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G
Maybe this can put things in a better perspective for everybody.
I do not suffer a women to teach (authority=orgination, thinking loftier than someone else) of man, or to have authority, or to lord over men as if you are God's gift to God.
Maybe this 'infiniite' usage of the two words in questions clears things up, and, here is the original verse to reference.
"I do not suffer a women to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence." 1 Timothy 2:12
Keep in mind that Paul's very NEXT words in 1 Timothy 2, starting v. 13 speak of God forming Adam first and then Eve. Eve was deceived, not Adam. She was the one who started THE BALL ROLLING (thanks a lot, woman
)
I do not suffer a women to teach (authority=orgination, thinking loftier than someone else) of man, or to have authority, or to lord over men as if you are God's gift to God.
Maybe this 'infiniite' usage of the two words in questions clears things up, and, here is the original verse to reference.
"I do not suffer a women to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence." 1 Timothy 2:12
Keep in mind that Paul's very NEXT words in 1 Timothy 2, starting v. 13 speak of God forming Adam first and then Eve. Eve was deceived, not Adam. She was the one who started THE BALL ROLLING (thanks a lot, woman
)
Maybe this can put things in a better perspective for everybody.
I do not suffer a women to teach (authority=orgination, thinking loftier than someone else) of man, or to have authority, or to lord over men as if you are God's gift to God.
Maybe this 'infiniite' usage of the two words in questions clears things up, and, here is the original verse to reference.
"I do not suffer a women to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence." 1 Timothy 2:12
Keep in mind that Paul's very NEXT words in 1 Timothy 2, starting v. 13 speak of God forming Adam first and then Eve. Eve was deceived, not Adam. She was the one who started THE BALL ROLLING (thanks a lot, woman )
I do not suffer a women to teach (authority=orgination, thinking loftier than someone else) of man, or to have authority, or to lord over men as if you are God's gift to God.
Maybe this 'infiniite' usage of the two words in questions clears things up, and, here is the original verse to reference.
"I do not suffer a women to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence." 1 Timothy 2:12
Keep in mind that Paul's very NEXT words in 1 Timothy 2, starting v. 13 speak of God forming Adam first and then Eve. Eve was deceived, not Adam. She was the one who started THE BALL ROLLING (thanks a lot, woman
)
Do not confuse the prohibition of women speaking, teaching, or preaching in the assymbly with a woman's ability or freedom to teach someone, even a man, outside of the assymbly. This is certainly exemplified in the case Aquilla and Percilla as they were both instrumental in the teaching of Apollos. But, this was not in the assymbly. Can God use women in this capacity? Obviously, and I believe he does. Does he allow them so serve in this copacity in the assymbly? No. In fact, he has forbidden in such chategorical language that can neither be rationalized or explained away.
G
Where does scripture state that women can not teach or preach in the church, or, 'in the assembly?'
Keep in mind, a 'church' is not a building.
I see where they are to be silent IN THE CHURCH and not 'chatter' as is the word's Greek meaning, I think, Nathan (cc user), told us, of 1 Cor. 14/34-35 'silence' orginal Greek meaning as Paul intended, just like 'silence' in 1 Timothy 2:!2 does not mean for women to be silent, but to be 'peaceable,' if the true Greek word is used for our outdated English one, lol .
Again each INDIVIDUAL is a UNION of the man (body) and the woman (spirit). When the bible says that in the churches women are to remain silent, paul is talking about the spirit personified by the wisdom one has obtained. The churches are simply when we are interracting with one another. When women are to remain silent here is an example.
One by whatever wisdom he has believes eating swine is a grave sin against God, another by his wisdom believes swine is not a sin. Now we understand how to act according to the wisdom from above and mother of us all, but what we see is "another" woman or wisdom when these such debates come in to play. How does this woman act in relation to the one in Proverbs 8? Revelation 17 says she REIGNS over KINGS or mankind.
One by whatever wisdom he has believes eating swine is a grave sin against God, another by his wisdom believes swine is not a sin. Now we understand how to act according to the wisdom from above and mother of us all, but what we see is "another" woman or wisdom when these such debates come in to play. How does this woman act in relation to the one in Proverbs 8? Revelation 17 says she REIGNS over KINGS or mankind.
