Is keeping the Commandments and Laws of God Needed for Eternal Life?

[Eccl12and13]

Works of the law included obeying the law. Which if you do not think takes work, you are severely misunderstanding our human nature.

When Paul used the phrase 'works and deeds of the law' he was ONLY speaking about the laws of the Levites and animal sacrifice.

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[eternally-gratefull]

Do Christians commit willful sins?

It's a pretty simple question.


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already answered. All sin is willfull. Christians can not commit unwillful sin, unless they do not know it is sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

When Paul used the phrase 'works and deeds of the law' he was ONLY speaking about the laws of the Levites and animal sacrifice.

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wrong

He also spoke of circumcision (galations) he spoke of other aspects of the law. He also spoke of the commands.

Romans 7 tells us the law is the command. We are freed from THIS LAW. when we are born again.

and what about romans 4? What law was there when Paul said Abraham was not found by works?

And what about titus 3? Was he talking about law when he said not by ANY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS we have done? you know that means ANY good deed do you not? has nothing to do with animal sacrifice.

 

[Shilo]

Matthew 5:18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not smallest detail , will pass from the Law until all is accomplished

Luke 16:17 It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

 

[Eccl12and13]

already answered. All sin is willfull. Christians can not commit unwillful sin, unless they do not know it is sin.

So will God continue to allow a Christian to commit willful sin with no consequences? Let's read what God's word tells us....

Heb.10
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

If a person....ANY person, continues to commit a sin that they know is wrong...they risk dying the second death. Now at what point will Jesus stop pleading our case to the Father...and at what time will the Father stop accepting Christ plea for us...no one knows that but the Father.

But at some point God WILL stop accepting the plea's of our High Priest and we will be judged on those things that we did which we knew wrong wrong in God's eyes.

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[Eccl12and13]

wrong

He also spoke of circumcision (galations) he spoke of other aspects of the law. He also spoke of the commands.

Romans 7 tells us the law is the command. We are freed from THIS LAW. when we are born again.

and what about romans 4? What law was there when Paul said Abraham was not found by works?

And what about titus 3? Was he talking about law when he said not by ANY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS we have done? you know that means ANY good deed do you not? has nothing to do with animal sacrifice.

As I said....at times Paul would not always use the terms 'works and deeds of the law' when he was in fact speaking about animal sacrifice. Some times he would just use the term 'the law' and was also speaking about animal sacrifice. Then there were other times when he would use the term 'law' and was speaking about the rest of God's laws that men are to do their best to keep. But each and every time he did use the phrase 'works and deeds of the law' he was always speaking about the laws of animal sacrifice.


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[eternally-gratefull]

So will God continue to allow a Christian to commit willful sin with no consequences? Let's read what God's word tells us....

Heb.10
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

If a person....ANY person, continues to commit a sin that they know is wrong...they risk dying the second death. Now at what point will Jesus stop pleading our case to the Father...and at what time will the Father stop accepting Christ plea for us...no one knows that but the Father.

But at some point God WILL stop accepting the plea's of our High Priest and we will be judged on those things that we did which we knew wrong wrong in God's eyes.

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lol.

1. We can not sin unwillfully
2. We will not stop sin.
3. As paul said, When I sin it is not I who sins, but the flesh which is in me. even though He knows it is sin, because if he did not know it was sin, his spirit would not have wanted to do it.
4. As for our high priest. Unlike the leviticus high priest. who sacrificed once a year for everyone, We have a high priest who sits at the right hand of God making intercession for us every day,

finally. As David told God. You knew me intimately before I was even born. My whole life was liad out in front of you. (in other words, you knew everything I would think say and do) from the time I was born till the time I died.

So when you go preaching what you preach, you say God saved you KNOWING everything you would ever do in the first place. and then later decided, even though HE KNEW YOU WERE GOING TO DO IT. And saved you inspite of knowing this. he is going to somehow take his salvation back?

Try to learn who God is, and stop trying to earn your salvation by your own works of righteousness.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As I said....at times Paul would not always use the terms 'works and deeds of the law' when he was in fact speaking about animal sacrifice. Some times he would just use the term 'the law' and was also speaking about animal sacrifice. Then there were other times when he would use the term 'law' and was speaking about the rest of God's laws that men are to do their best to keep. But each and every time he did use the phrase 'works and deeds of the law' he was always speaking about the laws of animal sacrifice.


