Is it OK to lie?

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inlow

Junior Member
#61
Jun 17, 2017
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#61
This is a very nasty world, and can be very habit forming. So I will tell you what I taught my son.

It is never okay to tell a lie or hide something, or keep secrets unless it is for a surprise birthday party. If someone is telling you to lie to people or to not tell you something- then they are probably doing something wrong. There is nothing I will do or say to you that you should not be comfortable telling your mother or a teacher, and if your mother, a teacher, or any grown up or child tells you to lie, not to tell anyone, or to keep something a secret, it may be something that can hurt you, them, or both.

I felt I had to be very extreme with him on these kinds of things. One small lie can lead to a bigger lie, he will eventually learn the difference between altering the truth so he doesn't hurt someone's feelings and lying to keep someone out of trouble cause he doesn't know what to do)

Plus, I had to fight the powers that be on his mothers side (who were not good influences at all)

Sorry for the long winded post about it. I just feel like everything is a seed being planted. Sometimes the truth hurts.

NOW! Remember about little white lies, There is a difference between an opinion and a lie- so in the case of a wmoan asking me about her appearance,

She could look amazing in my eyes, but terrible in her mothers. So me saying she looks great or that she looks terrible is only an opinion of the situation, and I don't think that is really what she is asking.

Does she look appropriate for the event and is the dress (or whatever) wrinkled, does she not look sloppy. That is the hidden question I would be answering.
 
Rosemaryx

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
#62
May 3, 2017
3,713
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#62
renewed_hope said:
My bf asked me the other day if I needed help financially in getting my car fixed and I said no and Im doing fine. I think this is a good example of saying a lie can be okay
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Hi renewed...It could of been a way God was blessing you through your best friend offering help to you...Sometimes we miss God's blessing because of our pride, lying is not ok, no matter how we dress it up...xox...
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#63
Feb 15, 2017
8,879
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#63
Tommy379 said:
If a woman ask you something about her appearance..... yes lie.
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I agree with that.
One day my wife asked me if the dress she was wearing made her bum look big.

I said "No is all the cake and chocolate you eat that makes it look big"

A couple of days later I could see the error of my ways, well at least in the left eye as it started to open up, the right eye followed a couple days after that.
 
lightbearer

lightbearer

Senior Member
#64
Jun 17, 2017
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HBG. Pa. USA
#64
Willie-T said:
Elijah and Rahab, just off the top of my head.
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Where were they praised for lying. Not where are their lies recorded, but where were they praised for it? I am not aware of it that is why I am asking.

Thanks in advance
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#65
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
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#65
Silverwings said:
The prophets, and the spies were saved from certain death, I think that takes preeminence in Gods eyes, over the letter of the law.And when I read the report of Elijah staying in the widows house , the appearance of evil never entered my mind, I considered him to be of good moral character, and I would imagine that the wording the appearance of evil was added much later to the bible, and was not then a consideration.
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No, and many things "never enter the mind" of those of us who have the "advantage" of a History Book that has been impressed upon us as a book that is perfect in every way. As I have said a few times here, it takes learning to first "put on our sandals" when we read the Bible to see situations, not as we are told to see things 3,000 years later, but as the people saw them as they actually lived them.

Today, if we saw a preacher coming out of an Adult Bookstore, we would roast him alive on FaceBook as soon as we could grab our phones..... let alone, if we knew he was living with a widowed woman who was about his own age.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#66
#66
Willie-T said:
Elijah is a bit involved, so I'll let you study that some about the 100 prophets he hid in a cave, and the year he spent hiding in a widow's house (talk about "the appearance of evil"). Now, I'm sure some here will say both of those were just innocent "deceptions", not real lies, but I think we all know better.

But, Rahab flat lied, bare-faced, to the cops while the spies hid and listened to her tell the lie.
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Can't comment on Elijah because I don't know where to look, but Rahab? Rahab the prostitute? Does that not give who she was to begin with? If that's not enough, she gave the reason. She knew the Israelites by stories coming in on what they were doing before hand. (Dried Red Sea. Two attacks on the Amorites.) She acknowledge the obvious, the Lord was on their side. And she was out to protect her family.