T
Yes I believe that back then in Paul's time their were women who were very disruptive doing church service and this could have caused Paul to say this but also there are other scriptures that back up that women are not to be preachers/bishops in the church Titus 1:5ff tells us what elders and bishops roles and responsibilities are in God's church. Also there are no single account of a woman "preaching" to a group of men and women in the New Testament. I understand that people think this is Paul opinion but if that's the case then we would have to doubt just about everything said in the New Testament since he wrote it and since God is not a God of confusion I don't see us picking and choosing which verses are opinions and which ones are not. Everything Paul said is inspired by God. And just because a lot of "holy" people are doing something doesn't make it right.
G
So WHAT !
Or, should I say, 'WHAT ! ' like Paul did in verse 36 AFTER having been reading what the Corinth church leaders were SAYING NOT PAUL about women keeping silent.
Paul's word was 'What'
This is a questioning word, is it not???
Paul was saying, in essence, 'Who died and MADE you God ?'
Who did, Tru ?
Paul was not saying what you THINK he was saying IF you really analyze Scripture
Scripture is clear on this FACT , from Paul , God-ordained minister, and, it's NOT completely clear, but, I for one, believe Paul wrote Hebrews and there too are signs of Paul having NO problem with women in church. Sure, in bible times, women were not preaching much, but ARE WE in bible times now, Tru?
The world has changed, milady . Much !!
God is MOvING in great ways tHrougH craCKs , through creVIces before He surely will come again. He is USING sooo many people now to reach those that otherwise cannot be reached, gay, lesbian, are one people group. God's not dead, He's surely alive, He's living on the inside, roaring like a lion, and, I am NOT judging that people group or any other....
....just saying that God is dot to dotting our landscape with His will and you should PRAY hard about thinking women are NOT allowed to preach TODAY, look around you, there are 100s of women preachers, who are CALLED by God.
Who else called them, ya think??
God is in
CONTROL !
Or, should I say, 'WHAT ! ' like Paul did in verse 36 AFTER having been reading what the Corinth church leaders were SAYING NOT PAUL about women keeping silent.
Paul's word was 'What'
This is a questioning word, is it not???
Paul was saying, in essence, 'Who died and MADE you God ?'
Who did, Tru ?
Paul was not saying what you THINK he was saying IF you really analyze Scripture
Scripture is clear on this FACT , from Paul , God-ordained minister, and, it's NOT completely clear, but, I for one, believe Paul wrote Hebrews and there too are signs of Paul having NO problem with women in church. Sure, in bible times, women were not preaching much, but ARE WE in bible times now, Tru?
The world has changed, milady . Much !!
God is MOvING in great ways tHrougH craCKs , through creVIces before He surely will come again. He is USING sooo many people now to reach those that otherwise cannot be reached, gay, lesbian, are one people group. God's not dead, He's surely alive, He's living on the inside, roaring like a lion, and, I am NOT judging that people group or any other....
....just saying that God is dot to dotting our landscape with His will and you should PRAY hard about thinking women are NOT allowed to preach TODAY, look around you, there are 100s of women preachers, who are CALLED by God.
Who else called them, ya think??
God is in
CONTROL !
T
So WHAT !
Or, should I say, 'WHAT ! ' like Paul did in verse 36 AFTER having been reading what the Corinth church leaders were SAYING NOT PAUL about women keeping silent.
Paul's word was 'What'
This is a questioning word, is it not???
Paul was saying, in essence, 'Who died and MADE you God ?'
Who did, Tru ?
Paul was not saying what you THINK he was saying IF you really analyze Scripture
Scripture is clear on this FACT , from Paul , God-ordained minister, and, it's NOT completely clear, but, I for one, believe Paul wrote Hebrews and there too are signs of Paul having NO problem with women in church. Sure, in bible times, women were not preaching much, but ARE WE in bible times now, Tru?
The world has changed, milady . Much !!
God is MOvING in great ways tHrougH craCKs , through creVIces before He surely will come again. He is USING sooo many people now to reach those that otherwise cannot be reached, gay, lesbian, are one people group. God's not dead, He's surely alive, He's living on the inside, roaring like a lion, and, I am NOT judging that people group or any other....
....just saying that God is dot to dotting our landscape with His will and you should PRAY hard about thinking women are NOT allowed to preach TODAY, look around you, there are 100s of women preachers, who are CALLED by God.
Who else called them, ya think??
God is in
CONTROL !
Or, should I say, 'WHAT ! ' like Paul did in verse 36 AFTER having been reading what the Corinth church leaders were SAYING NOT PAUL about women keeping silent.
Paul's word was 'What'
This is a questioning word, is it not???
Paul was saying, in essence, 'Who died and MADE you God ?'
Who did, Tru ?
