What was the LAW that was added?

Grandpa · Nov 4, 2012

But once a Christian has accepted and come to Christ are they not to still KEEP those same laws? Let's read what Paul tells those that DID come to Christ. Let's read if he told them God's laws were no longer for them once they accepted and came to Christ.

1 Cor.6
[9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
[11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

So those that Paul is speaking to are those that as he called them, "...such were some of you...". But then he tells us that they, "...are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.". So according to your claim, these have no need to be under God's laws.

But what does Paul tell them next? Let's read.....

[18] Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that commiteth fornication sinneth against his own body.
1 Cor.7
[2] Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

Paul tells those that 'WERE' sinners and 'ARE WASHED' and 'ARE SANCTIFIED' and 'ARE JUSTIFIED' to STILL keep God's commandment of not to fornicate!

Now why would Paul tell Christians, who YOU claim the law is no longer for, NOT to fornicate?

Let's read what God tells us what will happen if those that decided to accept and following His should stop keeping His commandments;

Ezek.18
[24] But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
[25] Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
[26] When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

I would be very careful with what you post.

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

You claim,

But that goes against what God's word tells us.

God's laws are for ALL of mankind, whether you are a sinner are a Christian, ALL are to keep the laws of God.

.

Didn't I just go over this with feedm3???

I am not telling anyone that they can go ahead and break God's Law.

What I am saying is that only those who Abide in Christ are following God's will and obeying His commands.

You can only obey by the spirit, and that is a gift.

The Lord is amazing and He gives us the things we ask that are according to His will. Wisdom and Knowledge of Him are some of these things...

Eccl12and13 · Nov 4, 2012

Grandpa said:

So which is it? Those reading this post have read this from you,

And now the following,

Now you are saying that ONLY those that are following Christ are keeping God's laws.

First you claim that God's laws were NOT for the Christian, then you claim that God's laws are ONLY kept by those that are following Christ!

So again I ask.....which have you decided upon this time? Are God's laws to be kept by ALL of mankind, or are they only for those that have come to believe and accept Christ?

Do you even know which side you stand on this issue...or do you change depending upon which scriptures disproves your position?

I'm sure those reading would like to know!

.

Eccl12and13 · Nov 4, 2012

Grandpa said:

Have you at least considered reading the posts I have concerning the topic of the law that was added? Here they are below;

This is the Law that God Added to His Other Laws. Part 1
This is the Law that God Added to His Other Laws. Part 2

.

feedm3 · Nov 4, 2012

Eccl12and13 said:

This is why I stopped talking with him. He is in a flat out contradiction, which is fine, it can happen to us all if were not careful.

But when we are unwilling to acknowledge it, not willing to revise, then how can the discussion go any further?

megaman125 · Nov 4, 2012

feedm3 said:

Welcome to the reasons I stoped talking with him in another topic. His teaching was proven false and contradictory multiple times, and rather than actually address any of the holes that were exposed, he ignored them/brushed them aside while continually trying to force his teachings onto me.

Grandpa · Nov 5, 2012

Eccl12and13 said:

I see why you three are confused. You see this as an either/or situation.

The Law was added because of transgression. Its further explained that the Law is for transgressors.

Saved Christians are no longer transgressors. They have been forgiven and cleansed by the Blood of Jesus. The Lord has caused their spirit to be alive and follow after Him.

The Law is not for saved Christians because they are the only ones that keep it. The Law is for transgressors. Among these are the people that point to the Law to keep it in their flesh. Like Judaizers, legalists and now these other folks who seek to 'exchange' the 10 commandments with the 'commands' of Jesus.

I thought all those bible passages that I posted were explaining this but I guess you guys don't read those...

The saved Christian is under Grace, not Law. You people automatically think when someone posts that that it means the Christian can sin any old way he wants. That's not what it means. It means obedience has been given as a gift, by grace, along with many other gifts, including Salvation. These are spiritual gifts given when a christian is born again.

1 Timothy 1:5-7
5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

Romans 7
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

At least skim the bible passages this time...

I hope its starting to make sense to you three...

Grandpa · Nov 5, 2012

feedm3 said:

I know how frustrating I am to the Judaizers and legalists. They are the only ones who stop talking to me.