She may have become a relative of Jesus, but she wasn't that woman yet. She knew Jericho was a goner, and she wanted her family saved.

I don't even know if she had heard of the Ten Commandments yet, once more worried about keeping them. She definitely wasn't into keeping the commandment two before the "don't bear false witness" one.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#67
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
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#67
notmyown said:
do you mean the widow in Zarephath, to whom Elijah was sent? (Lk 4)

wasn't it Obadiah who hid the prophets?

God doesn't commend Rahab the harlot for lying in Hebrews, does He?
and since God cannot lie, and we are to be like Him.... :confused:
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Obadiah initiated it, but Elijah took over, and sent Obadiah to King Ahab to announce he was back.
 
notmyown

notmyown

Senior Member
#68
May 26, 2016
4,656
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#68
Willie-T said:
Obadiah initiated it, but Elijah took over, and sent Obadiah to King Ahab to announce he was back.
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he did send Obadiah to tell Ahab he was there.

i'm not saying the record of God's people tells us they were perfect. i rather like that God still calls her "Rahab the harlot" in Heb 11. it lets me know God forgives sinners, like me.

not that i should be antinomian, though.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#69
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
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#69
notmyown said:
he did send Obadiah to tell Ahab he was there.

i'm not saying the record of God's people tells us they were perfect. i rather like that God still calls her "Rahab the harlot" in Heb 11. it lets me know God forgives sinners, like me.

not that i should be antinomian, though.
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I take it, then, that you would have felt you had to follow a law you thought told you not to lie, and that you would have, thus, turned the spies in to the authorities? Or, would you have lied like Rahab did......... even though you believe you know the Commandments?
 
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preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#70
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
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#70
God uses man's infirmities and weaknesses as a secondary means for his glory, even lying.

It is not an endorsement of lying.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#71
#71
Willie-T said:
That was a "given", of course..... But, it IS a situation we all may find ourselves in. How do we plan to handle it?
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I told you. I don't think withholding truth is a lie. Lying is lying.

What would I have said if I were a Ten Boom? Not a fair question, considering the Ten Booms got caught. But if a cop asked me the last time I saw a Jew? My honest answer would be, "I saw Glenn Hurricane Schwartz on TV telling us this storm and record cold was coming. Outside of him., I don't usually go around figuring out who is Jewish and who isn't. I can't even tell you who is Catholic and who isn't. Geesh! I can't even tell who is Philadelphian and who isn't."

If I were hiding people in my house to avoid them being killed, well first thing I'd do is build a hiding place for them to go anytime the door opened, and have some kind of signal for them to know the door was opened.

Someone looks for them? I'd stall them. Say the hiding place was in the basement. First thing I'd do when the cops demand to come in is block the stairs to my second floor. What will the cops do? Push me out of the way to go to my second floor. I didn't lie.

Hubby wants to know if we can buy a sports car? (Well, I let hubby know how we're doing financially, so he knows the only way we're getting a sports car is he can prove how he plans to keep it and our house at the same time, but let's say he went impulsive for a moment.) I tell him the pros and cons. Truthfully, I want a sports car more than he does, but we both know there is no sports car in our future. It's like wanting the winning lottery ticket. Something to play with in our minds, but not in our lives.

I've been married for 37 years. To this day, my Dad likes my hubby greatly. He does not know hubby doesn't like him. I have never lied to either one of them about their relationship. I have never lied to either one of them about each other. I simply don't tell what doesn't need to be said. Hubby and I are both insomniacs, we both have digestive issues, and we're both disabled. Sure enough, one of those issues came up every time I was going to visit Dad. Always told Dad why hubby didn't go from one of those choices. Didn't tell him, he wouldn't go because Dad didn't believe hubby couldn't eat red meat, so Dad snuck in something with red meat onto the menu (usually gravy), just to prove it to hubby red meat is good and it's all in hubby's head. Sometimes I couldn't go for the same physical reason. And often, I just knew I'd be sick for three days after going to Dad's house.