Paul was not saying what you THINK he was saying IF you really analyze Scripture
Scripture is clear on this FACT , from Paul , God-ordained minister, and, it's NOT completely clear, but, I for one, believe Paul wrote Hebrews and there too are signs of Paul having NO problem with women in church. Sure, in bible times, women were not preaching much, but ARE WE in bible times now, Tru?
The world has changed, milady . Much !!
God is MOvING in great ways tHrougH craCKs , through creVIces before He surely will come again. He is USING sooo many people now to reach those that otherwise cannot be reached, gay, lesbian, are one people group. God's not dead, He's surely alive, He's living on the inside, roaring like a lion, and, I am NOT judging that people group or any other....
....just saying that God is dot to dotting our landscape with His will and you should PRAY hard about thinking women are NOT allowed to preach TODAY, look around you, there are 100s of women preachers, who are CALLED by God.
Who else called them, ya think??
God is in
CONTROL !
Second of all this world is Satan's playgroud. It's full of sin, sorrow, and death. Just because it's being done in this awful world, that will not be our home forever, doesn't make it right.
And yes we do live in Bible times. Everything the New Testament says do I do. And when the New Testament is silent I don't do it. When you love someone you try to do everything in your power to please them and do what they say because you want them to know without a shadow of doubt that you really love them. And the same thing goes with God. The only way we can really show God that we love him is to do what he says in his word (by keeping his commandments) and remaining faithful until death. Religion is not about our feelings and opinions. Never in God's word did he ask anyone how they felt about anything. If we have the holy spirit in us it's gonna teach us all the same things. It's has to. The Holy Spirit comes from God and his Son Jesus Christ.They can't contradict themselves 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
G
Then why are you not learning that The bible NOWHERE says that women can not teach and preach to men?
Where does The bible specifically say that a woman can not teach a man or 'men' about God. How does Paul saying 'women are not to teach (authority ) or usurp , or, swallow up authority over a man' make it so that they can not teach or preach TO A MAN, OR, MEN?
I am on your thread because the Lord leads, but if you don't want me on here, fine, I am off now, I will leave you with this: the lies you speak of in Thessalonians are the oppressive INTERPRETATIONS of Scripture, and, I do not bend, twist scripture. I take it at face value and by virtue of NO verses clearly saying a woman can not preach to a man, it is not true....there are NO contradictions, Tru, but, you are right about one thing, as you preach and teach me, The Holy Spirit is,saying to you right now, 'Tru, be at peafe, go teach others, girl, as I lead, I want to use you in this way.'
Notice in 1 Timothy 2:12, the words 'over a man,' tru, these words, IF they were accurately speaking of 'preaching or teaching,' would be 'to a man.' 1 Tim. 2:12 no? Yes? Maybe?
But the words ARE 'over a man,' therefore, it is a 'origination,' context, or, 'orderly domination' as Scripture reads with word, 'usurp.' It is NOT a spiritual ultimatum, Tru. Can't you see this, milady???
Here is the verse:
I suffer not a woman to teach (origination or authority, as in AUTHORSHIP) or have authority ( origination, or,, authorship, or,, another word could be 'control') OVER A MAN , but to be in silence.'
The very next verse AFTER 1 Timothy 2:12 is 'Adam was formed first then Eve.' « This speaks of a 'origination' context, otherwise verse 13 does not properly correlate in context with verse 12 . Just doesn't, and, furthermore, verse 14, states that Eve was deceived, and, this, too, speaks of 'order,' not absolutism of women not to preach TO A MAN.
Where does The bible specifically say that a woman can not teach a man or 'men' about God. How does Paul saying 'women are not to teach (authority ) or usurp , or, swallow up authority over a man' make it so that they can not teach or preach TO A MAN, OR, MEN?
I am on your thread because the Lord leads, but if you don't want me on here, fine, I am off now, I will leave you with this: the lies you speak of in Thessalonians are the oppressive INTERPRETATIONS of Scripture, and, I do not bend, twist scripture. I take it at face value and by virtue of NO verses clearly saying a woman can not preach to a man, it is not true....there are NO contradictions, Tru, but, you are right about one thing, as you preach and teach me, The Holy Spirit is,saying to you right now, 'Tru, be at peafe, go teach others, girl, as I lead, I want to use you in this way.'
Notice in 1 Timothy 2:12, the words 'over a man,' tru, these words, IF they were accurately speaking of 'preaching or teaching,' would be 'to a man.' 1 Tim. 2:12 no? Yes? Maybe?
