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This has turned out to be quite a thread.
Ladies and Gents, please don't fret this.
The submission to husband is temporary, so that the woman can search primarily the identity of the church.
The role of man is so that he can search primarily the identity of the creator.
Both are great responsibilities. The "curses" are lifted in paradise.
Have you considered that you were made female because your spirit is already inclined to know the role of the creator? You know what kind of husband/creator you/church wants. Study the church.
Have you considered that you were made male because your spirit is already inclined to know the role of the church? You know what kind of wife/church you/He wants. Study Him.
Each of us was given a study guide for the test we're most likely to fail.
Ladies and Gents, please don't fret this.
The submission to husband is temporary, so that the woman can search primarily the identity of the church.
The role of man is so that he can search primarily the identity of the creator.
Both are great responsibilities. The "curses" are lifted in paradise.
Have you considered that you were made female because your spirit is already inclined to know the role of the creator? You know what kind of husband/creator you/church wants. Study the church.
Have you considered that you were made male because your spirit is already inclined to know the role of the church? You know what kind of wife/church you/He wants. Study Him.
Each of us was given a study guide for the test we're most likely to fail.
L
I'm not 100% studied up on this subject.
Notice that Paul said "I do not permit..." I believe this was a cultural issue. This was Paul writing what he would allow. We know in 1 Corith 14:34-35 Paul wrote to stop the abuse of the spiritual gifts within the Corinth Church.
1 Co 14:34 Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says.
1Co 14:35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.
I have never been in a church anywhere where women kept silent in the church, nor was it considered shameful for a woman to speak in church.
Notice that Paul said "I do not permit..." I believe this was a cultural issue. This was Paul writing what he would allow. We know in 1 Corith 14:34-35 Paul wrote to stop the abuse of the spiritual gifts within the Corinth Church.
1 Co 14:34 Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says.
1Co 14:35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.
I have never been in a church anywhere where women kept silent in the church, nor was it considered shameful for a woman to speak in church.
It was NOT a "cultural issue". The rule was upheld in "all churches" (v.33). Paul just kept in line with what the law says (as quoted in the scripture you gave above, emphasis added).
Women may well share the word of God with non-believers and even be used to correct the erring (and of course teach other women). That's all fine. They are not to be ordained to any office however.
Take a look at church history and see when and where women started to be ordained.
Women may well share the word of God with non-believers and even be used to correct the erring (and of course teach other women). That's all fine. They are not to be ordained to any office however.
Take a look at church history and see when and where women started to be ordained.
Three. Euodia, Syntyche, Clement.
Php 4:2 I entreat Euodia and I entreat Syntyche to agree in the Lord. Yes, I ask you also, true companion, help these women, who have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.
There are 188 named Women in the Bible, and a host of others left unnamed, identify prominent queens, prophetesses, judges, and military leaders, and also a multitude of women who both paved the way for the founding of Christianity and preached its message. Some, such as the mortal mother of Jesus of Nazareth, have been considered more than mere mortals, while others have been virtually ignored in their faith and good deeds. Many women of the Bible proved themselves more than equal to the challenges and trials of their day. Many were considered touched by the hand of God and were full of faith, determination, and courage that helped them to overcome the adversity of the prejudiced era in which they lived.
(I forget the source)
.
Php 4:2 I entreat Euodia and I entreat Syntyche to agree in the Lord. Yes, I ask you also, true companion, help these women, who have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.
There are 188 named Women in the Bible, and a host of others left unnamed, identify prominent queens, prophetesses, judges, and military leaders, and also a multitude of women who both paved the way for the founding of Christianity and preached its message. Some, such as the mortal mother of Jesus of Nazareth, have been considered more than mere mortals, while others have been virtually ignored in their faith and good deeds. Many women of the Bible proved themselves more than equal to the challenges and trials of their day. Many were considered touched by the hand of God and were full of faith, determination, and courage that helped them to overcome the adversity of the prejudiced era in which they lived.
(I forget the source)
.
That was Paul saying it. His opinion only.
Jesus' interactions with women
According to New Testament scholar Dr. Frank Stagg and classicist Evelyn Stagg, the synoptic Gospels of the canonical New Testament contain a relatively high number of references to women. The Staggs find no recorded instance where Jesus disgraces, belittles, reproaches, or stereotypes a woman. These writers claim that examples of the manner of Jesus are instructive for inferring his attitudes toward women and show repeatedly how he liberated and affirmed women.
