Connecting the Dots . . .

[Therapon]

If I understand, we are given the privilege to show mercy to all believing Jews who do not yet know Yeshua came as Messiah. Please let me know if this is understood by you as such.

I'll try. I don't know how many on this thread personally know or have led a Jew to the Lord. I have, more than once and let me tell you how the conversartions goes. I tell him I am a follower of Yeshua, find out he is an observant Jew and then . . .

Jew: "I thought you Christians hated us."
Me: "Some may, but I'm not one of them. You are looking for your Messiah aren't you?
Jew: "Of course."
Me: "Well then, you are my brother because so am I. I'm looking for the same person you are. The only difference between us is that I believe Messiah has already been here once and you have been prevented from knowing that by ha-Shem."

After that it's all down hill. I don't tell him he is lost and on his way to hell if he doesn't accpt Jesus and say the sinners prayer, because that is not true for the Jew who loves our G-d. He is looking for and trusting in his Messiah without even knowing who He is. You don't blame a blind man for his blindness, do you, particularly when G-d put it there? What you do is try to help him see.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Great post. Different approaches work better than others depending on culture, thinking style, worldview, etc...

This approach, you're articulating, works well with Jews imo. Reminds me of David Wilkerson's grandfather, who was an itinerant evangelist, who once told David you don't grab the bone out of a dog's mouth and fight him for it. Rather, you toss a nice steak down in front of him so he can drop the bone and go for the steak. You then can pick up the bone and discard it safely.

I should take that advice more often myself but sometimes I just enjoy the fight too much.

I'll try. I don't know how many on this thread personally know or have led a Jew to the Lord. I have, more than once and let me tell you how the conversartions goes. I tell him I am a follower of Yeshua, find out he is an observant Jew and then . . .

Jew: "I thought you Christians hated us."
Me: "Some may, but I'm not one of them. You are looking for your Messiah aren't you?
Jew: "Of course."
Me: "Well then, you are my brother because so am I. I'm looking for the same person you are. The only difference between us is that I believe Messiah has already been here once and you have been prevented from knowing that by ha-Shem."

After that it's all down hill. I don't tell him he is lost and on his way to hell if he doesn't accpt Jesus and say the sinners prayer, because that is not true for the Jew who loves our G-d. He is looking for and trusting in his Messiah without even knowing who He is. You don't blame a blind man for his blindness, do you, particularly when G-d put it there? What you do is try to help him see.

 

[Therapon]

Your book 'Islam in the End Times' has garnered many favorable reviews and I agree with those favorable reviews for that book as I think they are warranted.

I haven't read the other books on prophecy you've written, however.

Also, the SOZO I am acquainted with is an inner-healing/deliverance ministry. This makes sense as SOZO means salvation but also means making one whole and complete (e.g. spiritually, mentally, and physically) as per Romans 10:9, Matthew 9:22, Luke 8:36, etc.... I never even heard the word in relation to end times prophecy as I see you use it in one of your prophecy books.

Thank you sir. Most on this thread thinks I'm a card-carrying heretic. <grin> I know Mel who founded SOZO quite well, though he later changed the name of his ministry to Ezra International. I haven't seen him in several years, but I believe he is now retired and living somewhere in central Florida.

 

[Therapon]

I should take that advice more often myself but sometimes I just enjoy the fight too much.

LOL, I hear that, used to be me, too, though now I'm getting a little too brittle for it.

 

[JaumeJ]

When I have been blessed to share the Gospel with Jews I have always been led to emphasize Jesus as being a Jew and of the faith of Abraham. It has only been the last five years or so that it has seemed correct for me (for me) to call our Lord by His given name. There is not commandment to call Him Yeshua, but there also is no commandment to call Him Jesus. I am comfortable with both names. When I have been blessed to share with Jews, they were sent to me, one way or another. It has always been quite natural for me to love Jews just because they are Jews, however my head is not in the sand, there are those who say they are Jews and are not. It is wonderful waiting on the Lord.