But the words ARE 'over a man,' therefore, it is a 'origination,' context, or, 'orderly domination' as Scripture reads with word, 'usurp.' It is NOT a spiritual ultimatum, Tru. Can't you see this, milady???
Here is the verse:
I suffer not a woman to teach (origination or authority, as in AUTHORSHIP) or have authority ( origination, or,, authorship, or,, another word could be 'control') OVER A MAN , but to be in silence.'
The very next verse AFTER 1 Timothy 2:12 is 'Adam was formed first then Eve.' « This speaks of a 'origination' context, otherwise verse 13 does not properly correlate in context with verse 12 . Just doesn't, and, furthermore, verse 14, states that Eve was deceived, and, this, too, speaks of 'order,' not absolutism of women not to preach TO A MAN.
It is Yahweh's love and mercy that allows any one to preach and teach His Torah (Torah means teaching.)
Yeshua always chose mercy over punitive laws, and He forgave, stating in one place, "I desire mercy and not sacrifice," and in another, "The Son of Man (Adam) came to forgive, not to condemn."
Why are so many who claim to know Yahweh so willing to be unmerciful and unyielding to other souls wrapped in the present world garb of being female?
It is the mercy of Yahweh which allows anyone to spread His Word, it is never by any one person's virtue, aside from Yeshua that is, amen.
Yeshua always chose mercy over punitive laws, and He forgave, stating in one place, "I desire mercy and not sacrifice," and in another, "The Son of Man (Adam) came to forgive, not to condemn."
Why are so many who claim to know Yahweh so willing to be unmerciful and unyielding to other souls wrapped in the present world garb of being female?
It is the mercy of Yahweh which allows anyone to spread His Word, it is never by any one person's virtue, aside from Yeshua that is, amen.
Of course. Many times in the Word, Yeshua would refer to Himself as the Son of Man, and in other translations the Son of Adam. Adam may mean man, mankind and more. The word for blood, dam, also comes from the root word, as does the word for earth, adamah. It goes on, the root is also the root of the name Edom. It is certain I am missing more, but it does not come to mind at present.
Just that one name brings so much together for many. Blessed be our Lord and Savior, Yeshua, amen.
Just that one name brings so much together for many. Blessed be our Lord and Savior, Yeshua, amen.
X
Jesus said...go and make disciples of all nations.
did he say all men, did he mention sex?
imagine a women going to a place like China where no one knew about Jesus.
and she taught people about Jesus...should she keep her mouth shut? because you are implying women to be quiet.
what the bible talks about in -head- s that, in a church the women should be silent
but the bible does not forbids women from preaching!
did he say all men, did he mention sex?
imagine a women going to a place like China where no one knew about Jesus.
and she taught people about Jesus...should she keep her mouth shut? because you are implying women to be quiet.
what the bible talks about in -head- s that, in a church the women should be silent
but the bible does not forbids women from preaching!
G
Hey, hey, hey, Jj.
Starfield was only trying to understand better. No need to say anything with tone to her, she is a young warrior girl of our God, she knows God, she knows Jesus, she knows Holy Spirit, and, in a great light. She knows the way is Jesus, the Truth is His Word, and, she knows 'the Life' is who He is and what immeasurable measure of blessing, Love, grace, mercy, given unto those that embrace Him and the abundant life He 'personally' gives all those who seek Him and His will with all their life
We are all wrong, that is why cross went to the.cross, right, wronged by us, I know some on here got you edgy recently, and, making you feel blameworthy but, my Christbro, it is God your maker whom can EVER make you feel guilty and since God NEVER guilts, just corrects us, then why are you judging yourself in a convicted way?
You are led by a gentle Spirit, be led, brother, always by Him
Anyway, I wasn't going to comment here unless someone directly pulls one of my quotes, but, like Jesus, I felt their was some peace (through Him) I needed to bring. God bless you all my Christ peeps for following Jesus, our way to Truth and Life
Starfield was only trying to understand better. No need to say anything with tone to her, she is a young warrior girl of our God, she knows God, she knows Jesus, she knows Holy Spirit, and, in a great light. She knows the way is Jesus, the Truth is His Word, and, she knows 'the Life' is who He is and what immeasurable measure of blessing, Love, grace, mercy, given unto those that embrace Him and the abundant life He 'personally' gives all those who seek Him and His will with all their life
We are all wrong, that is why cross went to the.cross, right, wronged by us, I know some on here got you edgy recently, and, making you feel blameworthy but, my Christbro, it is God your maker whom can EVER make you feel guilty and since God NEVER guilts, just corrects us, then why are you judging yourself in a convicted way?