Jesus accepted the gifts of loving service and gentleness that women offered Him. Twenty-four times in the Gospel of Luke alone, Jesus either met a woman, talked about a woman, or mentioned a woman in a parable. All of these 24 times are instructive and positive.
Jesus’ sense of manhood was never threatened by the tenderness of a woman. Luke told of a woman who came into a banquet, knelt, wept over Jesus’ feet, bathing them with her tears, and then anointed them with perfume before drying them with her hair.[Lk 7:36—50] This was her act of repentance. Jesus allowed her to do this without any trace of disgust or embarrassment. While no rabbi of Jesus’ day is known to have included women among his disciples,Jesus included women in His circle of followers—even women from questionable backgrounds.[7]
In contrast to current attitudes, Jesus is never exploitative of women. He is the one man who dared to talk openly with the woman at the well in John 4. He breached every standard of His culture by doing that. And yet the woman, even while she was being exposed for everything that she was—a woman with multiple marriages and a sordid life—was never threatened. Jesus never humiliated her. He simply lifted her out of her filth and gently clothed her in the righteousness of her Heavenly Father.... Jesus never intimidated or sexually threatened a woman, and He was never threatened or intimidated by a woman. ...Jesus lifted and affirmed every woman who came to Him.
(I forget where I got it from)
Jesus' interactions with women
According to New Testament scholar Dr. Frank Stagg and classicist Evelyn Stagg, the synoptic Gospels of the canonical New Testament contain a relatively high number of references to women. The Staggs find no recorded instance where Jesus disgraces, belittles, reproaches, or stereotypes a woman. These writers claim that examples of the manner of Jesus are instructive for inferring his attitudes toward women and show repeatedly how he liberated and affirmed women.
Jesus accepted the gifts of loving service and gentleness that women offered Him. Twenty-four times in the Gospel of Luke alone, Jesus either met a woman, talked about a woman, or mentioned a woman in a parable. All of these 24 times are instructive and positive.
Jesus’ sense of manhood was never threatened by the tenderness of a woman. Luke told of a woman who came into a banquet, knelt, wept over Jesus’ feet, bathing them with her tears, and then anointed them with perfume before drying them with her hair.[Lk 7:36—50] This was her act of repentance. Jesus allowed her to do this without any trace of disgust or embarrassment. While no rabbi of Jesus’ day is known to have included women among his disciples,Jesus included women in His circle of followers—even women from questionable backgrounds.[7]
In contrast to current attitudes, Jesus is never exploitative of women. He is the one man who dared to talk openly with the woman at the well in John 4. He breached every standard of His culture by doing that. And yet the woman, even while she was being exposed for everything that she was—a woman with multiple marriages and a sordid life—was never threatened. Jesus never humiliated her. He simply lifted her out of her filth and gently clothed her in the righteousness of her Heavenly Father.... Jesus never intimidated or sexually threatened a woman, and He was never threatened or intimidated by a woman. ...Jesus lifted and affirmed every woman who came to Him.
(I forget where I got it from)
Now for men doing housework
Jacob cooked stew, Abraham served guests, and priest are told - more than once - to wash their clothes. The scriptures contain many references to men engaged in household tasks. Below is Faith Online's list: 12 examples of Bible verses concerning men and domesticity...
1. "[Abraham] said: 'Let me get you something to eat'... He then brought some curds and milk...and set these before them.")(Genesis 18:5)
2. "[Lot] prepared a feast for them... and baked unleavened bread" (Genesis: 19:3)
3. "[Laban] said 'I have prepared the house'." (Genesis: 24-31)
4. "Jacob was cooking some stew" (Genesis 25 – 29)
5. "A man...shall wash his clothes" (Leviticus: 13, 2: 6, 34)
6. "The priest shall then wash his clothes" (Numbers: 19:7)
7. "A man kindles a fire…and bakes bread. He prepares his meal, he roasts his meat and eats" (Isaiah 44: 15 – 16)
8. "Pharisees...you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish" (Matt 23:25)
9. "The disciples…prepared the Passover" ( Matt 26:19)
10. "Jesus poured water in the basin and began to wash the disciple's feet and to wipe them with the towel with which he was girded" (John 13:5)
11. "The twelve" in the Jerusalem Church had the responsibility to serve tables (Acts 6: 1-2)
12. "The Philippian jailer took [Paul and Silas] and washed their wounds...and he brought them into his house and set food before them."
