Does God want us to choose between law and grace?

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gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
6,686
2,433
113
#82
All have sinned which means all are guilty and comdemned to death.
PRAISE GOD FOR JESUS. We are freed from sin and guilt by the blood of Jesus.

My question is..
Do people need the blood of Jesus today to free them from condemnation?
If yes..what is condemning us?
we are all born sinners, inheriting Adam's sin nature. ( all are dead in Adam ).

after Adam and Eve sinned, what did God Do.

he killed an animal and made skin coverings for them.

what is the Blood of Christ? atonement and covering.

so, there you go. no Law or Sabbath involved.
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
669
385
63
#83
Most postings say you must choose and scripture doesn't agree, most postings say that because they can't be perfect they should not try and scripture doesn't agree, most posting have a knee jerk reaction to law saying it won't save so get rid of it and scripture doesn't agree.

Yet the posters stand firm on these assumptions.

I would like to have the posters rethink these things, if they did I feel sure our very world would benefit.
I believe the purpose of having the law written in our hearts is so we never forget we need God's mercy and would desire mercy for others.

He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. Jn.8:7

Dear Lord Jesus, help us.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
1,332
149
63
#84
we are all born sinners, inheriting Adam's sin nature. ( all are dead in Adam ).

after Adam and Eve sinned, what did God Do.

he killed an animal and made skin coverings for them.

what is the Blood of Christ? atonement and covering.

so, there you go. no Law or Sabbath involved.
What did Adam do?
He sinned.
What determines sin?
The law.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
1,332
149
63
#85
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
1,332
149
63
#86
we are all born sinners, inheriting Adam's sin nature. ( all are dead in Adam ).

after Adam and Eve sinned, what did God Do.

he killed an animal and made skin coverings for them.

what is the Blood of Christ? atonement and covering.

so, there you go. no Law or Sabbath involved.
You didn't answer the question. I'll ask again
What determines what sin is today?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
6,686
2,433
113
#87
What did Adam do?
He sinned.
What determines sin?
The law.
Adam did not have the Torah.

Adam and Eve had 1 command, and we know what it was..

and they could not even do that, yet you and the other judeaizers think you can keep the entire Law of Moses well enough to be saved by it.

silliness.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
17,552
4,935
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#88
After the imputed righteousness is given by faith do we murder and steal and live in sin? Imparted righteousness is also given to us by Christ.
Don't you mean Imputed righteousness? (Romans 4:5-6)
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
1,332
149
63
#89
Adam did not have the Torah.

Adam and Eve had 1 command, and we know what it was..

and they could not even do that, yet you and the other judeaizers think you can keep the entire Law of Moses well enough to be saved by it.

silliness.
I Never said you can be saved by it.
You said "Adam and eve had 1 command", that is a law.

My point is that laws, commands, are what point out sin, they are Gods way of protecting us from sin.
Sin still exists today so a law or commands must exist.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
6,686
2,433
113
#91
You didn't answer the question. I'll ask again
What determines what sin is today?
to him who knows to do good and not do so, to him it is sin.

sin is way more than law and command keeping.

and gentiles were never
I Never said you can be saved by it.
You said "Adam and eve had 1 command", that is a law.

My point is that laws, commands, are what point out sin, they are Gods way of protecting us from sin.
Sin still exists today so a law or commands must exist.
right. sin exists today.

you see, when Jesus finished the Sermon on the Mount. he said " you shall be perfect .... ).

so, you see, the actual definition of sin is " missing the mark, falling short of a standard ".

so, if you fall short of the standard that Jesus laid out in that sermon , then you are in sin.

the Sermon on the Mount is telling us how to do good, as God is good.

so, knowing to do this and not doing so is sin.

no Sabbath keeping involved.
 
Mar 14, 2011
60,811
7,893
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#92
I Never said you can be saved by it.
You said "Adam and eve had 1 command", that is a law.

My point is that laws, commands, are what point out sin, they are Gods way of protecting us from sin.
Sin still exists today so a law or commands must exist.
Again. I ask, where in the law does it show us how to obay it?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
17,552
4,935
113
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#93
Imputed righteousness = justification.
Imparted righteousness = sanctification
I used to hear the term “imparted” righteousness when I was growing up in the Roman Catholic Church, yet the end result of their logic behind it was salvation by works. It is important to understand the difference between justification and sanctification.
 
T

Tim416

Guest
#94
Sin still exists today so a law or commands must exist.
And as you said, God puts the law in believers hearts so they may know what sin is. Therefore, if you do not know it is sin not to observe a set Saturday sabbath, either that law as written is not put in your heart by God, or you cannot be a Christian. It seems many do not understand this, for there are denominations who believe you must observe a Saturday sabbath, yet they accept as Christians people who do not do so, and have no conviction of sin by not doing so
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
1,332
149
63
#95
to him who knows to do good and not do so, to him it is sin.

sin is way more than law and command keeping.

and gentiles were never


right. sin exists today.

you see, when Jesus finished the Sermon on the Mount. he said " you shall be perfect .... ).

so, you see, the actual definition of sin is " missing the mark, falling short of a standard ".

so, if you fall short of the standard that Jesus laid out in that sermon , then you are in sin.

the Sermon on the Mount is telling us how to do good, as God is good.

so, knowing to do this and not doing so is sin.

no Sabbath keeping involved.
Know to do good?
This comes from studying the word and the moving of the Holy Spirit. Not just one sermon from Jesus, or we wouldn't need the rest of the bible. When Jesus was tempted He quoted scripture.
Matt 5:27,28 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

By studying the scriptures i come to know what is right and wrong for me.
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
As i have studied i have been convicted to obey the Sabbath because it is right.
Not to be saved but because it is the good thing to do.
That means it is sin for me to not obey.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Christ is my righteousness not the law. Christ perfectly obeyed the law because He followed the Spirits leading. I want to follow Jesus.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
1,332
149
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#96
God winks at our ignorance, i can't claim ignorance now that i know what scripture teaches
I can claim grace and i need to every day, but grace doesn't give me a license to sin.
 
T

Tim416

Guest
#97
Some say you are not justified by obeying the Ten Commandments, but you can only remain in a justified state if you do obey them! Paul states, in the present tense, to Christians who have the Holy Spirit, concerning the Ten Commandments: They are The letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation(2Cor3:6-9) Possibly Paul knew what was entailed in obeying the ten commandments, and many today do not.
 
T

Tim416

Guest
#98
If the law is in your heart and mind, you must know what that law is, for you cannot hide from it. So you must be conscious of sin if you transgress it. It is not a written down law, written in ink anymore for the believer, but a law written in the mind and placed on the heart by the Spirit of the living God:
You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 2Cor3:3
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
1,332
149
63
#99
Again. I ask, where in the law does it show us how to obay it?
I'll need time to find the verses but it is by faith, and love for God that we obey.
We can't do anything good ourselves but with Christs in us we can do all things. By the Spirit of God we are empowered to obey and overcome.