I'll try. I don't know how many on this thread personally know or have led a Jew to the Lord. I have, more than once and let me tell you how the conversartions goes. I tell him I am a follower of Yeshua, find out he is an observant Jew and then . . .

Jew: "I thought you Christians hated us."
Me: "Some may, but I'm not one of them. You are looking for your Messiah aren't you?
Jew: "Of course."
Me: "Well then, you are my brother because so am I. I'm looking for the same person you are. The only difference between us is that I believe Messiah has already been here once and you have been prevented from knowing that by ha-Shem."

After that it's all down hill. I don't tell him he is lost and on his way to hell if he doesn't accpt Jesus and say the sinners prayer, because that is not true for the Jew who loves our G-d. He is looking for and trusting in his Messiah without even knowing who He is. You don't blame a blind man for his blindness, do you, particularly when G-d put it there? What you do is try to help him see.

 

[Therapon]

I have always called the Lord, Jesus, because that is what the New Testament names Him. Nowhere in the New Testament is the Lord called Yeshua, so I believe those sects that demand He be called Yeshua to be in error. However, I do use Yeshua when witnessing to Israelis because it is their language and I try to become all things to all men if perchance I might win some.

Very minor issue, though, like red letter Bibles.

 

[zone]

That is not true. Go to Amazon.com and read every review on all my books. You guys on this thread are the only negative in my life right now.

LOL!

i'm happy you are selling books.
Americans particularly are Anti-Arab and pro-israel.
of course you have followers


but your 70th week is a disgrace and it's already been proven.
but, just so everyone can see for themselves, i'll get the work out again.

when i have time.

 

[zone]

I have always called the Lord, Jesus, because that is what the New Testament names Him. Nowhere in the New Testament is the Lord called Yeshua, so I believe those sects that demand He be called Yeshua to be in error. However, I do use Yeshua when witnessing to Israelis because it is their language and I try to become all things to all men if perchance I might win some.

Very minor issue, though, like red letter Bibles.

why....on...earth...would you be witnessing to jews when God has BLINDED them for His Purpose?
why would you want to burst the Bottles he has protected?

have you ever answered my question - do you read and write HEBREW?

 

[zone]

Great post. Different approaches work better than others depending on culture, thinking style, worldview, etc...

This approach, you're articulating, works well with Jews imo. Reminds me of David Wilkerson's grandfather, who was an itinerant evangelist, who once told David you don't grab the bone out of a dog's mouth and fight him for it. Rather, you toss a nice steak down in front of him so he can drop the bone and go for the steak. You then can pick up the bone and discard it safely.

I should take that advice more often myself but sometimes I just enjoy the fight too much.

LOL AoK.
whatever...hehehe.
but ought you not read the whole thread?
ellis says the jews are blinded by God's Ordination so THAT they CAN'T hear the Gospel.

so why there would be "witnessing" i have no idea.

he says unbelieving jews today are saved by the Old Covenant and don't need to acknowledge Jesus Christ.
if you agree, well....i guess i'd want to know that.

do you?

 

[SoliDeo]

I have always called the Lord, Jesus, because that is what the New Testament names Him. Nowhere in the New Testament is the Lord called Yeshua, so I believe those sects that demand He be called Yeshua to be in error. However, I do use Yeshua when witnessing to Israelis because it is their language and I try to become all things to all men if perchance I might win some.

Very minor issue, though, like red letter Bibles.

I agree brother Therapon.

 

[1Christianwarrior316]

why....on...earth...would you be witnessing to jews when God has BLINDED them for His Purpose?

Why wouldn't we bear witness to the Jews? Remember only part is become blind. Can you tell which one's have been given the spirit of slumber just by looking at them zone?

1Christianwarrior316

 

[Therapon]

I agree brother Therapon.

Thank you Brother, BTW, I like your profile. Nobody really comes to Jesus because it's a goodie-two-shoes thing to do. I came to the Lord because I needed Him so badly. Isn't that the story of every true believer on earth? It is not until we realize, by the conviction of the Holy Spirit, what a piece of undiluted sinful garbage we have allowed our lives to become, that we can cry out in true repentance, "Lord, I'm not worth anything and my whole polluted soul has become a black horror in Your sight, please save me." And He does! The Creator of the Universe reaches down and covers it all in His shed blood.

