Not By Works

Give it a rest. We can see from the words of Christ in John 6:64 that He knew who it was who would betray him, and He associates him with those who did not believe from the beginning. This means that Judas never was a true believer in Christ.

Just as in Matthew 10:1, we see that Jesus gave His 12 disciples power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. Judas is included in the 12, yet Jesus referred to Judas as an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Him. (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11). Apparently, Judas may have believed that Jesus' name has the power to cast out devils, but did not truly believe in His name and become a child of God (John 1:12), but instead was the son of perdition (John 17:12).

Matthew 10:5-8 (KJV)

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Jesus sent the twelve to preach only to Israel. Matthew 10:5 - These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ It doesn't take a saved person to preach, 'the kingdom of heaven is at hand to Israel.'

I've heard modern day false teachers who were preachers mention the gospel during a sermon on TV and quote such verses as John 3:16 and Romans 1:16 to their viewing audience, which does not mean those false teachers (preachers) were saved either.

Judas never received the Holy Spirit (John 7:38-39). The power to cast out devils is in Jesus' name and not in the person. Just like so many other people who on that day will cry out, "Lord, Lord, did we not ..cast out devils in your name.." Just as with Judas, Jesus will declare to them, "I NEVER knew you.."

Judas was given authority over all devils......impossible for him to be full of the devil at this point, no?

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It wasn't until Judas went away and discussed with the chief priests and officers how he might betray Him to them that the Bible says Satan entered Judas. (Luke 22:3) Yet prior to that, Jesus said of Judas, "he is a devil!" (John 6:70-71) So your argument is moot.

Matthew 10 Jesus continues to instruct the 12 (Judas included) as to what to expect

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Matthew 10:17 - But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues. 18 You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; 20 for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. *JUDAS NEVER MADE IT THIS FAR.

this is why acts 1 says "Judas by transgression fell"

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Proverbs 24:16 - For a righteous man may fall seven times and rise again, (Judas was not a righteous man and did not rise again) But the wicked shall fall by calamity.

What does scripture say about Judas Iscariot?

1. Judas was an unbeliever and is a devil.....John 6:64-71
2. Judas was spiritually unclean......John 13:11
3. Judas is lost and is the son of perdition.........John 17:12
4. Judas was not kept by Jesus........John 17:12; 18:9
5. Judas was a traitor.....Luke 6:16
6. Judas was a betrayer.....Multiple verses.
7. Judas was a thief and did not care for the poor........John 12:6
8. Judas was guilty of a greater sin.......John 19:11
9. Judas was influenced by Satan to betray Jesus.......John 13:2
10. Judas was entered by Satan.......Luke 22:3
11. Judas kills himself......Matthew 27:5
12. Judas' habitation to be desolate......Acts 1:20, Psalm 69:25

Be sure to go back and re-read post #87,270 - https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/not-by-works.146296/page-4364#post-3855985

Post #87,290 - https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/not-by-works.146296/page-4365

Post #87,704 - https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/not-by-works.146296/page-4386#post-3857274

Scripture gives no compelling reason to believe that Judas was ever saved, but if you are more interested in promoting your agenda than you are in seriously considering the truth, then I cannot help you any further.

Well i see you even posted just an hour or so ago, yet sill have not admitted your error. So what was this post? A fancy way to try to defend yourself and shift the blame, and try to mock people?

You know people see right through you, your not fooling anyone, i thought when you first came in you had some hope, but as many expected, you fell just like all the ones before you

You have a habit of this trype of behavior. You should be ashamed, especially as a pastor who leads people, to act this way, does your whole church act this way?

Here, since you do not care, or think people will just forget it. Look at post 87,950

Then continue to lie about others not doing things they did

Dude i lost respect for you a few days ago

You come in demanding people look at passages, when they do not Give you the answer your looking for, you say they never answered you,

then to make it worse, when they give you a verse or two-you totally ignore them.