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1. ALot of assumptions there not based on fact.

2. Our doctrines do not come off of what people think Paul meant, but by what God thinks he meant

3. You can't PROVE anything you just said, thus they are assumptions.

 

[Eccl12and13]

He died the moment he sinned. It is spiritual death, Which all men are born dead to god.

Jesus died spiritually on the cross. Spiritual death is separation from God. God turns his back and forsakes us because he can not look upon sin.

On the cross. Jesus proved it. "my God My God why has though forsaken (departed from me) Jesus died spiritually before he died physically.

The curse that came upon Adam the moment he broke God's law was the curse that was put upon ALL men because of sin. That curse was to die the second death. The death that would not allow access to eternal life. The curse that denied all of mankind salvation.

That was the death Jesus came to save us from. That was the salvation that was needed. The shedding of His blood allowed us the chance to receive salvation once again. Before the shedding of Christ blood...mankind had no chance of salvation.

Rev.2
[11] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Rev.20
[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


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[newcovenantchristian]

Now...to answer your question;

Sometimes Paul does NOT use the phrase 'works or deeds' of the law when he is in fact speaking of them. Sometimes he just says, 'the law'. The challenge to to determine WHICH law Paul is speaking about.



Rom.7
[4] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Now knowing that the blood of Christ is what caused the laws of animal sacrifice to cease...which law is it that we have become dead to "...by the body of Christ..."? The law that was removed with the shedding of Christ blood...the laws of the Levites and animal sacrifice. Let's continue...

[5] For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Now Paul tells us of laws that stirred up sin. He now speaks of a law that not only stirred up sin but made sin even more sinful by the knowledge of it. Let's confirm this by reading a little further down in the chapter...

[8] But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Here Paul is not speaking about the law of the Levites and the killing of animals. Here Paul is just talking about the rest of God's commandments. Paul tells us that before he knew what God's laws were...sin was dead to him. He had no idea what he was doing was wrong in the eyes of God. Let's read more...

[9] For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Paul tells us that he was alive once. How? By doing what he wanted to do...have a great time. But what happened when he read the law? Let's let him tell us....

[7] What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Once Paul found out that it was wrong to covet...that old man that coveted had to die....and that is why he said, "...but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died."

Now what law was it that brought the knowledge of sin to Paul? Was it the set of laws for animal sacrifice? No! Those laws did not give Paul the knowledge of sin. It was God's other laws; do not steal, lie, kill, covet obey father and mother that told Paul what was right and wrong.

So no! The laws of animal sacrifice did not bring up, or arouse sinful passions in Paul. It was God's other commandment that were responsible for that.

But which law was it that we became dead to because of the shedding of the blood of Christ?

The laws of the Levites and animal sacrifice;

"...ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ..."

For it was the body or, shedding of His blood, that caused us to be dead to the laws of the killing of animals.



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Sorry but that's hopeless
Paul said he died to the law because the sinful passions in him/us are aroused by the law. You say the only law we die to is burnt offerings. So that's the only law Paul could have died to. Well if he died to the law of burnt offerings that must be what caused the sinful passions in him. I want you to tell me how this happened
And frankly your exegesis is awful, but the internet affords you the oppotunity to preach
it, which is what methinks you're here to do, teach others. Well my prayer is that people will look to their own ministers who I am sure can answer their questions.

If you really want truth there's only one way you can get it, by totally relying on the Holy Spirit for truth, I know you do not do that, and that is why you cannot understand correctly the scripture you are quoting, for it is the spirit who shows us spiritual truth, it is the only way

 

[Eccl12and13]

lol.

1. We can not sin unwillfully

So when you go preaching what you preach, you say God saved you KNOWING everything you would ever do in the first place. and then later decided, even though HE KNEW YOU WERE GOING TO DO IT. And saved you inspite of knowing this. he is going to somehow take his salvation back?

God's salvation is always there for us to accept. If it is lost it will be by our doing! But that's another lesson.



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[Eccl12and13]

Just want to confirm; You do not believe that keeping God's laws and commandments are needed to receive eternal life! Would that be correct?



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[eternally-gratefull]

The curse that came upon Adam the moment he broke God's law was the curse that was put upon ALL men because of sin. That curse was to die the second death.

No. where do you get this stuff? The second death will not happen until after the great white throne, it happens to those who reject Christ. because they were tried for their works (not sin) and left standing condemned because their work did not add up.