 

[peterT]

Why wouldn't we bear witness to the Jews? Remember only part is become blind. Can you tell which one's have been given the spirit of slumber just by looking at them zone?

1Christianwarrior316

Yes, you can tell with you ear
the ones that don’t confess Jesus with their mouths

 

[Abiding]

the ones slumbering are the ones who wont believe. Thats what got them cut off in the first place.

23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

This is who, not when

 

[1Christianwarrior316]

Yes, you can tell with you ear
the ones that don’t confess Jesus with their mouths

I disagree with your comment peterT. Just as there are pseudochristians there are pseudojews. I have met many people who confess that they are Christians but still live a life of wickedness.
Are you God? Do you truly know the hearts and mind of man? Do you know who is born again and who isn't?
But your response did not answer the question I asked. Can you tell if a Jew has been given the spirit of slumber just by looking at them?

1Christianwarrior316

 

[peterT]

I disagree with your comment peterT. Just as there are pseudochristians there are pseudojews. I have met many people who confess that they are Christians but still live a life of wickedness.
Are you God? Do you truly know the hearts and mind of man? Do you know who is born again and who isn't?
But your response did not answer the question I asked. Can you tell if a Jew has been given the spirit of slumber just by looking at them?

1Christianwarrior316

Hay he speaks

You always disagree with my comment bro.

I can’t see who is saved but I can judge who confesses Jesus with their mouth, as for the ones who don’t , you know what it says.


2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.


1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

 

[1Christianwarrior316]

Hay he speaks

You always disagree with my comment bro.

I don't always disagee with what you say peterT. In fact I agree with what you say about the pretrib rapture in many of the threads you post on. Just as you disagree with my doctrine, I disagree with your doctrine. But it does not mean we don't agree on certain things.

I can’t see who is saved but I can judge who confesses Jesus with their mouth, as for the ones who don’t , you know what it says.

So do you think that just because a person confesses Jesus Christ with their mouth they are born again? If so, then could you explain the following verses?
Mat 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

1Christianwarrior316

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Can we tell a jew who has hardened their heart (Spirit of slumber)? Yes

1. As in the NT, there are still following law.
2. They deny Christ was their savior. Thus denying Christ as Messiah


How can we tell a Jew who is saved? or as Abiding said"grafted back in"

1. They confess Jesus as Lord
2. They are no longer following traditions of the law.

 

[1Christianwarrior316]

I can’t see who is saved but I can judge who confesses Jesus with their mouth, as for the ones who don’t , you know what it says.


2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.


1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

I'm sorry peterT I just don't agree that a Jew that has been given the spirit of slumber to be antichrist. If they have been blinded to not recognize that Jesus Christ is the Messiah how can they be in transgression? What you and others are promoting in my opinion is that our God is an unjust God without mercy who would destroy those He has given the spirit of slumber to. Doesn't scripture tell us that God is a just God full of mercy? How would that be just and merciful?

1Christianwarrior316

 

[zone]

it's never been the election (faithful, saved) who was given the "spirit of slumber"


Deuteronomy 29:4
But to this day the LORD has not given you a mind that understands or eyes that see or ears that hear.

Isaiah 6:9
He said, "Go and tell this people: "'Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.'

Jeremiah 5:21
Hear this, you foolish and senseless people, who have eyes but do not see, who have ears but do not hear:

Ezekiel 12:2
"Son of man, you are living among a rebellious people. They have eyes to see but do not see and ears to hear but do not hear, for they are a rebellious people.

Mark 4:12
so that, "'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'"

Luke 8:10
He said, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, "'though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.'

John 12:40
"He has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--and I would heal them."

Acts 28:26
"'Go to this people and say, "You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving."

Acts 28:27
For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.'

Romans 10:16
But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?"

Romans 11:8
as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes so that they could not see and ears so that they could not hear, to this very day."