Its because all I do is point to the grace of the Lord. This is how we are saved, this is how we receive everything. If you forget this, even for a moment, you are walking in the strength of your own flesh and this starts to cause lots of problems.

I hope you can at least read the bible passages I posted if nothing else...

eternally-gratefull · Nov 5, 2012

Grandpa said:

This is the very cruxt of your misunderstanding.

Jesus was showing us that the 10 commandments weren't designed for you to look good in church and then lust in your heart all you wanted as long as it was towards an unmarried person.

Jesus was showing us that God's perfect Law is designed to aim at sin right where it resides, in the heart.

Jesus is not giving you a new law. He is magnifying the 10 commandments so you will better be able to see the problem of sin.

Jesus did not give new laws. Jesus explained the Laws that were already in place. He magnified and purified these laws so we could understand.

Matthew 5:17-20
17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus then magnifies the 10 commandments, showing their original purpose and intent, and shows us what is more righteous than what the Pharisees and scribes adhered to. (Just keep reading Matthew 5:21-48)

I don't know what you are trying to say here, exactly, but I haven't changed my position at all. I've been trying to explain this to you several different ways so you can understand but you appear to be stuck.

I keep explaining to you in hopes that if anyone else adheres to what you do, they may be able to see what I am showing them.

1 Timothy 1:9-11
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

The Law is not for the Christian, who has come to Christ and been born again of the spirit and saved. The Law is for everyone else.

Galatians 3:23-26
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

When we come to Christ by faith there is a conversion. We are born again of the Spirit. He gives us Salvation. He causes us to walk after His statutes by producing spiritual fruit in our lives.

Galatians 5:22-24
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

I think only the Lord Jesus can show us these things. If you doubt them, go directly to Him and ask for wisdom and understanding.

If you misunderstand what Jesus is teaching you place yourself back under Law. You think you are exchanging the 10 for "Jesus Commands" but you aren't, you are placing yourself under law. Same as what the Judaizers and legalists do. It must be a pretty good trick because I see a lot falling into this trap of unbelief.

he does not get it. He is stuck on Adultery, when God in fact was trying to show them that althought they may not have commit ed the physical act of fornication, that if we even look at a woman with lust (has any man NOT DONE THIS AT LEAST ONE TIME) You have committed the same sin, even though you did not do the physical act.

The pharisees were proud of the fact they did not commit these overt acts. Jesus was putting them in their place. You might not do it in the open, but in the privacy of your mine, even you are guilty of the law.

eternally-gratefull · Nov 5, 2012

megaman125 said:

lol. You guys make me laugh. You exposed what? You did not want to expose anything, what you want to do is shove your belief system down everyones throat. You continue to say we believe stuff we never say, you continue to say this doctrine teaches this (when it does not) you refuse to answer some questions, but instead go off on side streets.

I am here to discuss Gods word, if you want to discuss. Feel free. but when someone ocmes in here with a blatently false idiology (such as the levitical priests is a law which was added) I am sorry, but why keep going on with him?

what amazes me, is since he believes as you all do, YOU DID NOT EXPOSE HIM WITH THIS FALSE THING.

which proves one thing. Unlike abiding and I, which agree 100 % with the gospel. we do not blindly just let each other go when we see something we disagree with. just so we can be blindly following each other no matter what. We discuss our differences with love.

It is obvious some in here do not do this. They will stand by each other 100 %, even if one is wrong.

RichardofTruth · Nov 5, 2012

Eccl12and13 said:

Peter says that Pauls writings are very good.

2 Pet 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2 Pet 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2 Pet 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

notice how Apostle Peter warned YOU that you would be led astray by the councils of the wicked and you should go and read Pauls's writings as inspired...

1 Th 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

God did not give anyone a ministry to tear down the Apostle Paul, that is for sure.

Credibility for this thread is absolute zero. I wont be back.

Repent (change your mind)

feedm3 · Nov 5, 2012

Grandpa said:

You have 3 people trying to show you your in a contradiction. If you want to pretend your not, then get frustrated and call names because you are, then be my guest.

EG and will "like" anything you say, even if it makes no sense, so go for it.