(Acts 16: 27, 33, 34)
Jacob cooked stew, Abraham served guests, and priest are told - more than once - to wash their clothes. The scriptures contain many references to men engaged in household tasks. Below is Faith Online's list: 12 examples of Bible verses concerning men and domesticity...
1. "[Abraham] said: 'Let me get you something to eat'... He then brought some curds and milk...and set these before them.")(Genesis 18:5)
2. "[Lot] prepared a feast for them... and baked unleavened bread" (Genesis: 19:3)
3. "[Laban] said 'I have prepared the house'." (Genesis: 24-31)
4. "Jacob was cooking some stew" (Genesis 25 – 29)
5. "A man...shall wash his clothes" (Leviticus: 13, 2: 6, 34)
6. "The priest shall then wash his clothes" (Numbers: 19:7)
7. "A man kindles a fire…and bakes bread. He prepares his meal, he roasts his meat and eats" (Isaiah 44: 15 – 16)
8. "Pharisees...you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish" (Matt 23:25)
9. "The disciples…prepared the Passover" ( Matt 26:19)
10. "Jesus poured water in the basin and began to wash the disciple's feet and to wipe them with the towel with which he was girded" (John 13:5)
11. "The twelve" in the Jerusalem Church had the responsibility to serve tables (Acts 6: 1-2)
12. "The Philippian jailer took [Paul and Silas] and washed their wounds...and he brought them into his house and set food before them."
(Acts 16: 27, 33, 34)
As far as this goes, personally, I'm fine with either my woman cooking, or me. I like to cook. I enjoy it.
But also remember that Abraham would be part of the name then given to his wife after marriage. In God-sight they are one. So it could in fact have been their wives that made those meals. If you get me.
But yea I think making your woman cook religiously and strictly, is a bit far. If she's tired, I'll cook. If I'm tired, she'll cook. If we're both tired, we'll get a takeaway. Not a biggy for me.
But also remember that Abraham would be part of the name then given to his wife after marriage. In God-sight they are one. So it could in fact have been their wives that made those meals. If you get me.
But yea I think making your woman cook religiously and strictly, is a bit far. If she's tired, I'll cook. If I'm tired, she'll cook. If we're both tired, we'll get a takeaway. Not a biggy for me.
G
1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 14:36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
Paul is VERY specific in mentioning that these commandments are of God and were not for just one group of people but ALL. You will never ever be able to find evidence where God allowed a woman to teach men. There is a reason the bible mentions that Eve was deceived by the serpent but not Adam. It also says the woman is for the man. No man should treat his wife as a slave or lesser than himself but they become "heirs together" and should be shown respect and honor. There were women prophetesses and I believe at least one judge but that is different than a teacher or preacher of scripture
Paul is VERY specific in mentioning that these commandments are of God and were not for just one group of people but ALL. You will never ever be able to find evidence where God allowed a woman to teach men. There is a reason the bible mentions that Eve was deceived by the serpent but not Adam. It also says the woman is for the man. No man should treat his wife as a slave or lesser than himself but they become "heirs together" and should be shown respect and honor. There were women prophetesses and I believe at least one judge but that is different than a teacher or preacher of scripture
G
If you could find scripture to back that up I might check it out. But a command is something that ALL people must follow. That's why Paul noted that the law says it in the old testament. If God gives a command he does not alter it. It's impossible for God to lie..."my covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips" -God
Paul gives his reasons when he speaks of confusion which is why he said for them to remain silent. This is what I said would happen and explained why. The commandment is for women to be obedient.
1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
If you want to know more about the Jewish way of life 2000 years ago I suggest you research it.
1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
If you want to know more about the Jewish way of life 2000 years ago I suggest you research it.
G
Well the Jewish way of life does not superscede the Word of God. Like I said Paul called it a commandment of God. A commandment ESPECIALLY one from God is not for just one person or people but all. Just like a Christian is not under the law but they still have to obey the commandments. A commandment is a law. Part of what makes a law a "law" is that it is absolute. It cannot be altered.
G
I agree with that scripture u posted. God is not the author of confusion. God DOES NOT change. If it was OK for women to teach in the churches back then God would have allowed it regardless of what others thought. I suggest u continue your studies of the truth and disregard what anything or anyone else has taught you and allow scripture to teach itself. If you seek the truth you will find it. I promise...it may seem old fashioned for me to believe like I do but even that is scriptural. It says to seek the old paths and walk in them when u find them.