The death that would not allow access to eternal life. The curse that denied all of mankind salvation.

This is not the second death, This is spiritual death, The first death according to scripture is physical death, which is a result of sin, not the punishment of sin. Man you need to study more!

That was the death Jesus came to save us from. That was the salvation that was needed. The shedding of His blood allowed us the chance to receive salvation once again. Before the shedding of Christ blood...mankind had no chance of salvation.

Agree. but this has nothing to do with the first death. I can not be made alive in Christ if I am already alive, I must be dead to be made alive, this is spiritual death. not the second death.

Rev.2
[11] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Rev.20
[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


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and how do we do this? By being good? by not breaking the law? byu doing religious sacrifice?

We do it by faith in Christ. We were justified (declared righteous, or innocent) by faith in the blood of Christ, not faith in us being good enough to earn it.

 

[Eccl12and13]

[/B][/COLOR]

Just want to confirm; You do not believe that keeping God's laws and commandments are needed to receive eternal life! Would that be correct?



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[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry but that's hopeless
Paul said he died to the law because the sinful passions in him/us are aroused by the law. You say the only law we die to is burnt offerings. So that's the only law Paul could have died to. Well if he died to the law of burnt offerings that must be what caused the sinful passions in him. I want you to tell me how this happened
And frankly your exegesis is awful, but the internet affords you the oppotunity to preach
it, which is what methinks you're here to do, teach others. Well my prayer is that people will look to their own ministers who I am sure can answer their questions.

If you really want truth there's only one way you can get it, by totally relying on the Holy Spirit for truth, I know you do not do that, and that is why you cannot understand correctly the scripture you are quoting, for it is the spirit who shows us spiritual truth, it is the only way

I wonder if he is starting a new religion or church. Never heard the stuff he is preaching before. and I have heard most every strain of doctrine out there.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Just want to confirm; You do not believe that keeping God's laws and commandments are needed to receive eternal life! Would that be correct?
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that would be correct. Because unless I keep Gods law 100 % from the time I was born until the time I die. I have failed to reach the mark as required by the laws and commandments.

Oh by the way, I would still not get to heaven, for I have adam's sin to deal with. I was born dead. so even if I was perfect. I would still be lost.

I am amazed you think you could be righteous enough to even fathom being right with God.

I obey Gods commands because I know Gods is a just God and he wants me to not to say know, but for my own benefit. Not to get saved. That is what the pharisees did, and God shut them down, like he will your faulty Gospel

 

[Eccl12and13]

No. where do you get this stuff? The second death will not happen until after the great white throne, it happens to those who reject Christ. because they were tried for their works (not sin) and left standing condemned because their work did not add up. [/B][/COLOR]

The curse of the second death became upon all of mankind because of sin.

The first death according to scripture is physical death, which is a result of sin, not the punishment of sin.

And what is the punishment for breaking God's laws?



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[eternally-gratefull]

God's salvation is always there for us to accept. If it is lost it will be by our doing! But that's another lesson.
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Here is where you are in error. If I can lose salvaion by my own doing, I must merit salvation in some way, which means it is not a gospel of grace. nut a gospel of merit.

I was saved because of What Christ did when I was his enemy and could do no good.

I was saved according to his promise of eternal life, and as paul said, he not only can't lie, he promised it before time began.

I will continue to be saved by what Christ did, and what he promised, no matter what I do. I will never stop sinning, and I will grow and sin less. But if he saved me when I was a most evil sinner that could do no good. He will not take it back, especially since I can never get to the point of sin I was when I first was saved.

 

[Eccl12and13]

that would be correct. Because unless I keep Gods law 100 % from the time I was born until the time I die. I have failed to reach the mark as required by the laws and commandments.

Oh by the way, I would still not get to heaven, for I have adam's sin to deal with. I was born dead. so even if I was perfect. I would still be lost.

So it was the actions of Adam, being him breaking God's law, that caused you to be lost!


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[eternally-gratefull]

The curse of the second death became upon all of mankind because of sin.

No, the curse of spiritual death did, If the curse of the second death was given to all, we have no hope. Christ did not die the second death, so his sacrifice would be insufficient. Again do you study? more importantly do you think?

And what is the punishment for breaking God's laws?
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what sin did Christ not die for? for that is the only sin which could cause me to die again.