Your a hypocrite to the N’th degree

One more time

Did judas eat the bread from heaven Jesus came to offer? (It is the spirit who gives life, the words i speak are spirit and life)

Did Jesus not say BEFORE judas transgressed, that he was NOT CLEAN, while the other 11 were already completely clean? (10 Jesus said to him, “He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.” 11 For He knew who would betray Him; therefore He said, “You are not all clean.”)




Can you answer, or will you lie some more and try to attack others to take the focus off your own refusal to do what you demand others do?

Even the catholic church believes we are justified by faith alone.
I ask so many questions here that never get answered. For instance..
I asked another poster what he thought the cc believed about this but I never got a reply.

Ephesians 2:8-9
Everyone I know believes that we are justified by faith alone.

James says we are justified by faith and works,,,but the language wasn't settled yet then...what was determined by scholars is that he was really talking about sanctification because there are two steps to becoming Christian..one is Justfctn....God alone does this; and sanctfctn....It takes our cooperation. (the catholic church calls it progressive justification --- thus the little problem with words, as usual)
James 2:24

So, let's see where you go with this.
I'm in for justification by faith alone.

I am glad you say you listen to Jesus.
"sin us much more than command breaking"

Did Jesus say this? And if He did not, then why not?
Because man always either excuses evil behaviour or condemns that which is not evil as evil.

Some become so fascinated with self punishment they invent things to feel guilty about.
Washing ones hands, making sure you are dressed properly, performing certain ceremonies etc.

So those who know God, who have heard the words for their whole lives yet end up judging themselves
and others over issues which are just personal while excusing real theft, lying, sexual immorality, coveting,
selfish ambition, jealousy, greed, self indulgence.

So when people talk about real purity, freedom, grace, blamelessness, beauty out come the knives to chop
these folk down to size, "you are missing the mark you sinner, you evil doer....."

The accuser of the brethren could not have done better himself. And where is the proof? There is none,
except in their own minds, because no one can walk like Jesus and truly be clean.

That is real unbelief, and not believing Jesus can do and does do what He promised.
And why is there unbelief? Because guilt hangs in the room of these peoples minds and consciences everytime
they think or speak, and do not see they simply have not laid their burden down at the foot of the cross and accepted
they are forgiven and clean. That takes real faith and belief. That takes knowing the cross and Jesus.

Hey brother...
Matthew 27:54
When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, "Surely he was the Son of God!"
I would swing more to this centurion being saved then Judas , I mean at least this centurion had it in his heart to say " Surely he was the Son of God : , Judas had nothing but an evil heart...

Also I believe Jesus shows us how people can be soooo close to us pretending to be children of God , just like Judas deceived the disciples to the point they had no idea he was a traitor , we must be watchful at all times...xox...

We are called not to judge, but to listen, to let our hearts hear Gods words through His people.

It takes time and cleansing to have the purity of the Holy Spirit to give you sight to see anothers pain and
anger that is dressed in religious language. Or to see another putting words and motivations in someones
mouths which they are not speaking. Or to make someone angry and hurt them because they are denying
something the other holds dear.

One famous testimony is about someone seeing themselves crying out at Jesus saying crucify, crucify, because
we hurt and do not want resolution because we have lost faith that is matters or works.

Only in time will the truth become obvious. Taking the moat out of our own eyes can take a long time.

what I said is not meant to tear anyone down, or accuse.

the greek word for sin is hamartia. it means to fail, to miss the mark.

so, once again, we need to properly define the word before we say we do not do what the word means.

you do accept word definitions, do you not?

What is amazing is judas was told he was the son of man/son of god, and did not believe

This gentile did not even know, and proclaimed it, so people back then had to know things about God even gentiles.

I think we will be suprised when we reach eternity who is there and who is not,

And i agree with you 100% sis,

I think that is one of the majo problems, people see sin as certain acts, some worse than they others, so they can comvince themselves that wince they do not do these grave sins, they must be ok.

When god says we are all in the same boat.

Hats why the law cant make us righteous, it focuses on results of the sin nature, not the sin itself.

Just as I predicted....... im here again. Sad times.
Dont know if im institutionalized or what but civilian life is tough!