I do not lie. I do withhold truth. I'm sure John's doctors told him the truth all along the way. Ends up, his first memories of how bad it was only came when I told him. I didn't tell him until the latest "this is really bad" was over.

The one I remember the most was when he figured out how deep his bedsore was. Part of the regiment was when the nurses changed the bandage, they'd measure the wound, while the other one wrote down the measurements. They never said what type of measurement they were using, so both of us were trying to figure out how it could be that deep when he wasn't even that wide. (We thought inches. They talked centimeters. lol) I almost fainted when my surgeon showed me gallstones on an Xray. It wasn't the gallstones that did me in. (You can't see gallstones. They're black holes in an Xray. lol) It was my belt buckle. It looked like I swallowed it. The doctor had to help me sit down immediately.

So I really didn't want to see bedsore, but I did. I translated it to sizes for him, and faced him when I said it. "Big enough to put a coffee mug in." That he got. By the time he came home it was "only would fit a shot glass."

Honest! This is me honest. I withhold only for the good of someone else.

Seems like you're pushing to teach people it's okay to lie. It's never okay to lie. Every single lie we ever said was put on Jesus at that cross. That is the penalty for one lie. Separation from God, death, and hell. We're not supposed to be teaching people how to be good at sinning. We're supposed to be teaching how not to sin!
 
notmyown

notmyown

Senior Member
#72
May 26, 2016
4,656
1,106
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#72
Willie-T said:
I take it, then, that you would have felt you had to follow a law you thought told you not to lie, and that you would have, thus, turned the spies in to the authorities? Or, would you have lied like Rahab did......... even though you believe you know the Commandments?
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aw, Willie, i'm not talking about not bearing false witness against my neighbor.

i'm saying the goal is to be like Jesus, and He didn't lie. i hope if i were in that situation, i would trust God to provide a way out without me being disobedient.

hypotheticals are hard, because i'm not actually faced with it. :eek:
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#73
#73
Willie-T said:
We recently paid someone's tuition. We have asked to remain anonymous. Should we "confess" to that support if asked by anyone?
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We had a friend who was born disabled and had a 12 year old daughter. Back in those days, you got the lowest amount for SSDI in that case, so she was living on what in today's money would be roughly $650-700 a month, and it was Christmas time. She had no money to buy her daughter Christmas presents.

John knew I loved playing board games, but he hates playing them. He didn't think out that first Christmas very well. He gave me a bunch of my favorite board games. Because he's a nice guy, he played them with me a couple of times. So, used, but only used 2-3 times. They went to that daughter. But I know getting hand-me-downs isn't the same thing as buying the gift itself, so we slipped some money through her mail slot after seeing her go into her house after church one week. She's in a wheelchair, so we had time to run around the corner, before she could open her door. lol

Next week, she did ask everyone point-blank if it was them. And yes, she asked us point-blank too. We asked, "How much?" And she told! We got excited with her, and asked if she knew what she was going to use it for yet. By the end of that day, she narrowed it down to three couples. We were one of the three.

Never lied!
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#74
#74
renewed_hope said:
Look, you all assume a lot and I mean that respectfully. We are only dating so, my money issues are mine and mine alone to deal with. Dating couples don't have to tell each other everything, if we were engaged it would be totally different.

Lynn, I think you are the only person who actually understand my situation and i appreciate you not passing judgement. I did thank him for the offer and said his giving nature is one of the many things that I love about him :)
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BTW, you have to keep remembering I'm the weird one. We were engaged a week after we started dating. I'm just not normal. lol
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#75
#75
Willie-T said:
A scenario:
An angry mob comes up to you, saying: "We are going to burn out that preacher of yours, do you know where he lives?"

You are very familiar with his house, but do you answer the howling mob with his address?
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Truth?

