse just shows you how delusional a man of God can be and think he is in Gods service.

 

[becausehedied]

BECAUSEHEDIED


Great Name By the way....


You Said: Mat 24:15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),

1. The “abomination of desolation” spoken of in this verse refers to the Roman Army.
A. This is confirmed by Luke’s account (Luke 21:20).

That Is incorrect concerning the "abomination of desolation" for two reasons. First reason is the abomination that caused the desolation of Herod's Temple in AD 70 was not the Roman armies surrounding the holy city. Jesus made it very clear in Matthew 23:35-37, that the abomination committed that destroyed Herod's Temple was the past and present sins of Jerusalem which consisted of murdering the prophets that God sent to it and the rejection and murder of it's Messiah. The Roman armies are surrounding the holy city because of the abomination committed, but the presence of the armies is not the abomination within itself.

Secondly, all authority of the "abomination of desolation" was turned over to Daniel by Jesus in Matthew 24:15. which is where Luke got his information from about the armies surrounding the holy city. Luke never says that the armies are the abomination that caused the desolation. Luke defers that opinion to Daniel, if he would follow Jesus instructions as I believe that he did. Read Daniel 9 for yourselves and you will see that the abomination that it speaks of is that an image is placed in the temple and is worshiped. This did not happen during the disciples generation so in order to prove that all these events happened in AD 70, Preterist have to say that the Roman armies standing around the holy city was the abomination, but there is no prophecy anywhere in the Bible that supports that false assumption.

If anyone challenges this opinion I will give more evidence that the Roman armies surrounding the holy city was not the abomination of desolation.

I agree that Jerusalems desolation was brought about by their sins, but they where made desolate by Rome in AD 70.

However, I would like to see your "evidence" that the Roman armies were not what brought the desolation of Jerusalem about...

I would ask you to carefully read Daniel 9 it is speaking of Christ, and could you give the exact verse about the image being setup in the temple.

 

[Ariel82]

Secondly, all authority of the "abomination of desolation" was turned over to Daniel by Jesus in Matthew 24:15. which is where Luke got his information from about the armies surrounding the holy city. Luke never says that the armies are the abomination that caused the desolation. Luke defers that opinion to Daniel, if he would follow Jesus instructions as I believe that he did. Read Daniel 9 for yourselves and you will see that the abomination that it speaks of is that an image is placed in the temple and is worshiped. This did not happen during the disciples generation so in order to prove that all these events happened in AD 70,

really?

Dan 9:27; 11:31; Matt 24:15; Luke 21:20 are specific prophecies that the "abomination of desolation that will make sacrifice cease" in the Jewish temple which was fully fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. But there were two other shadow or anti-typical fulfillments of these same prophecies. One was in 167 BC with Antiochus IV Epiphanes and the other was in 117 AD with the rise of Hadrian to power. Whereas Antiochus merely offered sacrifices to Jupiter in the Jewish Temple, Hadrian built the largest temples of Jupiter in the world in place of the Jewish temple. We know that Hadrian wanted to make himself the object of worship in his Temple to Jupiter in Jerusalem and he set up a statue of himself riding a horse on the Temple mount at the El-Kas fountain. Tuvia Sagiv believes that Hadrian, in the ultimate act of arrogance and insult to the Jews, placed this horse statue in the precise location of where the Holy of Holies stood from the Jewish temple. Jesus words in Matthew 24:15 echo, "Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand)."

The Temple in Jerusalem over the threshing floor which is presently under the Al Kas fountain

 

[meecha]

Thats funny. Which nation is falling on their knees and worshipping God? I don;t know of any, America used to be close, they are now begining to be like the rest of the world. In many nations it is a crime punishable by death to even claim to follow Christ.

Ps 110
The Lord says to my Lord:
“ Sit at My right hand
Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”
2 The Lord will stretch forth Your strong scepter from Zion, saying,
“ Rule in the midst of Your enemie

this is happening now...Jesus is ruling in the midst of His enemies until they are all crushed. But you think Satan is in charge...that is what Walvood and the Dispy crowd teach. The Lord is gathering His elect and crushing His enemies progressively in human history.


Jesus did not come in judgment, It was prophesied by Daniel hundreds of year earlier that rome would destroy the city and temple. God used a nation to punish them, he did not punish them himself. So your point makes no sense.


LOL....If a trumpet is blown in a city will not the people tremble?
If a calamity occurs in a city has not the Lord done it?..Amos 3.6

But when the vine-growers saw him, they reasoned with one another, saying, ‘This is the heir; let us kill him so that the inheritance will be ours.’ 15 So they threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. What, then, will the [e]owner of the vineyard do to them? 16 He will come and destroy these vine-growers and will give the vineyard to others.

HE will COME and destroy these vine growers and give the vineyard to others.

As I already showed Matt 24 is not about Isreal, it is about the world. Nation will come against nation. Many wars.. not Isreal, the world.


you havn't shown...you have merely asserted.

