My declaration does not change the truth that is wthin the Scriptures for all us believvers. Paul essentially says, believers WERE once sinners. They do not stay as sinners.. Paul says, shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? But by your way of thinking the answer would be a yes? If you do not continue in sin (As Paul tells us to do), then what does that make you?
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So you prefer to believe what is said of this man? Big deal. You have already erased all your credibility. Bitterness does that to a man.
At this point you can only engender strife and not edification. Go ahead and take the testimony of men over the testimony of God. I know what God did in my heart and I have no fear of losing my salvation. Nor do I fear going insane and killing a bunch of people.
Make all the accusations you wish but in the end only God knows in these situations. You may think you know but you really do not.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
At this point you can only engender strife and not edification. Go ahead and take the testimony of men over the testimony of God. I know what God did in my heart and I have no fear of losing my salvation. Nor do I fear going insane and killing a bunch of people.
Make all the accusations you wish but in the end only God knows in these situations. You may think you know but you really do not.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Also, I want to add that you want to use 1 John 1:8 against me. If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. But this is in context to those who say they have fellowship with God and walk in darkness (1 John 1:7). It is a description of the modern day Classic OSAS proponent. Not the OSAS Liite proponent or the Biblical Conditional Salvationist who believes in confessing one's sins as per 1 John 1:9.
V
It makes me saved. What this crock makes you is lost. Or how will you twist ""If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us" (1 John 1:8)?
Don't you dare say, "That's written to unbelievers" because it is not. John begins his epistle by stating that what he has heard and seen from the beginning of his ministry, Whom he touched and knew and Whom was made manifest, he has shared so that those to whom he writes in this letter "so that you too may have fellowship with us" -- and what has partnership has righteousness with lawlessness, or what has darkness to do with light (2 Corinthians 6:14)? John wouldn't be "fellowshiping" with the lost, now would he? So the passage is written to believers, likely John's former church at Ephesus.
So go ahead ... twist away. We all know you will. That's what false prophets and teachers do.
Don't you dare say, "That's written to unbelievers" because it is not. John begins his epistle by stating that what he has heard and seen from the beginning of his ministry, Whom he touched and knew and Whom was made manifest, he has shared so that those to whom he writes in this letter "so that you too may have fellowship with us" -- and what has partnership has righteousness with lawlessness, or what has darkness to do with light (2 Corinthians 6:14)? John wouldn't be "fellowshiping" with the lost, now would he? So the passage is written to believers, likely John's former church at Ephesus.
So go ahead ... twist away. We all know you will. That's what false prophets and teachers do.
S
And yet we all sin, even if inadvertently. The difference is we pursue a different lot and live not for ourselves; i.e. we don't pursue sin. I hate to play context wars with Scripture, though, so to each their own. 
Which is sound reasoning, but irrelevant here.
There is no "if." We can choose to live in sin or abstain from it. The latter does not suggest we are immune to it.
Which is sound reasoning, but irrelevant here.
There is no "if." We can choose to live in sin or abstain from it. The latter does not suggest we are immune to it.
Yes, the OSAS proponent who believes they can sin and still be saved (Not the OSAS Lite proponent) is saying they have no sin and they do not need to confess of it because all their sin is forgiven them: past, present, and future. But John says, if we confesss our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the light as he is in the light, then the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. This is in context to 1 John 2:3-6.
1 John 1:8 is indeed written to believers. It is warning them not to be deceived by the false teaching of the sessionists who thought they could sin and still be saved. John was warning the brethren not to fall for this deception.
1 John 1:8 is indeed written to believers. It is warning them not to be deceived by the false teaching of the sessionists who thought they could sin and still be saved. John was warning the brethren not to fall for this deception.
And yet we all sin, even if inadvertently. The difference is we pursue a different lot and live not for ourselves; i.e. we don't pursue sin. I hate to play context wars with Scripture, though, so to each their own.
Which is sound reasoning, but irrelevant here.
There is no "if." We can choose to live in sin or abstain from it. The latter does not suggest we are immune to it.
Which is sound reasoning, but irrelevant here.
There is no "if." We can choose to live in sin or abstain from it. The latter does not suggest we are immune to it.
Note: When I say that they will commit these types of sin on Paul's lists, I am referencing those believers who habitually do those sins as a way of life with no repentance or confession and or desire to change (i.e. To have Godly sorrow and repentance).
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You said all sin is forgiven: Past, present, and future. You believe all sin is sin. So this man who believed in Eternal Security is saved according to the two statements that you already said (Which agrees with what he taught). But then you backpedal and say sin is not all the same and admit that no murderer has eternal life abiding within them. What you believe is contradictory. Either you are saved of all sin: past, present, and future, or you are not. As I said before, hate is the equivalent of murder. Have you not hated a brother before?
