I had to read your quotes twice about RC Sproul, before I understood that what he was talking is when: You reduce GOD to only Love, Grace, and Mercy, without Sovereignty, without Justice, without Holiness, and without Wrath; you have created a man-made idol for yourself; and NOT the Reality of GOD. SO I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY, and therefore the Easy Believism with their LOVE only god, worship a man made idol.
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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I had to read your quotes twice about RC Sproul, before I understood that what he was talking is when: You reduce GOD to only Love, Grace, and Mercy, without Sovereignty, without Justice, without Holiness, and without Wrath; you have created a man-made idol for yourself; and NOT the Reality of GOD. SO I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY, and therefore the Easy Believism with their LOVE only god, worship a man made idol.
Hi posthuman,
Remember when this happened on that beautiful day of fishin; it was appropriately named a "Rats Nest" or backlash, which is what it is like to untwist Studyman's tangled mess of junk theology.
remember how Alexander solved the Gordian knot?
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Hi Sackcloth-N-Ashes, nice to meet you and I do not believe we have had a conversation as yet but just want to say welcome and thank you for your reply. I believe the same as you when we rely on "self" our lives can become a tangled mess. I believe Jesus when He say's, "without Him we can do nothing."
God bless!
John15:5
God bless!
John15:5
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
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I certainly will not be judging whether a person is doing what the Lord wants them to do, there are billions of individual situations that are complex and for a normal man, impossible to adjudicate. So don't worry, I will not be the judge of anyone.
There is, however, a sign that generally can be seen by men who are putting their faith in Jesus to work, and helping to build his kingdom here on earth. These good works are to be done so that men may see these good works, and by doing this, the scriptures say we glorify our Father which is in heaven. (Matthew 5:16) So let your light so shine, or IOW let your good works shine forth.
God will do the judging, as to who is faithful.
There is, however, a sign that generally can be seen by men who are putting their faith in Jesus to work, and helping to build his kingdom here on earth. These good works are to be done so that men may see these good works, and by doing this, the scriptures say we glorify our Father which is in heaven. (Matthew 5:16) So let your light so shine, or IOW let your good works shine forth.
God will do the judging, as to who is faithful.
Then you would be WRONG, if you believe that. HE CERTAINLY WAS WRITING ABOUT INDIVIDUAL SALVATION:
Titus 3:5-8 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
8 This saying is trustworthy. I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed God might be careful to devote themselves to good works. These are good and profitable for everyone.
Titus 3:10 (HCSB)
10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,
THAT'S ONE.
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Thank you posthuman, and yes I did learn a lesson from Alexander for sure, even if I did have to look up the answer....
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According to the ancient chronicler Arrian, the impetuous Alexander was instantly “seized with an ardent desire” to untie the Gordian knot. After wrestling with it for a time and finding no success, he stepped back from the mass of gnarled ropes and proclaimed, “It makes no difference how they are loosed.” He then drew his sword and sliced the knot in half with a single stroke.
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According to the ancient chronicler Arrian, the impetuous Alexander was instantly “seized with an ardent desire” to untie the Gordian knot. After wrestling with it for a time and finding no success, he stepped back from the mass of gnarled ropes and proclaimed, “It makes no difference how they are loosed.” He then drew his sword and sliced the knot in half with a single stroke.
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Sorry, VCO, do you wake up every morning in a contentious mood.
Godsgrace101 says that we're all on the same side of the fence, and the unbelievers are on the other side of the fence.
And you respond by saying, NO, only born-again Christians are saved.
And then in ALL CAPS, you say, YOUR THEOLOGY IS FLAWED. (which means you are screaming at him).
You seriously need to take a deep breath and get off your high rocking horse of theological perfection, and give a poor Christian the good news without spitting in his face. I know you are intimately close to Jesus, so it seems to me there would be some love and mercy and proper instruction, instead of screaming and tantrum like behavior.
Read 1 Corinthians 13 many times, for a man without charity will not be in the KOG.
Godsgrace101 says that we're all on the same side of the fence, and the unbelievers are on the other side of the fence.
And you respond by saying, NO, only born-again Christians are saved.
And then in ALL CAPS, you say, YOUR THEOLOGY IS FLAWED. (which means you are screaming at him).
You seriously need to take a deep breath and get off your high rocking horse of theological perfection, and give a poor Christian the good news without spitting in his face. I know you are intimately close to Jesus, so it seems to me there would be some love and mercy and proper instruction, instead of screaming and tantrum like behavior.
Read 1 Corinthians 13 many times, for a man without charity will not be in the KOG.
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John 8:39-41
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
A
You are full of baloney.
I highlighted it not to justify sin but to show that grace was needed.
To show the difference between Islam and true Gospel message.
I am not surprised that you missed the point.
