Sovereignty of God and Moral Responsibility of Man

dashadow · Mar 14, 2013

The problem with so many people is they try to think their way to a relationship with God. Who knows the workings of God, what he chooses to do or not do? We constantly climb over each other's backs reaching for the forbidden fruit, so that we may pat ourselves on the back or receive praise from men based on our self-professed knowledge.

Colossians 2:8-9 (KJV)
8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:18-19 (KJV)
18Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. 19[For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.]

mark54 · Mar 14, 2013

dashadow said:

The problem with so many people is they try to think their way to a relationship with God. Who knows the workings of God, what he chooses to do or not do? We constantly climb over each other's backs reaching for the forbidden fruit, so that we may pat ourselves on the back or receive praise from men based on our self-professed knowledge.

Colossians 2:8-9 (KJV)
8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:18-19 (KJV)
18Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. 19[For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.]

Great scriptures and very true Post.
BTW
I don't profess great knowledge, I just accept the plain scripture on a subject, that is enough for me

Elin · Mar 14, 2013

cfultz3 said:

I would say that first of all, "assuming" is probably not a good thing to do.
It's best to stay with what is actually stated.

Secondly, I would ask if you really think this is the purport of what I stated.

Thirdly, I would point out that you should review what I stated, paying particular attention to what I did state, and what I did not state.

And fourthly, to what I did state, I will add that all believers have the indwelling Holy Spirit as their guide, who illumines God's word to them, which does not mean he gives revelation of new truth, nor that he gives the explanation of all difficult passages in Scripture to our satisfaction.

Rather the guidance of the Holy Spirit is the development of our capacity to appreciate and appropriate God's truth which is already revealed in his word, to make it meaningful in thought and daily living, to teach us all the things necessary to know for salvation and Christian living.

The believer has no promise of inerrancy in his understanding.

Elin · Mar 14, 2013

zone said:

great post, Elin.

just in case you might have thought the pic was congratulatory towards you, for some unknown 'victory'...

it wasn't. that would be childish, and missing the point entirely.

it was a YES concerning Truth.
i know it when i see it.
love Kath

I knew that. . .

Elin · Mar 14, 2013

Scribe said:

You will find that at post #117, or here, and there are more.

cfultz3 · Mar 14, 2013

Elin said:

I would say that first of all, "assuming" is probably not a good thing to do.
It's best to stay with what is actually stated.

Secondly, I would ask if you really think this is the purport of what I stated.

Thirdly, I would point out that you should review what I stated, paying particular attention to what I did state, and what I did not state.

And fourthly, to what I did state, I will add that all believers have the indwelling Holy Spirit as their guide, who illumines God's word to them, which does not mean he gives revelation of new truth, nor that he gives the explanation of all difficult passages in Scripture to our satisfaction.

Rather the guidance of the Holy Spirit is the development of our capacity to appreciate and appropriate God's truth which is already revealed in his word, to make it meaningful in thought and daily living, to teach us all the things necessary to know for salvation and Christian living.

The believer has no promise of inerrancy in his understanding.

So then, we, as believers, have the Spirit of Truth? The same Spirit which leads to the Truth?

Elin · Mar 14, 2013

mark54 said:

I dunno'. . .and the Word was God. . .The Word became flesh

seems pretty clear to me.

cfultz3 · Mar 14, 2013

cfultz3 said:

That is, Who leads us to Truth?

Elin · Mar 14, 2013

mark54 said:

Seems pretty clear to me. . .and the Word was God. . .The Word became flesh

Elin · Mar 14, 2013

mark54 said:

I dunno'. . .and the Word was God. . .The Word became flesh

seems pretty simple to me.

Elin · Mar 14, 2013

cfultz3 said:

We get our truth from the word of God, which function of the Holy Spirit is to illumine.
We check out our understanding of illumination by measuring it against the rest of the word of God.

The apostles got their truth from the Holy Spirit directly.
They wrote the word of God, which is now the source of the truth which function of the Holy Spirit is to illumine to us.

The word of God is the sum total of our truth.

cfultz3 · Mar 14, 2013

Elin said:

That I can agree to. The apostles were given Truth directly from the Spirit and we are directed to the written word by that same Spirit who leads to Truth which is found in Scripture.

cfultz3 · Mar 14, 2013

Elin said:

We get our truth from the word of God, which function of the Holy Spirit is to illumine.
We check out our understanding of illumination by measuring it against the rest of the word of God.

The apostles got their truth from the Holy Spirit directly.
They wrote the word of God, which is now the source of the truth which function of the Holy Spirit is to illumine to us.

The word of God is the sum total of our truth.

I am still in agreement to the 'last edited' part also.