I'd tell them to hold on a minute, want to ask hubby something.

Then I'd go in and ask John what I should say. I suspect I know what John would say, so even before he is at the door, I'm already saying it. Something close to Fork off!

Yup, chances are good the angry mob takes it out on us. I've done that enough to know what that looks like. Their attention is diverted long enough that by the time they remember their original mission, the person they want to get has been signaled to run. And on a good day the firefighters and cops are at our door dealing with our house burning down, an angry mob, and maybe saving our lives. Chances are good they won't be able to do that last one. BUT the preacher is still preaching and we're finally home. Really Home!

I know this sounds like a wet-behind-the-ear kid who has no idea how I would react in a bad situation, but I'm me. I have fought off (and lost) five rapists. I have NOT ducked behind walls when bullets were shot outside my office doorway. (I figured if I heard the shot, it didn't hit me, and it was too late to hide now.) I have been beaten down by bullies so they wouldn't go after my friends. I have figured out what to do if the choice came between John going without chemo therapy or without a house. I have faced a large mob of kids alone after they broke my car's back window. I have stood by people when everyone else walked away. Sometimes help comes. Usually it doesn't. Usually I'm it for help, and as useless as I am as a fighter, and as depleted I am in strength, God has made this known to me. I am the help, even if I make for really lousy help. All I can usually offer is "Gimme three steps, gimme three steps, mister." But three steps is sometimes enough for the victim to get away.

[video=youtube;SM3jgkChV6M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM3jgkChV6M[/video]
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#76
#76
BillG said:
I agree with that.
One day my wife asked me if the dress she was wearing made her bum look big.

I said "No is all the cake and chocolate you eat that makes it look big"

A couple of days later I could see the error of my ways, well at least in the left eye as it started to open up, the right eye followed a couple days after that.
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Frankly, you'd be more likely to be missing my cakes and chocolate than your eyesight. You're eyesight came back long before you'd be getting any more of my cakes or chocolates. Go get your own. I'm eating for two now -- you and me. lol
 
P

plainguy

Banned
#77
Nov 23, 2016
510
37
0
#77
notmyown said:
aw, Willie, i'm not talking about not bearing false witness against my neighbor.

i'm saying the goal is to be like Jesus, and He didn't lie. i hope if i were in that situation, i would trust God to provide a way out without me being disobedient.

hypotheticals are hard, because i'm not actually faced with it. :eek:
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And don't take it out til' we tell you to :mad:

 
D

Depleted

Guest
#78
#78
Willie-T said:
No, and many things "never enter the mind" of those of us who have the "advantage" of a History Book that has been impressed upon us as a book that is perfect in every way. As I have said a few times here, it takes learning to first "put on our sandals" when we read the Bible to see situations, not as we are told to see things 3,000 years later, but as the people saw them as they actually lived them.

Today, if we saw a preacher coming out of an Adult Bookstore, we would roast him alive on FaceBook as soon as we could grab our phones..... let alone, if we knew he was living with a widowed woman who was about his own age.
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You would roast them. Has nothing to do with the Bible or what others would do.

Me? I know why he was in the adult bookstore, and why other men and women from the congregation were coming out with him. They had been praying at that book store, for months, that the Lord would shut it down. (He did, btw.)

I'm not the one trying so hard to "catch" others with these scenarios. I know what the Bible says, and tell that over Willieisms.
 
seed_time_harvest

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#79
Dec 9, 2011
13,715
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#79
Willie-T said:
Is it ever OK to lie?

I say, "Yes", it sometimes is.... AND God will likely praise you for it. How say ye?
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During the holocaust many Germans hid Jews and probably lied to save much life,so then IMO,since we know that GOD looks at the heart I will say It’s the persons motive that counts.
 
Marcelo

Marcelo

Senior Member
#80
Feb 4, 2016
2,359
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#80
I refrain from lying as much as possible because I have poor memory and it would be impossible for me to maintain a lie without ever falling into contradiction.
 
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