Does God want us to choose between law and grace?

If you are a law keeper then your Salvation DOES rest on it. You can't be under the curse and Saved simultaneously.

Obviously, if you place yourself under the curse then you don't know what the Blessing is. Because if you knew what your Blessing was you would never depart from it.

It would be utter ridiculousness for anyone to even suggest to you that you should depart from your Blessing and return to your curse.

Amen. It helps us understand baptism used as a cerimonial law when a new priests would come into that kind of purrfing cerimoiny like that of Aarons two Sons . It what the conversation was about in John 3:25. The Jews wondering why Jesus from the tribe of Judah was baptized by John from the tribe of Levi and now baptizing others . Therefore changing the matter of priesthood not depending on the flesh of any man but a kingdom of priest neither male nor female Jew nor gentile needed, but rather coming after Melchezedek. Our High Priests continually with out beginning or end of Spirit life as the Son of God.

Paul said we do not void out the law through faith, but we establish the law, and the law is spiritual, and holy, and just, and good, which is the laws of love, moral laws.

So we all have to live up to the law, and the law is spiritual, so if it is spiritual then we have to obey the law, for it is not a physical ordinance.

The Bible says a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, for they have crucified the flesh with the affections, and lusts, and show the ways of the Spirit, in which there are no ways of the flesh there.

And God will not allow the saints that are led of the Spirit to be tempted above measure, and will give them an escape from the temptation, so they can bear it.

So if a person hates sin, and does not want sin, then by the Spirit they can abstain from sin.

So there is no excuse.

The Bible says a Spirit led life is not under the law, for their sins are forgiven, and they are abstaining from sin, so the law cannot touch them for prosecution.

But if we do sin we can be forgiven, but we should have the proper attitude that we can abstain from sin, and sin does affect our relationship with God, and get rid of it and move forward.

For the Bible says if we willingly sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there is no more sacrifice for that sin, for if we hold unto sin then the blood of Christ cannot wash it away.

Which God said it is our sins that separate us from Him, and the Lord knows them that are His having this seal, for this is what seals the saints, and how they are led of the Spirit, that those that name the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

And awake to righteousness, and sin not, but some have not the knowledge of God.

Which there is no difference between the Old Testament, and the New Testament, when it comes to obeying God, for God gave the Jews the Old Testament, and if they did not obey they were cut off, and God gives us the New Testament, and if we do not obey then we will be cut off.

And this is to obey God, and to abstain from sins, for it is our sins that separate us from God, which He said be ye holy, for I am holy.

Which the Bible says that we should fear, for if God did not spare the Jews who did not obey, then He will also not spare you if you do not obey, for if you do not continue in the goodness of God then you will also be cut off, and the goodness of God is He hates sin, and does not want us to do it led by the Spirit.

And in another place God said do not be like the Jews that were disobedient in the wilderness, and do not depart from the living God by the deceitfulness of sins.

We have to live up to the law, the moral laws, laws of love, led by the Spirit, which we can abstain from sins if we hate sins, and do not want sins.

And there is no excuse.

The Bible says love works no ill towards their neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Which Paul said charity is not selfish, not arrogant, does not act wrongly, does not think an evil thought, does not rejoice in doing wrong, but rejoices in the truth of doing right led by the Spirit, and only goes by their needs, and helps people with their needs if possible, or helps them with whatever they need help in.

The Bible says charity, love in action, is greater than faith, and faith works by love, for it is love alone, and without love that has to be done by action, works, then faith does not count in your life.

Which we are saved by grace through faith, but if our love lacks then our faith does not count, then grace cannot be applied in our life.

Which Paul said he could have all faith so that he could remove mountains, but if he did not have charity then he is nothing.

And said some people think that living for God is money, and material things for their wants, from such withdraw yourselves, having food and clothing be content, for the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, which love is the fulfilling of the law.

And if they go by their wants then they have erred from the faith.

So Paul said if they do not have charity, love in action, works, for charity is greater than faith, then they have erred from the faith.

And James said if they do not have charity then their faith is dead.

And John said if they do not have charity then the love of God does not dwell in them, so do not love in word, and in tongue, but love in deed, works, and in truth.

So Paul, James, and John say the same thing.

We have to live up to the law which we can do by the Spirit if we hate sin, and do not want sin, and we have to have charity, works of love, for love is greater than faith, and if we go by our wants, and hold unto sin, then we lack love, then we lack faith, then we lack grace.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.

But we live in a time of lukewarm people claiming Christ that like to hear the Bible according to their lusts, and want to enjoy sin, and money, and material things for their wants.

So they love to hear the Bible according to what they want to believe about it, so they can enjoy sin, and money, and material things, and believe they can never stumble so they do not have to have that much responsibility put upon them.

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Instead of adhering to the strictness of the Bible that they have to conduct themselves in goodness, and abstain from sin, to be right with God.