Yes David was a sinner, a murderer and an adulterer yet He is called a man after God's own heart.
I believe this wholeheartedly and it's an example of God's grace.
However Muslims and fake Christian Demand perfect obedience to the Law, ignoring God's grace and love even for sinners
FYI the story about Abraham is about God's grace and Abraham's faith in the loving and forgiving and faithfulness of God and His promises....not Abraham's obedience or self righteousness.
I highlighted it not to justify sin but to show that grace was needed.
To show the difference between Islam and true Gospel message.
I am not surprised that you missed the point.
Yes David was a sinner, a murderer and an adulterer yet He is called a man after God's own heart.
I believe this wholeheartedly and it's an example of God's grace.
However Muslims and fake Christian Demand perfect obedience to the Law, ignoring God's grace and love even for sinners
FYI the story about Abraham is about God's grace and Abraham's faith in the loving and forgiving and faithfulness of God and His promises....not Abraham's obedience or self righteousness.
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there is a time scale problem nobody talks about. the pace of cellular evolution by random genetic mutation is waaaay slower than the speed at which environmental changes occur -- take for example wooly mammoth, it is presumed that animals 'adapted' to ice-age conditions and became thicker-skinned and furry and their blood changed to prevent clotting in cold environments.. and then again to adapt to warmer environs in inter-glacial periods, losing the fur, thinning the hide, changing the blood and the pores of skin etc. all by natural selection through random accumulation of individual beneficial mutations.
here's the issue: climate changes like ice ages seem to occur over periods of a few thousand years, maybe tens of thousands. random genetic mutations & natural selection takes place over millions & tens and hundreds of millions of years, a thousand times longer, 10,000 times longer than necessary for such adaption to 'keep up' with the pace of the changing environment. by the time a normal pachyderm population could have 'evolved' into a wooly, cold-ready version, 10 ice ages would have passed, 100 ice-ages, 1,000 ice-ages. ((accepting for sake of argument the time scales inferred from geology etc))
no way.
that paradigm requires creatures to already be slowly adapting to change 10 million years before such change begins to even happen.
these changes have to be already built-in in the dna otherwise no creature could ever randomly adapt in time to survive the pressure that selects the changes. the picture that makes sense is that the Creator has designed the creature to be ready for such climactic change and for such changes to be triggered across the whole population relatively simultaneously.
try floating this to the next person who tells you animals randomly evolve to adapt in some monte carlo method
or, give them example of birds, thought to be evolved from flightless lizards. random mutation is gradual process -- how do the first proto-birds with only barely little grotesque stubs of wings survive and learn to fly? the one-out-of-a-billion mutated lizard starts jumping off cliffs, still unable even to glide? and is super attractive to females because of its mutated, strange appearance and apparent suicidal behavior? such mutations aren't even beneficial until 10 million generations later. 99.99% of mutation is not beneficial, vast majority of mutations seen in nature affect reproduction making the creature unable to have children and pass on their deformity, and are definitely not more sexually attractive to 'normal' creatures. the whole process sounds clever, but is implausible & mathematically prohibitive without ever even going into the details of cellular changes.
here's the issue: climate changes like ice ages seem to occur over periods of a few thousand years, maybe tens of thousands. random genetic mutations & natural selection takes place over millions & tens and hundreds of millions of years, a thousand times longer, 10,000 times longer than necessary for such adaption to 'keep up' with the pace of the changing environment. by the time a normal pachyderm population could have 'evolved' into a wooly, cold-ready version, 10 ice ages would have passed, 100 ice-ages, 1,000 ice-ages. ((accepting for sake of argument the time scales inferred from geology etc))
no way.
that paradigm requires creatures to already be slowly adapting to change 10 million years before such change begins to even happen.
these changes have to be already built-in in the dna otherwise no creature could ever randomly adapt in time to survive the pressure that selects the changes. the picture that makes sense is that the Creator has designed the creature to be ready for such climactic change and for such changes to be triggered across the whole population relatively simultaneously.
try floating this to the next person who tells you animals randomly evolve to adapt in some monte carlo method
or, give them example of birds, thought to be evolved from flightless lizards. random mutation is gradual process -- how do the first proto-birds with only barely little grotesque stubs of wings survive and learn to fly? the one-out-of-a-billion mutated lizard starts jumping off cliffs, still unable even to glide? and is super attractive to females because of its mutated, strange appearance and apparent suicidal behavior? such mutations aren't even beneficial until 10 million generations later. 99.99% of mutation is not beneficial, vast majority of mutations seen in nature affect reproduction making the creature unable to have children and pass on their deformity, and are definitely not more sexually attractive to 'normal' creatures. the whole process sounds clever, but is implausible & mathematically prohibitive without ever even going into the details of cellular changes.
