Scott, i find your mission repulsive.
i doubt there's much to be done about it.
there have always been people like you who think they've found something special.
you like Judaism. we get that unbelieving jews deny they have a sin nature - that's one reason they reject Jesus.
but go talk to rabbis about the sacrifical system and just see if there was anything in it whereby the sins of the people were transferred to an innocent party...and how God then used that and DECLARED them CLEAN.
have you done that yet?
or are you just sitting in some basement creeping pastors online?
I don't deny the atonement. I am SPECIFICALLY speaking about the PENAL SUBSTITUTION VIEW of the atonement.
Jesus shed His blood on the cross so that our past sins could be remitted.
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Zone... Why didn't the early church teach this Penal Substitution view?
i guess it was understood - until Rome came up with new ideas,...and guys like you came along and couldn't grasp the Sacrificial System.
you don't deny the atonement; you say Jesus shed His blood on the Cross; so our [past] sins could be remitted; so that through faith in His blood one can be saved. is that about right?
what exactly did His blood DO?
why did He have to shed BLOOD and die?
couldn't He just have taught?
clearly explain without DeSario; AnteNicene fathers; outside websites - exactly WHAT Jesus died for.
explain YOUR understanding of the Atonement.
which of YOUR past sins did He die for Skinski?
the ones you committed before you were born; the ones you committed when pretending to be saved but steeped in sin; the ones you commit now; the ones you will commit in the future....which of those
past sins did He shed His blood for.
if you sin tomorrow you're going into eternal fire i guess.
The Catholic doctrine of the atonement...... is no trace, as we have seen, of the notions of vicarious satisfaction, in the sense of our sins being imputed to Christ and His obedience imputed to us, which some of the Reformers made the very essence of Christianity; or, again, of the kindred notion that God was angry with His Son for our sakes, and inflicted on Him the punishment due to us ; nor is Isaiah s prophecy interpreted in this sense, as afterwards by Luther;[/COLOR] on the contrary, there is much which expressly negatives this line of thought. There is no mention of the justice of God, in the forensic sense of the word; the Incarnation is in variably exclusively ascribed to His love; the term satisfaction does not occur in this connection at all, and where Christ is said to suffer for us, huper (not anti) is the word always used.
Leviticus 16
6“Aaron shall offer the bull as a sin offering for himself and shall make atonement for himself and for his house. 7 Then he shall take the two goats and set them before the LORD at the entrance of the tent of meeting. 8 And Aaron shall cast lots over the two goats, one lot for the LORD and the other lot for Azazel.a 9 And Aaron shall present the goat on which the lot fell for the LORD and use it as a sin offering, 10 but the goat on which the lot fell for Azazel shall be presented alive before the LORD to make atonement over it, that it may be sent away into the wilderness to Azazel.
15“Then he shall kill the goat of the sin offering that is for the people and bring its blood inside the veil and do with its blood as he did with the blood of the bull, sprinkling it over the mercy seat and in front of the mercy seat. 16Thus he shall make atonement for the Holy Place, because of the uncleannesses of the people of Israel and because of their transgressions, all their sins. And so he shall do for the tent of meeting, which dwells with them in the midst of their uncleannesses. 17No one may be in the tent of meeting from the time he enters to make atonement in the Holy Place until he comes out and has made atonement for himself and for his house and for all the assembly of Israel. 18Then he shall go out to the altar that is before the LORD and make atonement for it, and shall take some of the blood of the bull and some of the blood of the goat, and put it on the horns of the altar all around. 19And he shall sprinkle some of the blood on it with his finger seven times, and cleanse it and consecrate it from the uncleannesses of the people of Israel.
20 “And when he has made an end of atoning for the Holy Place and the tent of meeting and the altar, he shall present the live goat. 21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, and confess over it all the iniquities of the people of Israel, and all their transgressions, all their sins. And he shall put them on the head of the goat and send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a man who is in readiness. 22 The goat shall bear all their iniquities on itself to a remote area, and he shall let the goat go free in the wilderness.
23 “Then Aaron shall come into the tent of meeting and shall take off the linen garments that he put on when he went into the Holy Place and shall leave them there. 24 And he shall bathe his body in water in a holy place and put on his garments and come out and offer his burnt offering and the burnt offering of the people and make atonement for himself and for the people. 25 And the fat of the sin offering he shall burn on the altar. 26 And he who lets the goat go to Azazel shall wash his clothes and bathe his body in water, and afterward he may come into the camp. 27 And the bull for the sin offering and the goat for the sin offering, whose blood was brought in to make atonement in the Holy Place, shall be carried outside the camp. Their skin and their flesh and their dung shall be burned up with fire. 28 And he who burns them shall wash his clothes and bathe his body in water, and afterward he may come into the camp.
do you have any clue whatsoever what
the two goats were for, on The Day of Atonement (not to mention all the other animals and offerings)?
can you read?
are you able to see Jesus Christ at all in God's Sacrificial System?
can see one goat killed as a sin offering? - blood.
and another there's another goat there. see it?
do you know anything at all about that goat?
anything?
what was that goat for?
what was that goat carrying away alone into the wilderness to die outside the camp?
was it guilt?
did that goat sin?
whose guilt was laid upon it?
why?
by whom?
who demanded that goat be included in the plan?
Isaiah 43:25
“I, I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake, and I will not remember your sins.
Psalm 103:12
As far as the east is from the west, So far has He removed our transgressions from us.
Hebrews 9:26
Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Hebrews 7:27
Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.
Hebrews 9:12
He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.
Hebrews 13:13
Let us, then, go to him outside the camp, bearing the disgrace he bore.
1 Peter 3:18
For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit
~
something to think about Scott:
GOATS will hear this said them....about how they treated The Lord's brothers - His sent ones....His pastors (sheep) who He called to preach the true Gospel (to His sheep). Notice He says as they the sheep did it (or the goats did not do it) to the least of those
His brothers, they did it (or did not do it)
to HIM.
Matthew 25
The Final Judgment
31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers,f you did it to me.’
41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”