The Lord knows them that are His having this seal, that they abstain from sin by the Spirit, and if they hold unto sin they are under the law, and the law can prosecute them.

A Spirit led life is not under the law, and a Spirit led life will not sin.

Which there are many that hold unto sin, as they enjoy sins and then say they are not under the law.

Look, Christ deduced to law to two and then to one.....and again I point out that the law's purpose is to condemn as guilty and point to the only cure -->be found covered by the blood, justified by the faith of Christ having had the righteousness of CHRIST imputed by FAITH WITHOUT THE DEEDS/WORKS of the law.......

Many cannot comprehend that CHRIST NEVER SINNED AND FULFILLED THE LEGAL requirements of the LAW and it is this APPLICATION AND IMPUTATION OF HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS that LEGALLY justifies us before GOD.....WE CANNOT get any more righteous than that which has already been imputed by faith.

I would disagree based upon the following

a. The HOLY SPIRT is what guides us (See John)

b. The law as a SCHOOL MASTER is for the LAWLESS and POINTS to CHRIST while proving guilt

c. I am fully aware of Psalm 119....an acrostic Psalm....and was written by a man UNDER THE LAW while having many wonderful truths woven throughout each 8 verse set that begins with the letters of the Hebrew Alphabet.

trying to understand the logic in this op is like

The law "keepers" love to be tooting their horns to let us all know they "keep" the law, don't they?

Paul was addressing the Jews who wanted gentiles to obey the ceremonial laws and was making the point that these laws were not to be obeyed. You can eat only kosher foods, be circumcised in the flesh, and always wash your hands before meals and not obey law. But there is scripture after scripture telling us to obey God's law, and law as it is through God's spirit.

Matt. 5: …18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven,but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Would you please show a post that states that the poster is obeying all of God's laws.

It seems to me you are not reading the posts or scripture.

Under which covenant did Jesus teach this passage?

If not one jot or one tittle of the the law will disappear until everything is accomplished then how could Paul tell anyone to not obey "the least" of these laws, such as ceremony? Such as clean and un-clean food? Such as circumcision?

Its because The Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled the entire Law. And that is why He can give us rest from it.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

No one who is a Christian teaches anyone to break commandments. That's what Paul tried to explain in Romans but NO legalists understand what he is saying.

Romans 3:20-22
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Now for the big finish

Romans 4:13-14
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:


Do you have to choose to be Righteous by faith or Righteous through your work at the law?

Do you contend that Righteousness before God is unimportant???

I already know you are not law keepers.

I know that those who are saved are Saved by Grace.

I know that those who have come to Christ have received Rest from their work at the law.

What is a "Christian" saying about Christ if they feel the need to stop resting and start working at the law again?

some of these people are not Christians.

Christians believe on and trust in Christ for salvation, because we know and understand that is only way ( I am the way....... )

others teach other ways. others cling to the old Covenant .

others keep trying to drag us back to Sinai.

we are to come to mt. Zion.

Salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works" is a "different" gospel which continues to be peddled by SDA's, Hebrew Roots and misguided teachers of the law in general.

I think they forget, under law you are continually day by day trying to meet the mark, and continually failing

We have rest because our salvation is no longer in question, the law could never save us anyway. Now instead of trying to save ourselves, we are free to focus on loving God and others, and take that focus on self

The law points to self, Christ and grace points to God and others

A testament is a legal document that gives legal rights, the latest one is effective cancelling all others. The new covenant is not a testament, it is a covenant with promises about a relationship. A new covenant builds on all former covenant but does not cancel. Did you think the new covenant is a testament?

God gave the ceremonial laws, God is spirit and God is good. The ceremonial laws, given by God, has to be good for man or God would not be God. The good of them cannot be cancelled. God replaced them with the Holy Sprit and that is the guidance we are to use to replace the guidance the Holy Spirit gave.

The only way the new covenant applies to these facts is that the guidance is now in hour hearts.

We are told that we can be circumcised, eat kosher, wash our hands before we eat and that does not make us obedient. We are not to brush our Lord off telling him no I won't do a thing you ask of me as you preach.

James explained what faith is, it has to do with accepting God's word. That means accepting God's instructions about faith, accepting what it does. That means accepting God's guidance with our day to day thoughts and actions.

You cannot rely on actions for salvation. You cannot tell the Lord no to all His guidance except what you mistake for faith.

You're inventing things to suit your belief. The two words are synonymous, as the quotations below demonstrate:

Hebrews 9:14-18 KJV
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.

NIV
How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant. In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood.

yes, we are saved through believing in Jesus.

now if the issue is how to go about keeping a particular feast, and I mean this next part with all gentleness,

if one continues going on about it day after day, I think one runs into danger

Titus 3: 9. but shun foolish questionings, genealogies, strife,

and disputes about the law

for they are unprofitable and vain. 10.

Avoid a factious poster

after a first and second warning;
11. knowing that such a one is perverted, and sins, being self-condemned.