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K
Nobody has ever been without sin, yes.
And once you accept Jesus as your Lord, you are not magically from day one sin free. This is also a yes.
However from here the bible says through Christ ( Holy Spirit ) all things are possible, so to say from there that a person with the Holy Spirit's guidance can not eventually abstain from all sin would be a false teaching. For if you say a person can not become free of all sin eventually in their walk, then you take away from God's ability and put limitations on Him.
Name one person in this forum who says that repentance is not essential to being saved. That is part of the entire justification process.
"And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. [SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” Acts 2:38-39
Not ONE SINGLE PERSON has said that we have a free pass if we believe in eternal security.
The only one creating straw men every other post and knocking them down is you, Jason.
Those of us who believe in eternal security are saying one thing - Jesus is the one who calls us, and saves us. We do not save ourselves by our works.
"Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord, nor of me his prisoner, but share in suffering for the gospel by the power of God, [SUP]9 [/SUP]who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began," 1 Tim. 1:8-9
Do you understand that? Not by works!
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, [SUP]9 [/SUP]not a result of works, so that no one may boast. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Eph. 2:8-10
Notice how in the above verses, God saves us. IT IS NOT OF OUR OWN DOING! Then, when we are saved, we walk with God, and do the good works he has purposed for our lives!
First comes justification, which is eternal, then sanctification, which is the process of walking with Christ the rest of our life. That includes falling down, confessing our sins, and learning and growing, as we in turn disciple others.
"Finally, then, brothers, we ask and urge you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God, just as you are doing, that you do so more and more. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For you know what instructions we gave you through the Lord Jesus.[SUP]3[/SUP]For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality;[SUP]4 [/SUP]that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, [SUP]5 [/SUP]not inthe passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God; [SUP]6 [/SUP]that no one transgress andwrong his brother in this matter, because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as we told you beforehand and solemnly warned you. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For God has not called us for impurity, but in holiness" 1 Thess. 4:1-7
Notice that our SANCTIFICATION includes staying away from sexual immorality, lust, offending our brother. This is only a partial list of the way God would have us to walk.
"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, [SUP]10 [/SUP]nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." 1 Cor. 6:9-11
Please note that although we were sinners before God saved us, he has justified us, and sanctified us. This is NOT about some kind of ethical development but rather God setting us apart, and making us holy. It means "you were claimed by God as his own and made a member of His holy people."
"And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.[SUP]11 [/SUP]And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices,which can never take away sins. [SUP]12 [/SUP]But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, [SUP]13 [/SUP]waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified." Hebrews 10:10-14
"And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. [SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” Acts 2:38-39
Not ONE SINGLE PERSON has said that we have a free pass if we believe in eternal security.
The only one creating straw men every other post and knocking them down is you, Jason.
Those of us who believe in eternal security are saying one thing - Jesus is the one who calls us, and saves us. We do not save ourselves by our works.
"Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord, nor of me his prisoner, but share in suffering for the gospel by the power of God, [SUP]9 [/SUP]who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began," 1 Tim. 1:8-9
Do you understand that? Not by works!
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, [SUP]9 [/SUP]not a result of works, so that no one may boast. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Eph. 2:8-10
Notice how in the above verses, God saves us. IT IS NOT OF OUR OWN DOING! Then, when we are saved, we walk with God, and do the good works he has purposed for our lives!
First comes justification, which is eternal, then sanctification, which is the process of walking with Christ the rest of our life. That includes falling down, confessing our sins, and learning and growing, as we in turn disciple others.
"Finally, then, brothers, we ask and urge you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God, just as you are doing, that you do so more and more. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For you know what instructions we gave you through the Lord Jesus.[SUP]3[/SUP]For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality;[SUP]4 [/SUP]that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, [SUP]5 [/SUP]not inthe passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God; [SUP]6 [/SUP]that no one transgress andwrong his brother in this matter, because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as we told you beforehand and solemnly warned you. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For God has not called us for impurity, but in holiness" 1 Thess. 4:1-7
Notice that our SANCTIFICATION includes staying away from sexual immorality, lust, offending our brother. This is only a partial list of the way God would have us to walk.
"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, [SUP]10 [/SUP]nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." 1 Cor. 6:9-11
Please note that although we were sinners before God saved us, he has justified us, and sanctified us. This is NOT about some kind of ethical development but rather God setting us apart, and making us holy. It means "you were claimed by God as his own and made a member of His holy people."
"And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.[SUP]11 [/SUP]And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices,which can never take away sins. [SUP]12 [/SUP]But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, [SUP]13 [/SUP]waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified." Hebrews 10:10-14
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