I could care less what you have to say...you have proven your inability to handle the word of God honorably because you have a false ax to grind....

Judas was a LOST man from DAY ONE and the fact that JESUS WHO IS WAS that WOULD NOT BELIEVE, NOT BE CLEAN and IS A DEVIL proves all I need to know....

AND

We have already PROVEN that PAUL said SOME preach out of contention for the SOLE purpose of ADDING to PAUL'S bonds

You can continue to be dishonest and argue your invalid point till the cows some home and it will NOT change the fact that HE DID NOT BELIEVE, WAS UNCLEAN and A DEVIL

DUDE, you will never be right with GOD until you can be HONEST with the word of GOD!

I think what you have to do is tag everyone whose opinion you want individually (but all in one post).
This thread moves to fast and I'll bet very few saw this....

HAHAHAHHAH God gave you another day to swing the sword.....Like Conan beyond the Black river......the Picts are rank and file deep brother.....

I know it is easier said than done sometimes, but please take joy from knowing you're still here because your Father in heaven has use for you yet.... there is work to be done my brother...

we will be able to spend forever with our loving and Holy Father when it is the right time....

may God bless you with some joy and peace and a clear vision of what He wants from you....


(for the record im also looking forward to going home my brother... my feet are killin me)

Do you know the difference between meant and what is being done?

I did not mean to shoot the man, the gun just went off when I pulled the trigger.
I did not mean to sin, my flesh did it, I was not involved.
I did not deny your words Jesus, I just did not accept my guilt and sin was forgiven.

If one believes God saves us as we are, and this person as they are enters heaven, then
how you are talking matches what you believe.

God expects change, repentance and walking righteously.
Denying this is denying Jesus.

If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.
Matt 19:21

We are called to be perfect, in the sense of Gods perfection not our sense of perfection.
Seeing who God accepted and blessed, His ways and choices are very different to ours.

If you want to know God, you need to really know Him and listen to His heart and desires.
And each step seems impossible, each challenge, impossible to go through, until you reach
the other side. It costs our lives, sacrifice, the cross. Are you willing to pay the price?

Loving ones enemy is a lesson we were taught by Jesus and must accept since He taught it.
Now,,, we could get into what this love would entail.
Certainly not FEELINGS of love for a person that has done us wrong or even harm.
But we could WILL to love them with God's love.

I often hear that we're to hate the sin and love the sinner.
I've never had to experience this,,,thank God....

However the bible does tell us that God hates sin and sinners.
I posted a whole page on this.

Here it is again:

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

GOD HATES ALL WORKERS OF INIQUITY Psalms 5:5

THE BIBLE SAYS GOD HATES SINNERS, NOT JUST THE SIN:

Leviticus 20:23: And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nations which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I ABHORRED THEM.

Leviticus 26:14-30: If ye will not hearken unto Me, and will not do all these commandments; And if ye shall despise My statutes, or if your soul abhor My judgments, so that ye will not do all My commandments, but that ye break My covenant, I also will do this to you... [send plagues, famine, drought, destructive armies, wild beasts who shall devour your children, pestilence, captivity in a cruel land...] And if ye will not for all this hearken unto Me, but walk contrary to Me; Then I WILL WALK CONTRARY TO YOU IN FURY... I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcasses upon the carcasses of your idols, and MY SOUL SHALL ABHOR YOU.

Deuteronomy 18:12 For all that do these things are an ABOMINATION TO THE LORD, and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

Deuteronomy 25:16: ...ALL THAT DO UNRIGHTEOUSLY ARE AN ABOMINATION UNTO THE LORD.

Deuteronomy 28:62-63: Because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the Lord thy God... it shall come to pass, that as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the Lord will the Lord will REJOICE OVER YOU TO DESTROY YOU, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it. (In Deuteronomy 27, 28, and 29, 124 CURSES are promised upon the Jews who refused to obey Gods commandments.)

Deuteronomy 32:16-20: They provoked Him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations they provoked Him to ANGER... And when the Lord saw it [people sacrificing to devils - v.17], HE ABHORRED THEM...