God used a nation to punish them, he did not punish them himself. So your point makes no sense.



deut 28

49 “ The Lord will bring a nation against you from afar, from the end of the earth, as the eagle swoops down, a nation whose language you shall not understand, 50 a nation of fierce countenance who will have no respect for the old, nor show favor to the young. 51 Moreover, it shall eat the [ae]offspring of your herd and the produce of your ground until you are destroyed, who also leaves you no grain, new wine, or oil, nor the increase of your herd or the young of your flock until they have caused you to perish. 52 It shall besiege you in all your [af]towns until your high and fortified walls in which you trusted come down throughout your land, and it shall besiege you in all your [ag]towns throughout your land which the Lord your God has given you. 53 Then you shall eat the [ah]offspring of your own body, the flesh of your sons and of your daughters whom the Lord your God has given you, during the siege and the distress by which your enemy will [ai]oppress you. 54 The man who is [aj]refined and very delicate among you [ak]shall be hostile toward his brother and toward the wife [al]he cherishes and toward the rest of his children who remain, 55 so that he will not give even one of them any of the flesh of his children which he will eat, since he has nothing else left, during the siege and the distress by which your enemy will [am]oppress you in all your [an]towns. 56 The [ao]refined and delicate woman among you, who would not venture to set the sole of her foot on the ground for delicateness and [ap]refinement, [aq]shall be hostile toward the husband [ar]she cherishes and toward her son and daughter, 57 and toward her afterbirth which issues from between her [as]legs and toward her children whom she bears; for she will eat them secretly for lack of anything else, during the siege and the distress by which your enemy will [at]oppress you in your [au]towns.


Now read Josephus and tell me this does not exactly describe Jerusalem in 70AD...who did it grateful? the LORD will bring a nation against you

 

[Ariel82]

I thought Matthew 24:15 referenced Dan 11.31 and Dan 12. 11

Dan. 11
29 “At the appointed time he shall return and go toward the south; but it shall not be like the former or the latter. 30 For ships from Cyprus[i] shall come against him; therefore he shall be grieved, and return in rage against the holy covenant, and do damage.
“So he shall return and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant. 31 And forces[j] shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation. 32 Those who do wickedly against the covenant he shall corrupt with flattery; but the people who know their God shall be strong, and carry out great exploits. 33 And those of the people who understand shall instruct many; yet for many days they shall fall by sword and flame, by captivity and plundering. 34 Now when they fall, they shall be aided with a little help; but many shall join with them by intrigue. 35 And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because it is still for the appointed time.


Luke 22


35 And He said to them, “When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?”
So they said, “Nothing.”
36 Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. 37 For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: ‘And He was numbered with the transgressors.’[d] For the things concerning Me have an end.”
38 So they said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.”
And He said to them, “It is enough.”

by the way most scholars and the text itself date the NT BEFORE 70 AD and the fall of the temple, so why would they speak of it in past tense when for the writers its still future?

 

[Ariel82]

The questions to you.

Is satan still controlling kings and rullers?

he does that in Rev. 20 after he is released as well....... so your question would prove what? that Satan uses the same tactics over and over again?

Is every nation under the heavens worshiping Christ as king?

that would be in Rev. 21 AFTER Satan is defeated a SECOND time. my statement was that JESUS has already defeated Satan by His work on the cross and tossed him out of Heaven, and that is what Matthew 24 is about, not the destruction of this world but the end of an AGE and the beginning of the Kingdom of God where Christ is in Heaven ruling with the saints and Satan has been cast out. Matthew 24 does not talk about binding Satan to the bottomless pit or the casting of the Beast and False prophet into the eternal fire. You are just reading that into the text.

as for matt 24. Has the world become so powerful that it could wipe mankind of the face of the earth thus declaring the need to christ to put and end to it or "all flesh" (All means all living things) would be destroyed?

as evident I don't agree with your interpretation of the text and your insertion of your beliefs into Matt 24.

if none of these things are true. we are still awaiting the fulfillment of these prophesies.

none of the strawmen you have built are true, we agree upon that.

However, Matt 24 has been fulfilled within the lives of the people in the generation JESUS was talking to because Jesus said it would be so. I trust Jesus statement over any man.

Matthew 24 talks about gather the elect from one end of HEAVEN to another, not Earth...

people insert Earth because that is what they want it to say...

31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other

This is History, has already happened. NOT a future event:

Revelation 12
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

 

[Hurricane1]

cronjecj

First of all we know that the Lord didn't return in AD 70. Those who subscribe to this false doctrine explain some type of figurative return in heaven that happened in AD 70. We all know his return is not figurative.

ACTS 1:11
who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

Secondly, Matthew 24:34.... 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled

Jesus is referring to an unknown future generation that sees these signs come to pass in their life time. "This Generation" "What Generation?"..."The Generation that sees these events come to pass."

And besides, the disciples generation totally missed the sign that was given to it's generation of the first coming of Christ.

Zechariah 9:9
Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

And when it happened....

Luke 19:38-40
“ ‘Blessed is the King who comes in the name of the Lord!’[d]
Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!”

39 And some of the Pharisees called to Him from the crowd, “Teacher, rebuke Your disciples.”
40 But He answered and said to them, “I tell you that if these should keep silent, the stones would immediately cry out.”

The signs of Jesus first coming was given to the disciples generation to recognize but they missed it so Jesus called it an evil generation. The signs that would signal his return was meant for an unknown future generation to recognize...hopefully it wont be as blind as the disciples generation was.

Very well said!

 

[1still_waters]

I love how people approach some of these texts and Gentile it all up, not even thinking about the OT stuff the original readers would have thought of when Jesus made certain references..you know like 'coming on the clouds' *cough* Isaiah 19:1 *cough*

When we just jump in to this without regarding the original hearers frame of reference we can automatically think coming on clouds means jockeying on to a cloud and saddling it up for a good ride....

*cough* Isaiah 19:1*cough*