A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

Sorry i can't help your soft underbelly. Everything that is said is an insult to you but everything you say is constructive and must be accepted. looks like pride.

Fallacy: circular reasoning.


Where have I claimed that? Please quote me.

It seems to me that your logic proofs do not really matter since the onus is on those who believe that glossolalia is "language" to prove that it is

The argument that "it is spiritual" and science does not apply is a cope out to me, since it can only come from someone who does not understand or accept the science much like flat earthers

I haven't set out to "prove" logically that glossolalia is language. I have, however, demonstrated that many of the arguments against it being a language are logically fallacious and therefore invalid.


That's an opinion followed by a double fallacy. The first is colloquially called "No True Scotsman" and the second is guilt by association.

arguments against it being a language

In my opinion, Jesus did mention the Ecstatic Utterance, that the modern charismatics want to call tongues don't you know:


Matthew 6:7 (HCSB)
7 When you pray, don’t babble like the idolaters, since they imagine they’ll be heard for their many words.

The word that translates to BABBLE in English, is actually: battalogeō.

The second half of the word is: words, which most would recognize. The batta part, unless you study the Mystery Religions, you may not be that familiar with. In the Mystery Religions, such as Apollo, the Priests would teach their Followers to speak in their counterfeit tongues this way: Say batta, batta, batta, over and over again and the gods will turn it into a heavenly language that they can only understand.

This is an absolute fact, the exact same fomula is used in SOME of the Pentecostal Churches in Louisiana (perhaps even in other places). ONLY they substitute JESUS, JESUS, JESUS, instead of BATTA. How do I know ? ? ? My wife as a teenager in a Pentecostal Church in Louisiana, was taught to pray in tongues this exact way:

Say JESUS, JESUS, JESUS, as fast as you can, and GOD will turn it into a heavenly language that only HE can understand.

That is the honest truth. And she said I always thought it was strange that we had to learn how to do a miracle.


Even in the Apocrypha it is forbidden:

Sirach 7:14 (NRSV)
14 Do not babble in the assembly of the elders, and do not repeat yourself when you pray.

Hahaha, the heathen use vain repetition just like we do, before I became a real Christian and while praying to Mary, we say without knowledge "ora pro nobis " Good point on batta since sound give sense our Tagalog "bata" meaning a child in the early age has very repetitious manner...

As an outsider to the U.S.A. I notice that much of Christian worship and doctrine is peculiar to America.
And this certainly applies to much of the charismatic Pentecostal churches I have seen on various TV channels and on YouTube.
BUT what you need to experience is Bible obedient disciplined Pentecost worship that is not out of order and preaches sound
doctrine. Fortunately, Australia is home to the largest Bible disciplined Pentecostal church around - no hoo-haa, non-charismatic,
no music based entertainment replacing preaching the word: and the gifts of tongues, interpretation and prophecy all conducted
decently in order according to scripture: !Corinthians 14.

Lucky for you we have an assembly in Fresno, California that also complies with the word of God and conducts itself properly:
feel free to check them out -

https://trffresno.org/

Nick

Mr. Dino....

Yes it is opinion, we are not in first year logic class....I have moved well beyond that.

the arguments about modern "ecstatic utterances" being a language is science not rules of logic and science says very clearly it is not language

We know what language is.

That teaching method in the Mystery Religion dates back at least to 400 BC, years before Christ. If you are using that method to learn to speak in Ecstatic Utterences, that you call tongues; in my opinion, you are intimating the Pagan tongues.

LOL..... I've had a very similar experience with some "Name it and Claim it Prosperity" friends of mine. They tried real hard to teach me how to "mouth" the words and said, "It's easy, all it takes is practice...." But the more I objected the more they accused me of "Harboring a spirit of hindrance."

I can appreciate that you aren't a beginner in logic. After all, you did manage to employ two fallacies in one sentence.

Whether any (or even every) particular "gloss" is found to have the scientific markers of language, while interesting in and of itself, is not proof either way for its genuineness as a manifestation of the spiritual gift. Scripture simply doesn't use modern scientific "approval" as a criteria. People are welcome to do so, if they choose. There's just no point in arguing over the length of the rope when you're not even using the same yardstick.

WOW, and they never even suspected that they themselves are in a FALSE DOCRTINE of tongues speaking. You can not learn to speak in tongues, that is a FALSE GIFT. If GOD INTENDED TO GIVE A PERSON GENUINE SPIRITUAL TONGUES, HE DOES THE MIRACLE THROUGH YOU.

Look at this verse:

Mark 16:20 (HCSB)
20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word by the accompanying signs.


See it, the LORD is the one WORKING THE MIRACLES including the MIRACLE OF TONGUES.

A yard stick is a yard stick my friend, they both measure yards

to hide behind the 'its spiritual" is a lazy argument

I am speaking to empirical data not philosophy, this is the piece you keep missing

It is not language, so what is it then?

You accuse me later of "missing" something, and yet here you seem to have missed my point completely.


Those are your words, not mine.


I'm not missing it at all. I understand perfectly well what you're saying. To draw a parallel, I'm saying that the door is green, and you're insisting that it smells like turmeric.


As I don't embrace the relevance of your yardstick, I don't accept the obligation of your question.

You accuse me later of "missing" something, and yet here you seem to have missed my point completely.

Wrong. I just recognize many of them in your arguments. Perhaps I'm the first person you've encountered who examines your reasoning this way.


I find the virgin birth, salvation and healing resoundingly logical. If you don't, that's not my issue, and it is no argument against logic per se.

What you may have missed is that I'm not arguing that logic should be applied to Scripture. I'm applying it to your arguments, and finding that many of them fail.


You argue for common sense as a test in one post, and later argue that logic is misplaced. That's inconsistent.

The Scripture also talks of the millennium, but that hasn't happened yet either. Again, flawed reasoning.

Fallacy: circular reasoning.


Where have I claimed that? Please quote me.

The Scripture also talks of the millennium, but that hasn't happened yet either. Again, flawed reasoning.

Because the Holy Spirit is working within one's heart and soul ... producing spiritual fruit and empowering the person praying in
the Spirit.

I can appreciate that you aren't a beginner in logic. After all, you did manage to employ two fallacies in one sentence.

Whether any (or even every) particular "gloss" is found to have the scientific markers of language, while interesting in and of itself, is not proof either way for its genuineness as a manifestation of the spiritual gift. Scripture simply doesn't use modern scientific "approval" as a criteria. People are welcome to do so, if they choose. There's just no point in arguing over the length of the rope when you're not even using the same yardstick.

I've always wanted to visit Australia! Every "ozzie" I've ever met has has truly been down to earth and no nonsense