Psalm 2:4-9: The Lord that sits in the heavens shall LAUGH [at rebellious men]: the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall He speak unto them in His WRATH, and VEX THEM IN HIS SORE DISPLEASURE... [and Christ shall] break them with a rod of iron: Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potters vessel.

Psalm 5:5-6: The foolish shall not stand in Thy sight: THOU HATEST ALL WORKERS OF INIQUITY. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing (lies): THE LORD WILL ABHOR THE BLOODY AND DECEITFUL MAN.

Psalm 7:11-13: ...God is ANGRY with the wicked every day. If he turn not, He will whet His sword; He hath bent His bow, and made it ready. He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; He ordaineth His arrows against the persecutors.

Psalm 10:3: For the wicked... blesseth the covetous, WHOM THE LORD ABHORRETH.

Psalm 11:5-7: The Lord trieth the righteous: but THE WICKED AND HIM THAT LOVETH VIOLENCE HIS SOUL HATETH. Upon the wicked He shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup. For the righteous Lord loveth righteousness...

Psalm 50:22: Now consider this, ye that forget God, LEST I TEAR YOU IN PIECES, AND THERE BE NONE TO DELIVER.

Psalm 78:59: When God heard this He was wroth, and GREATLY ABHORRED ISRAEL.

Psalm 106:40: Therefore was the wrath of the Lord kindled against His people, insomuch that HE ABHORRED HIS OWN INHERITANCE.

Proverbs 3:32-33: For the froward is an ABOMINATION TO THE LORD... The CURSE OF THE LORD is in the house of the wicked: but He blesseth the habitation of the just.

Proverbs 6:16-19: These six things doth THE LORD HATE: yea, seven are AN ABOMINATION TO HIM... A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among the brethren.

Proverbs 16:5: Every one that is proud in heart is an ABOMINATION TO THE LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.

Proverbs 17:5: He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are ABOMINATION TO THE LORD.

Proverbs 22:14: The soul of strange women is a deep pit: HE THAT IS ABHORRED OF THE LORD shall fall therein.

Jeremiah 17:5: Thus saith the Lord, CURSED BE THE MAN that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.

Hosea 9:15: All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I HATED THEM: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of Mine house, I WILL LOVE THEM NO MORE...

Malachi 1:3-4: And I HATED ESAU, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness...thus saith the Lord of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and the people AGAINST WHOM THE LORD HATH INDIGNATION FOREVER.

Romans 9:13: As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but ESAU HAVE I HATED.

I Corinthians 16:22: If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be ANATHEMA MARANATHA [which means ACCURSED, THE LORD COMETH].

James 4:4: Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that friendship of the world is ENMITY (or HATRED) WITH GOD? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is an ENEMY OF GOD.

I Peter 3:12: For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and His ears are open to their prayers: but THE FACE OF THE LORD IS AGAINST THEM THAT DO EVIL.

Revelation 14:10-11: [Sinners] shall drink of the wine of the WRATH OF GOD, which is poured without mixture into the cup of HIS INDIGNATION; and he shall be TORMENTED WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE IN THE PRESENCE OF THE HOLY ANGELS, AND IN THE PRESENCE OF THE LAMB; And the smoke of their TORMENT ascendeth up for ever and ever; and they have NO REST DAY NOR NIGHT...

Dont worry i didnt sleep for that long

I woke up some hours ago, I just dont get to the computer straight away when I wake up. I usually like to workout / shower / eat first. Then I get on to read the news drink some coffee and talk on the forums here

He ignores the facts that the so called churches are filled with false prophets and preachers every SUNDAY, Wednesday and Saturday preaching hundreds of thousands of hours and several religions that "CAST out demons" regularly.....JESUS spoke of them....

MANY will before me in that day say, "lord, LORD have we not........done many wonderful works in your name, cast out demons in your name, prophesied in your name"

Jesus does not say they did not do these things, but he does say HE NEVER knew them......I.E. they were NEVER saved to begin with.....

They peddle the same thing the workers for, Cainologists, salvation losers and Pharisees peddle to this very day