I think God is telling us to not fear science. I can thank God for blessing posthuman with a scientific brain, and his ability to make it mathematically intuitive, and that God allowed my mathematical intuition to work when I read about 10, or 100, or 1000 ice ages. May we love God with all our minds as well.
by the way, does this also apply against the likelihood that a single celled organism can evolve into multi-celled organism?
I've heard of illustrations of fertilized egg, multiply, cells become different for different organs of the multi-celled organism
and I've heard of "algae" (or fungus) where single-celled can somehow become multi-celled.
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At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure. Luke 10:21
And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. “And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. “Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come! If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell. Matthew 18:3-9
According to the verses above, little children can believe and they also can sin. They may grow and bear fruit, grow without fruit or they may not grow at all. Like soils where the seeds fell,as these little children grow, the seeds planted in them may be snatched out from them and some may fall away when troubles, persecutions, worries of this world and the deceitfulness of wealth chokes them.(matthew 13:1-23)
The enemy sowed bad seeds in the same FIELD with four kinds of soil and the Master allowed them to grow together.(matthew 13:24-30)
These little children are innocent until they HUMBLY accepted the WORD planted In them.
Two Kinds of Wisdom Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil. For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.James 3:13-16
“...clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.” peter 5:5
One of the seeds sown by the enemy is DECEIT,. The bible warns us of His deception, even as far as the time of Adam & Eve, his deception was made manifest.
But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. 2 Corinthians 11:3-4
...but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.
“...You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman.
Genesis 3:3-4
Eve disobeyed God's command because she believed the seed of deception that the evil one has sown in her heart. Remember that God created man according to their image of righteousness and holiness, but still, they were deceived.
...As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are DISOBEDIENT. ephesians 2:1-2
This is the reason why there are FALSE PROPHETS, PREACHERS AND TEACHERS.
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15
The bible said about these FALSE IMPOSTORS; "do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."
True prophets, preachers and teachers are obedient to their calling to preach unto all nations the Gospel and to teach obedience to God.
You will know them by their fruit…
The bible says:
You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is justified by what he does and NOT BY FAITH ALONE. James 2:22-24
What do we expect the deceiver would say about this?
While the bible speaks of obedience to God and the coming judgment and wrath of God, the deceiver will say…
“YOU WILL NOT SURELY DIE"
"ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED"
"YOU ALREADY "POSSESS" ETERNAL LIFE THE VERY MOMENT THAT YOU BELIEVE"
The book of Jude clearly speaks about them.
..Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. ephesians 5:6
And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. “And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. “Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come! If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell. Matthew 18:3-9
According to the verses above, little children can believe and they also can sin. They may grow and bear fruit, grow without fruit or they may not grow at all. Like soils where the seeds fell,as these little children grow, the seeds planted in them may be snatched out from them and some may fall away when troubles, persecutions, worries of this world and the deceitfulness of wealth chokes them.(matthew 13:1-23)
The enemy sowed bad seeds in the same FIELD with four kinds of soil and the Master allowed them to grow together.(matthew 13:24-30)
These little children are innocent until they HUMBLY accepted the WORD planted In them.
Two Kinds of Wisdom Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil. For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.James 3:13-16
“...clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.” peter 5:5
One of the seeds sown by the enemy is DECEIT,. The bible warns us of His deception, even as far as the time of Adam & Eve, his deception was made manifest.
But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. 2 Corinthians 11:3-4
...but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.
“...You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman.
Genesis 3:3-4
Eve disobeyed God's command because she believed the seed of deception that the evil one has sown in her heart. Remember that God created man according to their image of righteousness and holiness, but still, they were deceived.
...As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are DISOBEDIENT. ephesians 2:1-2
This is the reason why there are FALSE PROPHETS, PREACHERS AND TEACHERS.
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15
The bible said about these FALSE IMPOSTORS; "do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."
True prophets, preachers and teachers are obedient to their calling to preach unto all nations the Gospel and to teach obedience to God.
You will know them by their fruit…
The bible says:
You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is justified by what he does and NOT BY FAITH ALONE. James 2:22-24
What do we expect the deceiver would say about this?
While the bible speaks of obedience to God and the coming judgment and wrath of God, the deceiver will say…
“YOU WILL NOT SURELY DIE"
"ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED"
"YOU ALREADY "POSSESS" ETERNAL LIFE THE VERY MOMENT THAT YOU BELIEVE"
The book of Jude clearly speaks about them.
..Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. ephesians 5:6
All the drivel you post means nothing and I find it hilarious that the last book you quote to PROVE your working for, I keep myself saved blather is the book of JUDE which lists 3 false teachers that ALL false teachers are compared to.....
CAIN being first on the list....and he peddled works
Man you have a lot to UNLEARN and then a LOT to learn before you get anywhere near correct in your theology...