RickShafer · Mar 14, 2013

My answers in red italics

mark54 said:

So is your logic what you use to refuse to accept the plain words of Christ, AND Paul for that matter?
tHE hOLY sPIRIT WAS ON cHRIST in bodily shape/form(Do you mean at His baptism? - That was a sign)
Amazing what you can do I guess when you try (It truly is, not reading the gospels. - Luke 1:35)
Would you like to explain to me why neither Paul, Peter, James or John plainly commanded anyone to believe Christ was God Himself, let alone state this belief was needed unto salvation.(my goodness man you are mad! - Acts 2:38? John1:1? - Please read who made who?) As to you this is the core of the faith
Do you believe they did not have the spiritual insight you and others do today,(No, they followed the leading of the Holy Spirit which said under no other name can one be saved, and also in Christ the fulness of the Godhead dwelled bodily)or did they woefully fail their readers by not plainly and clearly telling them the belief upon which eternal life hinged?(No they didn't, because they could write{and they did), and those given eyes to see can read{which we do}.)

unclefester · Mar 14, 2013

mark54 said:

No expectations .... just more immature folly ...... and scripture.

Hebrews 1:8,9 - But to the Son He (God) says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

Revelation 1:8 - “I Am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Revelation 22:13 - “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”... 22:16 - “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”

cfultz3 · Mar 15, 2013

Elin,

I wish to take this opportunity to extend to you an open apology. After having posted #871 in explaining yourself when I said that you were calling Christ a liar by me thinking you were saying that we now do not have the Spirit of Truth, I understand now that you were talking about the different methods the Spirit used to talk to the apostles and how He talks to us now.

"I apologize to you for me having assumed you were denying the administration of the Spirit in a child of God."

Thank you,
Chris

mark54 · Mar 15, 2013

RickShafer said:

My answers in red italics

mark54 said:

So it was only a sign at Jesus Baptism? Where does it say that?
Jesus lived in the power of the Holy Spirit
The miracles he performeds he acknowledged were by the power of the Holy Spirit
He spoke the word of God because the Spirit was on him without limit
It is all plainly wirttwen in the Gospels

And no I am not mad
If anyone believes Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God 1John4:15
There is no sacripture that says a person must believe Jesus is God Himself unto salvation, for even Trinitarian ministers admit there is no plain scripture that states Christ is God himself in the bible. You need to have a rethink
So why did those Apostles nopt plainly and clearly tell people Christ was God Himself and they must believe that unto salvation. Bluff won't work I am afraid

'Those given eyes to read can see
That pretty much sums up the problem'
Jesus said
I praise you Lord of Heaven and earth for you have hidden these tjhings from the wise and learned and revealed them to little childrten
Yes Father for this was your good pleasure

Those with simple faith can read the plain word

Now this is eternall life(note what constitutes eternal life) that they may know you(the Father), the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sentJohn17:3)

The Father is greater than I John 14:28

The Father is greater than all John 10:29

Yet for us, there is but ONE GOD, THE Father, from whom all things came and for whom we life, and ONE LORD JESUS CHRIST, through whom all things came and through whom we live 1Cor8:6

No one has seen God at anytime
1jOHN4:15

No one has seen the Father excvept he who is from God, only he has seen the Father John6:46

So Jesus said no one has seen the Father, and John said, no onew has seen God. Could they be sopeaking of the same person? I think they are

Are you mad to refuse to accept such plain scripture in stead of contradicting it in favour of what does not plainly state Christ is God Himself?

Those given eyes to read can see

Absolutely, and those blinded by the academic mind of man cannot

mark54 · Mar 15, 2013

unclefester said:

I amc afraid it is folly. Christ plainly states there is only one true God, the Father, you refuse to accept his words, and the requirement of belief he himself laid down unto salvation, that is folly. And Hebrews 1:9 puts it well, thank you for quoting it
Who do you think is the God of the one true omnipotent God?
I haven't heard of him, can you tell me who he is?

But like I say, hardly any ministers will stand in the pulpit and state what a few of you do on websites like these. I see you haven't responded to the point. Let me ask you again.
Should ministers be in the pulpit if they refuse to plainly state what to you is the core of the Christian faith and salvific belief as to who Christ must be believed to be unto salvation and the consequences of getting it wrong?

If uyou don't answer, I guess I will have to take it that you see nothing wrong with a minister refusing to plainly state from the pulpit what to you is the core of the Chrisdtian faith and they have no obligation or duty to plainly srtate from the pulpit salvific belief/requirement unto salvation and the consequences of getting it wrong

I guess you and others believe it ihas been left to you on the internet to proclaim the true Gospel
Aren't you frustrated that you and others are languishing on the internet while those who refuse to plainly preach the truth and the consequences of getting it wrong are in the pulpit?

mark54 · Mar 15, 2013

Elin said:

Though you may receive likes from posts that prove you cannot address any of the questions put to you, it I note , that someone who believes they preach 'the meat' on this website has no answers to any questions put to them on this subject
Such is the lot of those who come on the internet believing they know much and can teach those less spiritually enblightened than themselves

But I have answered your point you keep repeating to deflect answering
questions put to you on the Trinity thread,
Though obviously you cannot address any of my points put to you

loveme1 · Mar 15, 2013

Look how Peter summarizes:

Acts 10

[SUP]34 [/SUP]Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
[SUP]35 [/SUP]But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all
[SUP]37 [/SUP]That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
[SUP]38 [/SUP]How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
[SUP]40 [/SUP]Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
[SUP]42 [/SUP]And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
[SUP]43 [/SUP]To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
[SUP]47 [/SUP]Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Sovereignty of God and Moral Responsibility of Man

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