EG your just glad your not the only on here who cant teach what they believe without a paradox, you two should stay close.

feedm3 · Nov 5, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

LOL! Look I made a friend, I will say cool things and he will like my posts....How old are you for real?

eternally-gratefull · Nov 5, 2012

feedm3 said:

You have 3 or more people trying to show you your contradiction. And this proves what? man you have no clue how to discuss the word of God do you. You thinki because 3 people think they have proves us in contradiction it makes it so??

Oh you mean like you liked one guys post even though he was in error. And I know even you do not agree??

This is real christianlike (rolls eyes)

eternally-gratefull · Nov 5, 2012

feedm3 said:

yeah, you love posting half a persons post don't you? Don;t you ever get sick of your own pride and arrogance??

feedm3 · Nov 5, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

Please show: where what when something!

Here is yours.

1. If you live in sin and do not show a changed life you were never saved
2. If a Christian liven in sin God will bring him back to the faith.
3. It is impossible for a Christian to live in sin because John said so
4. It is impossible for YOU to ever live in sin

All these cant be true. Which is it? Keep running from them

(rolles eyes, puts hands over ears, continues to pretend)

feedm3 · Nov 5, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

feedm3 said:

Just sick of hearing you put everyone down because they dont want to believe we can continue to sin and receive a reward for doing so.

eternally-gratefull · Nov 5, 2012

feedm3 said:

eternally-gratefull said:

And I am sick of you spreading a works based Gospel, and ignoring John when he says quite clearly those born of God can not live in sin. and that salvation is not a gift of God, but some reward earned by our good deeds.

feedm3 · Nov 5, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

feedm3 said:

If you feel like talking so much, take the time to clear these up:

1. If you live in sin and do not show a changed life you were never saved
2. If a Christian liven in sin God will bring him back to the faith.
3. It is impossible for a Christian to live in sin because John said so
4. It is impossible for YOU to ever live in sin

All these cant be true. AGAIN Which is it?

eternally-gratefull · Nov 5, 2012

feedm3 said:

yes, Because these people did not have any works, which proved their faith was dead. no faith equals no salvation.

2. If a Christian liven in sin God will bring him back to the faith.

Click to expand...

a christian can not live in sin, this this point is invalid

6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

4. It is impossible for YOU to ever live in sin

Click to expand...

I have been born of God, and I have his spirit in me, thus i can't live in sin, as John made quite clear. (see point 3)

what would I be running from? Your argument is with John, not me.

your first third and fourth point all agree with scripture. Your second point is in error.l and I have never stated it. thus is an invalid point.

you want to see contradiction when their arn't any, because it is all you have.

feedm3 · Nov 5, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

feedm3 said:

So then, you beleive it is by works if faith is real or dead.

So it does not matter if the person was never saved, or lost his salvation, that is not the real argument.

The arugemnt is, can one get to heaven having no works, being disobedient.

You say NO! HE has dead faith. Therefore you MUST believe that works are essential to salvation. therefore you do not believe in faith alone, as in belief only.

So then it is by God's grace + if we have works or not if we are saved in the end.

If not then why not?

So then your saying you no longer believe that if a Christian returns to a life of sin, God will bring him back? Those were your words not mine.

Or are you saying if he begins a life of sin, it is not really sin anymore?

Or are you saying if he does so he was never saved?

Yes it means he is forbidden, not allowed, does not mean he cannot because it is impossible, again that would mean no freewill.

SO then you CANNOT make the CHOICE to start sinning.

IF it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to make that CHOICE then when we become Christians we lose freewill - Correct?
If not explain how not be able to make a choice is still freewill.

This always gets you nowhere. My argument is NOT with John, I believe John, we cannot live in sin and go to heaven.

MY ARGUMENT IS WITH YOUR INTERPRETATION OF JOHN you know that, who are you trying to fool with this who argument with John?

You have never stated that if a Christian returns to a life of sin, God will make his life so miserable he will return to the faith? If I show you that you said will you then admit it? Or will you at least say you dont ebleve that anymore? This is why it's so hard to talk to you, your flip flopping in your views.

No, I think about what you say, and I cant ignore the HUGE contradictions you make, and I will not ignore them.

What was the LAW that was added?

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