You are led by a gentle Spirit, be led, brother, always by Him
Anyway, I wasn't going to comment here unless someone directly pulls one of my quotes, but, like Jesus, I felt their was some peace (through Him) I needed to bring. God bless you all my Christ peeps for following Jesus, our way to Truth and Life
Last edited by a moderator:
Hey, hey, hey, Jj.
Starfield was only trying to understand better. No need to say anything with tone to her, she is a young warrior girl of our God, she knows God, she knows Jesus, she knows Holy Spirit, and, in a great light. She knows the way is Jesus, the Truth is His Word, and, she knows 'the Life' is who He is and what immeasurable measure of blessing, Love, grace, mercy, given unto those that embrace Him and the abundant life He 'personally' gives all those who seek Him and His will with all their life
We are all wrong, that is why cross went to the.cross, right, wronged by us, I know some on here got you edgy recently, and, making you feel blameworthy but, my Christbro, it is God your maker whom can EVER make you feel guilty and since God NEVER guilts, just corrects us, then why are you judging yourself in a convicted way?
You are led by a gentle Spirit, be led, brother, always by Him
Anyway, I wasn't going to comment here unless someone directly pulls one of my quotes, but, like Jesus, I felt their was some peace (through Him) I needed to bring. God bless you all my Christ peeps for following Jesus, our way to Truth and Life
Starfield was only trying to understand better. No need to say anything with tone to her, she is a young warrior girl of our God, she knows God, she knows Jesus, she knows Holy Spirit, and, in a great light. She knows the way is Jesus, the Truth is His Word, and, she knows 'the Life' is who He is and what immeasurable measure of blessing, Love, grace, mercy, given unto those that embrace Him and the abundant life He 'personally' gives all those who seek Him and His will with all their life
We are all wrong, that is why cross went to the.cross, right, wronged by us, I know some on here got you edgy recently, and, making you feel blameworthy but, my Christbro, it is God your maker whom can EVER make you feel guilty and since God NEVER guilts, just corrects us, then why are you judging yourself in a convicted way?
You are led by a gentle Spirit, be led, brother, always by Him
Anyway, I wasn't going to comment here unless someone directly pulls one of my quotes, but, like Jesus, I felt their was some peace (through Him) I needed to bring. God bless you all my Christ peeps for following Jesus, our way to Truth and Life
Hey, hey, hey, Jj.
Starfield was only trying to understand better. No need to say anything with tone to her, she is a young warrior girl of our God, she knows God, she knows Jesus, she knows Holy Spirit, and, in a great light. She knows the way is Jesus, the Truth is His Word, and, she knows 'the Life' is who He is and what immeasurable measure of blessing, Love, grace, mercy, given unto those that embrace Him and the abundant life He 'personally' gives all those who seek Him and His will with all their life
We are all wrong, that is why cross went to the.cross, right, wronged by us, I know some on here got you edgy recently, and, making you feel blameworthy but, my Christbro, it is God your maker whom can EVER make you feel guilty and since God NEVER guilts, just corrects us, then why are you judging yourself in a convicted way?
You are led by a gentle Spirit, be led, brother, always by Him
Anyway, I wasn't going to comment here unless someone directly pulls one of my quotes, but, like Jesus, I felt their was some peace (through Him) I needed to bring. God bless you all my Christ peeps for following Jesus, our way to Truth and Life
Starfield was only trying to understand better. No need to say anything with tone to her, she is a young warrior girl of our God, she knows God, she knows Jesus, she knows Holy Spirit, and, in a great light. She knows the way is Jesus, the Truth is His Word, and, she knows 'the Life' is who He is and what immeasurable measure of blessing, Love, grace, mercy, given unto those that embrace Him and the abundant life He 'personally' gives all those who seek Him and His will with all their life
We are all wrong, that is why cross went to the.cross, right, wronged by us, I know some on here got you edgy recently, and, making you feel blameworthy but, my Christbro, it is God your maker whom can EVER make you feel guilty and since God NEVER guilts, just corrects us, then why are you judging yourself in a convicted way?
You are led by a gentle Spirit, be led, brother, always by Him
Anyway, I wasn't going to comment here unless someone directly pulls one of my quotes, but, like Jesus, I felt their was some peace (through Him) I needed to bring. God bless you all my Christ peeps for following Jesus, our way to Truth and Life
God bless.